DTL Season 5-Week 2 (Set 4)

[DTL Commish]

The rules:
This is one of four threads containing matches.
The threads will be in use for 7 days. Days 1-3 (Friday-Sunday) are strictly setup time for owners to plead their cases, tell us their team’s strategies, breakdown the match ups, and do whatever else they can/want to do to try and convince you that their team would pull out a victory. Please, let the owners do this on their own with no help from you, the fan.

Debates will open to everyone on Day 4 (Monday) once I post that they are open. On Day 6 (Wednesday) I will post and tell everyone that voting may begin. Only after doing so will voting start. Any votes cast before I open voting will not count.

Look over the matchups and read the owners strategies and take into consideration how in-character each character is. Afterwards, use your best judgment to decide who you think has the best chance to win the match up. (Note: The length of a writeup is up to the owner. Do not punish owners just for having a shorter writeup.)

To vote, post the team names you think will prevail in each match. Remember, to vote for each match up or your vote will not count! The teams with the highest vote total at the end of the 7th day (Thursday) will get a W while the other will get an L. (Equal votes will result in a tie.)

The battleground for this week is: New York Populated (Marvel)

The Immortals
Tony Stark: Master of the Mystic Arts - Spellcaster with a suit of armor that combines technology and magic.
Cable (Burnt Offering) - High level Telekinetic and Telepath with a healing factor.
The Disruptor - Man with a suit that disrupts the natural flow and order of things.
Death - Regeneration, enhanced skeletal structure, heightened reflexes, speed and strength, armor and sword provided by Apocalypse which provides energy blasts, psychic disruption and stealth technology.
Javen - Organic metal form, focusing on bladed weaponry.

VS.

Big Boomin' Brawlers
Apocalypse (MU)
Nate Grey (MU)
Etrigan (DM)
Nocturne (MR)
Elijah Snow (DR)

 

[Kaboom]

I aksed for Apocalypse instead of Majestic 3 or 4 times in the update thread. (dropping Maul)

 

[Khellendros]

In the beginning...

The five appear in the middle of Central Park, somehow instinctively knowing that they have been brought together to do battle. After introductions are made, and the tension between Death and Cable comes to a head without bloodshed (mostly due to some quick mediation from Tony Stark), Cable brings their minds together in a telepathic link (once Death is convinced that they will need everyone on their team to have a chance to win and won't attack him and thus lowers his psi shields).

The first thing they all notice is the desperate need for the Disruptor to prove that he is worthy of the suit his father built. Next, they see the cold, killing attitudes from Javen and Death. Cable, being a veteran soldier, is unfazed by this, Tony is a little disturbed by their attitudes, and Disruptor thanks God they are on his side. Once all five members have achieved a level of familiarity with their teammates and their powers, Tony excuses himself from the group, citing a need to begin preparing himself and his armor for the upcoming battle.

Javen and Death, who find the lack of orders from his master temporarily liberating, strike up a hesitant conversation, comparing opponents, body counts, etc. Ten minutes later, when Death gets sick of talking, and Javen appears ready to go on for another hour, they go their separate ways.

Disruptor and Cable travel across the city, and Cable tries to mentally prepare his ally for the kind of combat he can expect to face. Suddenly, Cable and Tony feel knowledge of their opponents seep into their minds. A cold shiver runs up Cable's spine, even though a quick telepathic check tells him that Stark is the only other one to receive this knowledge. Apocalypse, creator and master of the Death persona, will be there facing his team.

Thinking quickly, Cable conferences with Stark. Even with Death's extra psi shields off, Cable's telepathy wouldn't be nearly effective enough for what he has planned. A few hours later, the team wanders back into the clearing they had all met in, minus their Sorcerer Supreme. Moving amongst them in Astral form, Tony casts a spell of forgetfulness (he showed he could cast spells in astral form in the What If?, and the forgetfulness spell is one that Strange has used before) on Logan, wiping all memory of his master, Apocalypse, and his loyalty to said master, and even the fact that he HAD a master, from his mind for the next few days. That bullet dodged, Stark returns to his body, meditating in preparation for the upcoming match.

