Disney's Frozen

[Liam_H]

Thanks.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I liked Tangled more, but this movie was really good. There are a few Disney movies that I rank above it, though.

 

[Quasimod0]

Shorter rebuttal.

Long form:
In addition to "The Bells of Notre Dame", Hunchback has the epic "Hellfire", the best villain song ever (in my opinion), as well as the great crowd number "Topsy Turvy", the fairly good (even if derivative) "Out There", and "God Help the Outcasts". I think it's actually one of Menken's strongest and most interesting works, less the Gargoyles number.

Hercules' gospel-inspired score is a ton of fun, especially "Zero to Hero" and "I Won't Say I'm In Love".

Mulan has fewer songs, but "I'll Make A Man Out of You", "A Girl Worth Fighting For", "Reflection", "Honour to Us All" are all strong numbers to me.

I agree with all of this. I thought the songs in the hunchback were really strong, and "I'll make a man out of you". Is one of my favorite disney songs

 

[X Knight]

Just got back from seeing this.

Wow! Just.......Wow!! This film was PERFECT!! I loved every minute of it. I loved all of the songs. The story was excellent and the characters were relatable and outstanding!

Let It Go was the highlight sequence for me. And that moment when Elsa lets down her hair.........

Overall, I give it a 10/10.

 

[def28]

Shorter rebuttal.

Long form:
In addition to "The Bells of Notre Dame", Hunchback has the epic "Hellfire", the best villain song ever (in my opinion), as well as the great crowd number "Topsy Turvy", the fairly good (even if derivative) "Out There", and "God Help the Outcasts". I think it's actually one of Menken's strongest and most interesting works, less the Gargoyles number.

Yeah, Hunchback is awesome. The intro with Bells and Hellfire is some of the most powerful stuff Disney has put out imo. Such a great film, with the cruelest villain I've seen in a Disney animated flick.

Frozen's been one of my least favorite soundtracks tbh. But I guess this all comes down to musical taste. Great film regardless and I did like a few of the main tracks.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

If we are comparing it musically to The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin or The Lion King, I'd agree. However, I think it is musically far above Hercules, Mulan and Hunchback of Notre Dame. Notre Dame does have that epic "Bells" theme from the beginning, but the rest of the movie is Menken's most forgettable effort, IMO.

You might be right about Pocahontas. I don't care for that movie, but the music is amazing.

I agree that the trolls were the weakest part of this movie.

I rank all of those ahead of Frozen when it comes to music. I also found them to be better movies. That may change with a few more watches of Frozen. I hope they get Alan Menken on the next musical Disney movie they have.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I have to say that while watching the movie, I saw the [BLACKOUT]Prince's betrayal [/BLACKOUT]coming for some reason. I also think that revelation kind of takes away from [BLACKOUT]the "love song" he does with Anna, since you know he isn't being genuine. That's the first Disney love song that I've heard where one of the partners wasn't being genuine. That's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just different for a Disney flick.[/BLACKOUT]

And maybe I missed it being explained in the movie, but [BLACKOUT]where were Kristoff's parents? I saw him cutting the ice in the beginning of the movie as a kid with the men, but no parents. So to the men, was he just a random kid with a reindeer that came out of nowhere and started cutting ice with them? I want to know where he was living and who he was staying with. It seems like the trolls just adopted him and that was that. There were no objections from Kristoff or anything.[/BLACKOUT]

I really liked the short, though I grew up watching Goof Troop, so seeing Pete cast as such a clear villain always jars me a bit, even though that's been his primary character function through most of his history (Mickey's Christmas Carol was especially creepy for that same reason).

The movie was terrific, with the exception that the music still hasn't recaptured the glory of the 1990s -- Hercules, Mulan, The Hunchback of Notre Dame and Pocahontas all have superb soundtracks, even though you can argue that this or Tangled have better storytelling/characterization. The new wave of 00s animated musicals generally manages one or two really strong songs (your "Friends on the Other Side" or "I See The Light"), the rest being functional (there's also the troll song, which I would have cut). Here, "Let It Go" is head and shoulders above everything else, and will probably make Robert Lopez an EGOT winner.

Idina Menzel's presence makes it hard not to think of Wicked throughout. Also, I don't get why you would cast Jonathan Groff and not give him any real songs.

Also I hope they exterminated those trolls afterward, because seriously, everything bad that happened in this movie was the result of their stupid advice.

The "Get a Horse" short was okay. I don't see what all the hubbub was about, though. Didn't really leave a lasting impression on me. I liked the troll song, lol. What stupid advice did the trolls give?

And I think Tangled had that great Disney movies 90's feel to its music. I See the Light, When Will My Life Begin?(and the reprise), I've Got a Dream, Mother Knows Best. All great songs that brought me back to the Renaissance.

 

[CaptainCanada]

What stupid advice did the trolls give?

