Do you accept the theory of evolution?

[Thundercrack85]

Tell us more...

Oh that's just an arbitrary number I chose. I don't think you can really count it, since it nearly happened several times, during conflicts that lasted for some time. For example, during the Suez Crisis, the Berlin Crisis (the 1961 one) the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Yom Kippur War there were actually numerous "close calls".

And then there were the numerous communication failures which nearly resulted in nuclear war, one of them was apparently the closest call ever (even more so than the Cuban Missile Crisis).

Not mentioning the Sino-Soviet border conflict, which both sides now say was incredibly close to turning into a nuclear war. Though that probably wouldn't have been a nuclear holocaust.

1983 was another busy year... I could go on.

 

[Asteroid-Man]

I find it funny how some atheists (and I say this as one) can't see that they act exactly like the Bible-thumpers they hate so much.

Both are dogmatic and almost unbelievably arrogant and see it as their self-appointed mission to "save" everyone around them from themselves, and if you don't believe what they believe, you're an idiot and they talk down to you like a small child.

They're both equally ignorant and obnoxious.

The funny thing is, I'm always the one mediating arguments between my friends on both sides, so it pisses me off so much when someone forces me to tell my opinion and then ****s all over it. It's disrespectful and immature.

 

[DBryan]

I find it funny how some atheists (and I say this as one) can't see that they act exactly like the Bible-thumpers they hate so much.

Both are dogmatic and almost unbelievably arrogant and see it as their self-appointed mission to "save" everyone around them from themselves, and if you don't believe what they believe, you're an idiot and they talk down to you like a small child.

They're both equally ignorant and obnoxious.

The funny thing is, I'm always the one mediating arguments between my friends on both sides, so it pisses me off so much when someone forces me to tell my opinion and then ****s all over it. It's disrespectful and immature.

It's no more disrespectful than saying "I don't accept that unicorns exist and the current evidence does not support that unicorns exist".

You wouldn't tell a person that rejects the existence of unicorns that they are 'dogmatic'.

Apparently, setting up a reasonable method of measuring what reality is, is dogmatic, disrespectful, and immature.

The current evidence says that we are apes. It does not matter that your opinion is that we have souls and cannot be apes. We have no way of measuring what a soul even is. So why assert it exists at all. Why ignore empirical, testable, falsifiable data in the favour of an opinion that is unfalsifiable, that you have absolutely no way of demonstrating?

You're asking me to stop for the car that isn't there and trying to pretend that that is as valid and equal as scientific method. It is not, no matter how strong your opinion is on it.

That someone can be offended by having this pointed out blows my mind.

We do not exist in a world in which ALL opinions are equal.

The opinion that the earth is flat is NOT equal to the fact that the earth is round.

This is really one of my biggest pet peeves - when I see people trying to pretend that opinions are equal, no matter the evidence. And that includes when it comes from other atheists.

If anyone can point out where my reasoning is wrong, without just saying I'm being 'dogmatic', please do so.

 

[DBryan]

Anytime - anytime at all that you want to have an honest and polite discussion on this, we can have it in the atheism thread.

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=381043

 

[SuperFerret]

Goddamn, DBryan makin' with the jokes here. Polite conversation in the atheism thread! I'm rollin' right now. Rollin'.

Asteroid-Man, if I offended you, I apologize, but the facts state that humans descend from apes and therefore are a branch of that tree. I disagree with you on how we're different also. I don't believe anything suggesting that we're different that doesn't stem from us being a different species, and I have always held the belief that animals have souls. There is nothing uniquely human in our existence, so I don't see why souls would be either.

 

[The Question]

Goddamn, DBryan makin' with the jokes here. Polite conversation in the atheism thread! I'm rollin' right now. Rollin'.

Asteroid-Man, if I offended you, I apologize, but the facts state that humans descend from apes and therefore are a branch of that tree. I disagree with you on how we're different also. I don't believe anything suggesting that we're different that doesn't stem from us being a different species, and I have always held the belief that animals have souls. There is nothing uniquely human in our existence, so I don't see why souls would be either.

Well, cars. I don't think any other animals make cars.

 

[wampa1]

I find it funny how some atheists (and I say this as one) can't see that they act exactly like the Bible-thumpers they hate so much.

Who says we don't? Wouldn't you rather someone was trying to drum the truth into someone as opposed to superstitious magical hokum?