Finally, in the last three hours of the prep time, strategies are finalized while Tony runs through his armor's databases, making sure his most effective spells are preloaded for instant use. He also casts his best shield spell on himself: The Triple Shield of Protection, after summoning a pair of mirrors to perform it between.

It is decided that they will divide into two units, the Regs/Mids and the Ubers, presenting united fronts against their respective enemies. The Ubers decide to go for utter Shock and Awe, sweeping amongst the other two ubers like a living hurricane, while the other group will take a subtler route, quietly putting down any support from the lower-powered characters.

Before I get to the fighting, lemme just point out that the above tactic of only my Ubers getting the info was approved by Wieg beforehand.

 

[Khellendros]

The Battle:

Cable and Stark vs Apocalypse and Nate

As soon as the fight starts, Cable locates their foes, and Stark teleports them within range. Even as they materialize, Stark and Cable instantly begin living up to the phrase "Shock and Awe".

Immediately, Stark casts the Spell of Forgetfulness on them both, focusing on causing them to forget how to use their powers, why they were fighting, etc., but leaving them with the knowledge of their hatred for each other. At the same time (Stark could cast two spells at the same time), he attacks Apocalypse's mind with the Images of Ikonn, which will cause him to feel the pain of everyone he's slain. He also casts the Winds of Watoomb, to drag the two Ubers across the city and away from their team.

At the same time as Stark attacks their minds and separates them from their team, Cable follows easily and begins tearing apart any tech the duo may have on their person, pulling it apart on the molecular level, if necessary (as he was doing against Silver Surfer, he just won't bother putting it back together again). Next, he concentrates on Nate, who by now is starting to shake off the forgetfulness spell, and breaches his now-weakened telekinetic shields. Finally, he opts for the easiest approach and pinches off the arteries feeding blood to Nate's brain. In a human of excellent physical health, this would lead to unconsciousness in 10 seconds, tops.

The two are arguably equal in power, but Cable has the advantage of having vast experience working with much less power than he has now (in fact, Cable beat Nate once before, at a drastically reduced power level). Even as Nate struggles to get blood flowing back through his veins, Cable attempts to put him to sleep with a telepathic assault. Cable, being an excellent multi-tasker, finds it well within his abilities to perform both tasks simultaneously. With no blood going to that vastly powerful brain, and his memories deteriorated due to Stark's spell, it becomes a forgone conclusion that Nate will fall eventually.

While Cable carries out his duties with Nate, Stark launches an all-out assault. His armor allowing him to tap into sources of power that normally would require spoken words and gestures, he batters Apocalypse's body with the Winds of Watoomb, while constricting him with the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak. Even as he casts, though, Apocalypse grows and shifts, attacking Stark's mind with his own psychic ability, and pounding his shields with any part of his body he can get free of the Bands and his own potent energy blasts.

Struggling endlessly through the pain of those he had killed and against the spells restricting him physically, Apocalypse grows in size, straining the Bands beyond their limit even as Stark cuts into him with magic-amped Repulsor blasts. Finally, as his personal shields being to break, Stark unleashes the Fungol Thopa, which will begin draining the very life force from his enemy. Though the Bands have been broken, he casts the Shackles of Sheol, which bind his legs and torso, and the Rings of Raggadorr, which will further hold him immobile and inhibit the use of his powers.

As he hovers over Apocalypse, supervising the Fungol Thopa to make sure Apocalypse is unable to be rid of them and that they don't kill him, Cable brings him the unconscious body of Nate. Stark casts the Mists of Morpheus to keep him asleep for the remainder of the battle. Once Apocalypse is weakened to the point of no longer fighting, he casts the Crimson Bands of Cyttorak on Apocalypse again, this time in the form of an imprisoning crystal construct (as seen in strange tales 128).

The two move on to search for their team, Stark taking to his astral form and leaving his battered armor behind with voice instructions to return to him if the foes wake up and free themselves. In the What If it showed it could perform actions like firing repulsors, teleporting, phasing, and flying, independently while Stark was in Astral Form.