All of the things the Elsa's parents do that the movie ultimately shows to be counterproductive are things the trolls told them to do:

- Elsa must conceal her powers at all costs over else everybody will hate her? Trolls told them that.
- Anna should never be told about this, under any circumstances? Kind of hard to draw any other conclusion from the trolls' decision to wipe her memory.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

All of the things the Elsa's parents do that the movie ultimately shows to be counterproductive are things the trolls told them to do:

- Elsa must conceal her powers at all costs over else everybody will hate her? Trolls told them that.
- Anna should never be told about this, under any circumstances? Kind of hard to draw any other conclusion from the trolls' decision to wipe her memory.

Ohh, okay. I forgot that, and thought her parents were the ones who wanted her to conceal her powers. The trolls were the biggest problem with the movie. They either should have been cut out, or improved upon before the movie's release. Oh well, too late now. Not a deal breaker, by any means.

I don't think they said everyone would hate Elsa. They just said not to use her powers so no one else would get hurt like her sister. The problem was that they didn't understand her powers that much to give her any truly valuable knowledge.

 

[CaptainCanada]

I don't think they said everyone would hate Elsa.

One of the little visuals that troll wizard conjures is Elsa surrounded by other people acting horrified and angry.

 

[A Dollar Short]

The beginning had me rolling my eyes through the songs, most just seemed unnecessary and forced. The film definitely picks up from there with Olaf, Kristoff, and Sven. Overall, I prefer Tangled by a little, but it's miles ahead of Wreck it Ralph.

8/10

 

[flickchick85]

I definitely preferred this over Tangled (which I did love). In the contemporary Disney canon, I'd rate it well below the big 4 "Renaissance" films (TLM, B&tB, Aladdin, TLK), but still above all the post-TLK stuff, including Hunchback, Hercules, Pocahontas, Tarzan, etc., as well as anything Disney Animation has produced this decade.

 

[DACrowe]

Shorter rebuttal.

Long form:
In addition to "The Bells of Notre Dame", Hunchback has the epic "Hellfire", the best villain song ever (in my opinion), as well as the great crowd number "Topsy Turvy", the fairly good (even if derivative) "Out There", and "God Help the Outcasts". I think it's actually one of Menken's strongest and most interesting works, less the Gargoyles number.

Hercules' gospel-inspired score is a ton of fun, especially "Zero to Hero" and "I Won't Say I'm In Love".

Mulan has fewer songs, but "I'll Make A Man Out of You", "A Girl Worth Fighting For", "Reflection", "Honour to Us All" are all strong numbers to me.

"Bells of Saint John" and "Hellfire" are great (though I would not say Hellfire in terms of musicality or lyrics is better than "Poor Unfortunate Souls," "Gaston" or "Be Prepared," but it is certainly their most ambitiously thematic song). But the rest of the songs are pretty generic. "Out There" is the dull version of "Part of Your World" and "God Help the Outcasts" is absolutely forgettable, IMO.

Hercules was alright, but the music felt like Menken was trying to find a new way to reinvent a form he wasn't that interested in. Kind of how Tangled was him playing with vintage folk guitar. It isn't in the ballpark of his "big musicals" from the early '90s, because he was trying something intentionally more slight to be different.

I like Mulan, but I think Frozen's two showstoppers are just as good as "Be A Man." The rest of Mulan was really generic to me.

 

[DACrowe]

I rank all of those ahead of Frozen when it comes to music. I also found them to be better movies. That may change with a few more watches of Frozen. I hope they get Alan Menken on the next musical Disney movie they have.

Agreed on all the bolded ones (save for Hercules).

Menken I feel is a bit tired of doing Disney musicals. I enjoyed Hercules, Tangled and Enchanted, but they were all intentionally moving away from that big Broadway sound he had with Ashman. I think that is why he left this one.

 

[X Knight]

for me, it's kind of hard to compare Frozen to Tangled.

I loved and adored both movies. And I can't say which I liked more, at least not after 1 viewing of Frozen, as the 2 are different films.

Tangled was a more straightforward love story between Rapunzel and Flynn.

Frozen wasn't really a love story, at least not in the traditional sense. The core focus was on the love/bond between the sisters. Anna's romance with Kristoff was secondary.

I will say this though. Maybe because they are 3d animated characters, but I feel that the 3d princesses ( Rapunzel, Anna, and Elsa ) feel the most "real" to me. They feel, well, three dimensional........lol

They feel way more relatable, if that makes sense.

Oh, and Anna certainly gives Rapunzel the run for her money as the most adorable princess.........lol.

And I also appreciated the fact that Kristoff, for all intents and purposes ( and despite what trolls said ), was presented as fairly "normal." He wasn't particularly flawed. He wasn't a reformed thief/scoundrel like Flynn. He didn't help Anna for some ulterior motive ( well sort of, but it wasn't purely selfish ). In fact he was portrayed as a hard working, noble, selfless, "blue collar" kind of guy who also has a sweet, sensitive, caring side to him.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

Agreed on all the bolded ones (save for Hercules).

