Discussion: WikiLeaks

[DACrowe]

From what I understand the sex was consensual in at least one of the cases, but then the condom broke and she told him to stop, but he refused to and kept going.

That is hard to prove whether it is true or not. But anyone who thinks Assange is a saintly hero that is being persecuted is living in a fantasy where if he did indeed rape these women, their safety matters less than his politics. And that is what I find so disgusting about those automatically saying this is staged and the victims are just making it up because the American government is angry at Assange (never mind it is the Swedish government seeking the charges).

There might be political motivations for this and we'll see if it comes out in the trial. But Assange's defenders who paint him as a Dan Ellsberg (in which he is FAR, FAR FROM) would rather condemn possible rape victims than see the potential truth come out that they claim to love so much.

 

[Kelly]

From what I understand the sex was consensual in at least one of the cases, but then the condom broke and she told him to stop, but he refused to and kept going.

That is hard to prove whether it is true or not. But anyone who thinks Assange is a saintly hero that is being persecuted is living in a fantasy where if he did indeed rape these women, their safety matters less than his politics. And that is what I find so disgusting about those automatically saying this is staged and the victims are just making it up because the American government is angry at Assange (never mind it is the Swedish government seeking the charges).

There might be political motivations for this and we'll see if it comes out in the trial. But Assange's defenders who paint him as a Dan Ellsberg (in which he is FAR, FAR FROM) would rather condemn possible rape victims than see the potential truth come out that they claim to love so much.

Well said.....

 

[BlackLantern]

he's far from a saint, but it looks suspect when he starts releasing the really juicy stuff and *poof* legal issues start to pop up

it looks suspect, to me anyway

 

[Kelly]

It very possibly is, and it wouldn't surprise me....

But I think as DA does, the fact that people jump to that conclusion simply because they believe in what he is doing....is pretty sad.

 

[Darkness Falls]

i can't believe he's free... even with the monitor taped to his leg :/

 

[DACrowe]

he's far from a saint, but it looks suspect when he starts releasing the really juicy stuff and *poof* legal issues start to pop up

it looks suspect, to me anyway

I understand that and I'm a bit skeptical about it. But the charges are serious and the victims are not under the criteria of government stooges or those likely to make this up.

But I will wait for the facts to come out in the trial, because he may have indeed raped these women and I hate that so many jump online and call this a conspiracy and trash the victims without knowing the details of the case. We should wait and see. Sweden will have to prove its case, but I am not going to come down on favor of conviction or acquittal based on my own personal political views of Assange, as so many seem to be doing.

 

[doih]

How in the world can you seperate rape into levels of severity?

It might be separated by things like....

1. Was a weapon involved...
2. Severity of injuries...

Which is what I think that means....but yeah, if it really is using that terminology, very....very......very strange.

To be fair, in most places there's 'levels' of charges for sexual assault, it's just that when translated into English from Swedish the terminology starts lending itself to jokes.

Here for example, there's aggravated sexual assault, which is basically violent rape. The problem of course is the 'less severe' category, which makes up the largest number of rape charges in most developed countries.

Do you support Jullian Assange? Then it's less severe rape.

Are you against Jullian Assange? Then it's severe rape.

Are you neutral? Then it's regular rape.

Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Lady gets her rocks off, but doesn't want to reciprocate she yells "RAPE!" and the law says she's justified?

Sounds like a spot I wouldn't want to be in....

The sad thing is that the breakdown of opinion Spidey-Bat described and the scenario LOBO described happens way too often in real life.

 

[Paroxysm]

From what I understand the sex was consensual in at least one of the cases, but then the condom broke and she told him to stop, but he refused to and kept going.

That is hard to prove whether it is true or not. But anyone who thinks Assange is a saintly hero that is being persecuted is living in a fantasy where if he did indeed rape these women, their safety matters less than his politics. And that is what I find so disgusting about those automatically saying this is staged and the victims are just making it up because the American government is angry at Assange (never mind it is the Swedish government seeking the charges).

There might be political motivations for this and we'll see if it comes out in the trial. But Assange's defenders who paint him as a Dan Ellsberg (in which he is FAR, FAR FROM) would rather condemn possible rape victims than see the potential truth come out that they claim to love so much.

Both women boasted of their celebrity connection to Assange after the "rapes".