 

[Khellendros]

The Battle Concludes:

Death, Javen and Disruptor vs Etrigan, Nocturne and Elijah

Even as the Ubers battle it out in the distance, Death activates his cloaking field (which was enough to conceal himself and Warren Worthington, huge wingspan and all, from sight and protect them from telepathic detection) and the three move out. As agreed during prep, Death takes the lead, with disruptor and Javen flanking him. The trio make their way out of Central Park, holding the images of their opponents, shown to them by Cable, firmly in their minds.

The first sign of their enemy is the sound of screaming, the whoosh of hellfire, and the booming, rhyming voice of a Demon unleashed from Hell with almost no restraints placed on his actions. Rounding a corner, they come upon Elijah threatening a hulking orange demon to freeze his brain, while an attractive little blue-skinned girl asks if he'd like to feel what it's like to be the one getting possessed. Suddenly, the demon stops laughing, turns, and looks directly at the cloaked trio.

With a roar, he leaps at them, unleashing a blast of hellfire from his mouth. Death, aware that this is no ordinary fire, shoves Disruptor out of the way even as he himself dodges. Javen, on the other hand, lunges under the Demon and at Elijah, extending arms tipped with fingers that could slice through steel walls like butter.. which promptly turn dull, and begin cracking as Elijah wields devastating cold against them. Unfortunately for Elijah, extremely brittle, razor sharp metal is still razor sharp metal, and even though they shatter on impact, Elijah gets punctured several times, in the neck and torso, by the impossibly sharp edges. Screaming in rage, Javen advances, kicking the white-haired man when he's down.

In the meantime, Disruptor simply makes himself scarce as Death and Etrigan engage in an epic battle, leaving a great deal of blood and flesh in their wake. Having long since turned his Disruptor field on in the form of a personal shield of sorts, he turns at the sound of an electrical discharge and a startled female cry to see Nocturne, sprawled on the ground, her attempted possession having failed.

Even as she rolls to her feet, she unleashes a hex blast, which in turn immediately reverses itself and narrowly misses the agile girl. Even as she feels herself gasping for air for no apparent reason, Nocturne leaps for the man in the red suit, only to have her momentum reversed, sending her cashing into a building wall. Now finding her vision growing dim, she struggles to her feet, only to finally notice Disruptor pointing at her, his hand glowing with strange energy. As she finally succumbs to her brain's ability to take in oxygen being disrupted, she attempts to release another hex bolt, garnering only a puff of sulphur-scented smoke for her effort.

While this has all gone on, Death has found himself worn down. His armor falling apart, and his guts hanging out, and his sword having been knocked... somewhere, things seem decidedly grim as Etrigan inhales deeply, flames licking out from his jaws. Suddenly, instead of the angry crimson and orange, what fills his mouth is bright silver, along with his nostrils and even eye sockets. Javen, standing behind him, shifts a great deal of his own body's mass down Etrigan's throat and into his gut. Even as Etrigan claws futilely at the living, liquid metal, it solidifies into a host of wicked spikes, erupting from his skull, throat, chest and gut. Withdrawing his organic metal form the messy orange corpse, Javen spits at the Demon (which reminds one of the word Daemonite) and walks off, leaving Death to collapses to the ground while his body frantically works to heal itself.


Points to note:

-Apocalypse is an evil ****, and under no stretch of reality would Nate Grey willingly work with him, no matter how enlightened he may be as the Shaman.

-Apocalypse and Elijah are your best leaders. Elijah could lead the team capably, but no way would Apocalypse OR Etrigan stand for that, leading to them butting heads. Apocalypse could lead the team, but he'd probably try to kill a few of them first, leading to further conflict.

-As I said, Cable has held his own and even defeated Nate before. Now, yes, Nate was also weakened at the time, but he still had a definite power advantage over Cable. Cable is just very very good at getting things done with minor power usage.

-Also, before it gets brought up, Cable only had problems with Death because he was a threat to Cable's family and friends. In this situation, with him freed from Apocalypse's control, Cable would be perfectly willing to put Death to use as the devastating asset he really is.

Victory: The Immortals.

 

[Kaboom]

Prep Time:

apocalypse, etrigan, nate are obviously going to butt heads on this one. Which is why Snow is going to lead the team. Or is he? He'll let Apoc think that he's actualy in charge, but Snow will do just enough to keep everyone on the straight and narrow. Besides this is just what Apocalypse loves...battle where the strongest survive? Its his bread and butter.