Menken I feel is a bit tired of doing Disney musicals. I enjoyed Hercules, Tangled and Enchanted, but they were all intentionally moving away from that big Broadway sound he had with Ashman. I think that is why he left this one.

Menken signed a contract with Disney to do more of their movies starting with Tangled, so if Disney wanted him do this one he would have had to do it. I just think Disney wants to spread the movies that Menken does out, since he's only contracted to do a certain amount of films.

Tangled definitely had that broadway feel to me, though.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

One of the little visuals that troll wizard conjures is Elsa surrounded by other people acting horrified and angry.

But people were horrified and angry when her powers were finally revealed. That wasn't the trolls' fault.

 

[X Knight]

Menken signed a contract with Disney to do more of their movies starting with Tangled, so if Disney wanted him do this one he would have had to do it. I just think Disney wants to spread the movies that Menken does out, since he's only contracted to do a certain amount of films.

Tangled definitely had that broadway feel to me, though.

hmmm.......for me, Tangled's music had more of a "folk songy" vibe to it, whereas Frozen definitely had a broadway feel.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

hmmm.......for me, Tangled's music had more of a "folk songy" vibe to it, whereas Frozen definitely had a broadway feel.

The only time I got that feeling in Tangled was when they were dancing around in the town. Even though there wasn't any singing involved. I also got a "folk songy" vibe at the beginning of Frozen when those men were cutting the ice.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

So, I guess no one has anything to say about this? It's been kind of irking me, because I've been thinking about it. lol

And maybe I missed it being explained in the movie, but [BLACKOUT]where were Kristoff's parents? I saw him cutting the ice in the beginning of the movie as a kid with the men, but no parents. So to the men, was he just a random kid with a reindeer that came out of nowhere and started cutting ice with them? I want to know where he was living and who he was staying with. It seems like the trolls just adopted him and that was that. There were no objections from Kristoff or anything.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[X Knight]

The only time I got that feeling in Tangled was when they were dancing around in the town. Even though there wasn't any singing involved. I also got a "folk songy" vibe at the beginning of Frozen when those men were cutting the ice.

I think what gave me the folk songy vibe in Tangled was the use of the guitars in the songs. like right at the beginning of When Will My Life Begin or in I See The Light. at least that's how I interpret folk songy.

And yes, Frozen Heart ( the ice cutter song ) did have a very "gypsy/folk song" vibe to it.

So, I guess no one has anything to say about this? It's been kind of irking me, because I've been thinking about it. lol

that's a good point.

Spoiler

I just assumed he was an orphan. And at the beginning, he and Sven were training to be ice pickers or whatever they were.

However, that could have been addressed more clearly, and it could have been something he and Anna discussed during their journey. Like, she mentions that she lost her parents at sea, and he could have said he lost his parents when he was young. something to give them more of a rapport/connection.

Or, maybe, Kristoff didn't lose his parents. Maybe he just spent a lot of time hanging out with the trolls and they sort of became a second family to him. I don't remember but did he say specifically that the trolls took him in?

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I think what gave me the folk songy vibe in Tangled was the use of the guitars in the songs. like right at the beginning of When Will My Life Begin or in I See The Light. at least that's how interpret folk songy.

And yes, Frozen Heart did have a very "gypsy/folk song" vibe to it.



that's a good point.

Spoiler

I just assumed he was an orphan. However, that could have been addressed more clearly, and it could have been something he and Anna discussed during their journey. Like, she mentions that she lost her parents at sea, and he could have said he lost his parents when he was young. something to give them more of a rapport/connection.

His parents got frozen in ice, and he was trying to chop through the ice to get to them but it was too thick and deep. That's why he's an ice chopper now.

But seriously, yeah, I would have very much preferred him sharing that story with Anna. Would've added more depth to his character, as well.

And now I understand what you mean. Yeah, the acoustics in Tangled definitely did have that vibe.

 

[Primal Slayer]

It was really good. Though it maybe had to many songs for my liking, I enjoyed all of them. And so happy they didnt go with the usual true love kiss.

But I wish that Disney hadnt taken out soooo many elements of the original fairytale.

 

[X Knight]

His parents got frozen in ice, and he was trying to chop through the ice to get to them but it was too thick and deep. That's why he's an ice chopper now.

But seriously, yeah, I would have very much preferred him sharing that story with Elsa. Would've added more depth to his character, as well.

And now I understand what you mean. Yeah, the acoustics in Tangled definitely did have that vibe.

You mean Anna.

Don't think he would have gotten very far communicating with Elsa.........

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

You mean Anna.

Don't think he would have gotten very far communicating with Elsa.........

Oh wow, don't know why I said Elsa. It's not like it's hard to tell the sisters apart. My bad.