 

[SuperFerret]

Well, cars. I don't think any other animals make cars.

That's just tool use (seen in other species) taken to 11 by our more advanced brains, opposable thumbs, and intricate social structure (the combination of which stems from us being our own species, though each individual attribute is present in other species.)

Who says we don't? Wouldn't you rather someone was trying to drum the truth into someone as opposed to superstitious magical hokum?

I'd rather people be respectful of each other's way of thinking.

 

[DBryan]

I think respect for other beliefs can only go so far. It shouldn't automatically be given.

 

[wampa1]

I'd rather people be respectful of each other's way of thinking.

Please respect my opinion that drumming the truth into others is infinitely more preferable than espousing nonsense.

 

[Schlosser85]

Who says we don't? Wouldn't you rather someone was trying to drum the truth into someone as opposed to superstitious magical hokum?

Because that doesn't give you leave to talk down to people like they're idiots and not extend the basic respect that everyone is entitled to, whether you think their beliefs are wrong or not.

And for the record, anyone who tries to "drum" their beliefs into me, no matter what they are, whether I agree with them or not, can kindly **** and get out of my face.

 

[wampa1]

Because that doesn't give you leave to talk down to people like they're idiots and not extend the basic respect that everyone is entitled to, whether you think their beliefs are wrong or not.

And for the record, anyone who tries to "drum" their beliefs into me, no matter what they are, whether I agree with them or not, can kindly **** and get out of my face.

I think you'll find they're entitled to basic respect.

 

[Schlosser85]

I'll extend basic respect to people who extend it to me. See how that works? It's like an adult conversation.

 

[SuperFerret]

Oh, I do, but I actually agree with DBryan for once. Opinions are like a sword. Feel free to have one and show it off from time to time, but don't go around running people through with it. That's the line.

And if you do decide to use that sword in an offensive manner, don't be surprised if someone decides to come shut you down.

 

[DBryan]

Well, what are we talking about when we're talking about drumming beliefs into each other?

This is a discussion on whether or not people accept the theory of evolution.

When someone says, "I don't think we're apes because animals don't have souls", that's... I mean...

Why should that be taken as equally valid as empirical evidence that shows we are apes?

 

[Schlosser85]

Oh, I do, but I actually agree with DBryan for once. Opinions are like a sword. Feel free to have one and show it off from time to time, but don't go around running people through with it. That's the line.

And if you do decide to use that sword in an offensive manner, don't be surprised if someone decides to come shut you down.

This is what I was essentially trying to say put more articulately.

There is a difference between stating your beliefs and debating them with others and trying to thump someone upside the head with them.

 

[Schlosser85]

It's not the disagreement, it's the rudeness and condescension that's put into it...

 

[wampa1]

When someone says, "I don't think we're apes because animals don't have souls", that's... I mean...

Why should that be taken as equally valid as empirical evidence that shows we are apes?

Presumably because it flies in the face of years of rigorous empirical scientific research.

 

[Schlosser85]

As has already been pointed out to you, there is a line between disagreeing with someone's opinion and talking to them like a small child.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I think the religious demographic has claimed the lion's share of arrogant and condescending behavior.

 

[Schlosser85]

The militant atheists act exactly the same as the Bible-thumpers, they're just amusingly oblivious to it. One is every bit as arrogant and condescending as the other.

And idiots like you lump every religious person in with the Bible-thumpers, when there are plenty of religious people who are not arrogant or condescending.

 

[SuperFerret]

Well, what are we talking about when we're talking about drumming beliefs into each other?

This is a discussion on whether or not people accept the theory of evolution.

When someone says, "I don't think we're apes because animals don't have souls", that's... I mean...

Why should that be taken as equally valid as empirical evidence that shows we are apes?

Nobody says you have to take it as being equally valid. It's not about validity at all. It's about respect. It's about the difference between having the tone of "I respectfully disagree, and here's why I do" and having the tone of "You're stupid for thinking that and here's why".

 

[wampa1]

As has already been pointed out to you, there is a line between disagreeing with someone's opinion and talking to them like a small child.

I'd rather talk to small children to be honest. At least there's a chance they'll grow out of believing in the ridiculous.

 

[Franklin Richards]

If an 80% zombie ate my brain, I'd still be dead.

 

[Schlosser85]

Talking to you is much the same as talking to a small child, so I don't see the need.