The Swedish authorities have the evidence, tweets from one woman and SMS texts from another boasting of their "score" after the "crimes." The woman who tweeted unsuccessfully tried to delete her tweets from her account, this should be a matter of grave concern and her even publishing a guide on the internet on how to get revenge on cheating boyfriends ever graver. The exact content of mobile phone texts is not yet known but their bragging has been confirmed by Swedish prosecutors.

Neither women complained to the police but rather sought advice together, collaborated and tainted each other's evidence. Their SMS texts to each other even show a plan to contact a Swedish newspaper beforehand in order to maximise the damage to Assange.

 

[Kelly]

To be fair, in most places there's 'levels' of charges for sexual assault, it's just that when translated into English from Swedish the terminology starts lending itself to jokes.

Here for example, there's aggravated sexual assault, which is basically violent rape. The problem of course is the 'less severe' category, which makes up the largest number of rape charges in most developed countries.

Which is why I posted what I did....but ok.

 

[Kelly]

Both women boasted of their celebrity connection to Assange after the "rapes".

The Swedish authorities have the evidence, tweets from one woman and SMS texts from another boasting of their "score" after the "crimes." The woman who tweeted unsuccessfully tried to delete her tweets from her account, this should be a matter of grave concern and her even publishing a guide on the internet on how to get revenge on cheating boyfriends ever graver. The exact content of mobile phone texts is not yet known but their bragging has been confirmed by Swedish prosecutors.

Neither women complained to the police but rather sought advice together, collaborated and tainted each other's evidence. Their SMS texts to each other even show a plan to contact a Swedish newspaper beforehand in order to maximise the damage to Assange.

And the courts, powers that be will take all of that into consideration....as they should.

 

[Timstuff]

No-one is above the law. If these women are lying, the courts will find out, just like if Assange is guilty, he should be brought to justice. He has done nothing to earn special treatment by the court, and likewise, these women will not get special treatment just because of who they are accusing. It all comes down to who is telling the truth and who is lying, and that's what the courts are there to decide. If he really did rape these women, he goes to jail as soon as they catch him. And if turns out that these women lied, then the whole world knows that they consensually had sex with this man:

Whoever is the real villain here, they have a lot to lose.

 

[Paradoxium]

WikiLeaks: Cuba banned Sicko for depicting 'mythical' healthcare system

 

[Kelly]

LMAO.....Castro didn't want his people to know they had a health care system....lol

 

[Franklin Richards]

¡Viva WikiLeaks! Sicko Was Not Banned in Cuba

 

[Paroxysm]

"the only way a Cuban can get access to the hospital is through a bribe or contacts inside the hospital administration. "Cubans are reportedly very resentful that the best hospital in Havana is 'off-limits' to them," the memo reveals."

 

[Paradoxium]

Well Michael Moore is saying not so to this debacle on his blog.

 

[Paradoxium]

Full quote context from Paroxysm

"The cable describes a visit made by the FSHP to the Hermanos Ameijeiras hospital in October 2007. Built in 1982, the newly renovated hospital was used in Michael Moore's film as evidence of the high-quality of healthcare available to all Cubans.

But according to the FSHP, the only way a Cuban can get access to the hospital is through a bribe or contacts inside the hospital administration. "Cubans are reportedly very resentful that the best hospital in Havana is 'off-limits' to them," the memo reveals."

It sounds like the hospital showcased was catered for the fatcats and bureaucrats instead of the average person.

FSHP - http://www.fshp.org/

 

[Franklin Richards]

Except all that is falsified.

 

[Paradoxium]

I was looking up more info on this, and found this video clip (old 20/20)

 

[Paradoxium]

Except all that is falsified.

The only thing Moore said was fabricated was it was not shown in Cuba. Assuming he is correct, it doesn't change stuff about hospitals for the Mega Awesome Elite Bourgeois. The running joke was, Moore's disingenuous take did not meet the truthiness propaganda standards of Cuba. You could argue it does now... yay?

 

[Franklin Richards]

Why would I believe anything that came out of that report?

Sicko Was Not Banned in Cuba

 

[Paradoxium]

Care of Reason.com

I may have found the origins of the error. The dissident Cuban doctor Darsi Ferrer Ramírez wrote an editorial in 2007 predicting that the government would censor the film. Some writers outside Cuba misread this as a statement that the film had been banned. I suspect that the author of the cable then heard that version of the story and passed it along.

 

[8Diagrams(WU)]

This puts the credibility of the cables on the floor.

 

[BlackLantern]

indeed

 

[Paroxysm]

No, not in the slightest.