In the experience and knowledge department my characters are loaded. Apocalypse has been around since ancient egypt, Nate Grey is a mutant shaman, Erigan is a demon having been bonded to Blood since the middle ages, Elijah Snow is a century baby and wrote the planetary manuals, and Nocturne was a member of the exiles dimension jumping. Nothing is going to happen in this fight that at least someone from the team has experienced before. That will be huge.

Battle:

The decision is to make this a true melee contest. First, Etrigan goes after Tony Stark. Even though Stark is more powerful, Etrigan has much more experience, its magic at its best, but the goal is to simply remove Tony from being able to cast spells at whim on the battle field.

draw for now, but if let to themselves for too long Tony would win

Nate Grey and Cable are the obvious matchup. In terms of sheer power, there is no equal to Nate. However, thats not what matters in this batle. Cable and Grey are genetically and psionically the same, that means theres all kinds of psychic backlash that prevent eachother from fighting, just like in the X-Man comics.

draw

Death, Disruptor and Javen v Snow, Nocturne, Apocalypse

Apocalypse based on some rule will not engage this fight at this time. However his influence is felt. Death is one of Apocalypses horsemen. So he spends his entire time either under Apocalypses influence, or fighting to free himself. If he does free himself, he loses whatever added gfts Apocalypsegave him. For death, he's in a lose-lose situation.

Apocalypse however turns to face Tony Stark so that its now a team up Tony vs. Etrigan and Apocalypse.

The Disruptor is just a guy in the suit, Nocturne realizes thats no good for her power since he can disrupt anything she does, in fact the perfect answer to this batle is javen who nocturne posesses in order to attack the disruptor and destroy his suit.

Now both Javen and Disruptor have been defeated (Javen is posessed and Disruptor's suit destroyed) and we have a Death who is under Apocalypses influence or who fought free of Apocalypse but lose his powers. In any event Snow takes out wolvie during this inner battle flash freezing him in place that will take a while to get through.

Snow, Javen (Nocturne), Apocalypse, Etrigan v. Tony

Snow and Javen (Nocturne) now come to the aid of Etrigan and Apocalypse against Tony. 4 on 1 against the combined expereince of the Brawlers means that at the end of the day Apocalypse once again laughs that he is the strongest one there is.

 

[X]

Wolverine and Javen...

Now there's overkill.

 

[Khellendros]

Wolverine and Javen...

Now there's overkill.

Bladey blades of bladeness.

The decision is to make this a true melee contest. First, Etrigan goes after Tony Stark. Even though Stark is more powerful, Etrigan has much more experience, its magic at its best, but the goal is to simply remove Tony from being able to cast spells at whim on the battle field.

Bwahahaha oh YES, send the demon after the master sorcerer. Brilliant. Is there ANY reason to believe Stark doesn't just banish him bakc to Hell with a gesture (I know that that's normally frowned upon but come ON, he's a demon and Strange is a sorcerer!) ? Or, hell, just blow him over the horizon with the Winds of Watoomb.

Nate Grey and Cable are the obvious matchup. In terms of sheer power, there is no equal to Nate. However, thats not what matters in this batle. Cable and Grey are genetically and psionically the same, that means theres all kinds of psychic backlash that prevent eachother from fighting, just like in the X-Man comics.

There might be some psychic backlash (don't remember exactly) but they can definitely still fight. Also, while Nate might get the nod in telepathy (MIGHT), I would say Cable definitely has the better telekinesis feats. Overall power level, they're pretty close but, again, Cable has better fine control, does more with less, etc.

Death, Disruptor and Javen v Snow, Nocturne, Apocalypse

Apocalypse based on some rule will not engage this fight at this time. However his influence is felt. Death is one of Apocalypses horsemen. So he spends his entire time either under Apocalypses influence, or fighting to free himself. If he does free himself, he loses whatever added gfts Apocalypsegave him. For death, he's in a lose-lose situation.

Well, I came up with a way around Apocalypse trying to command Death. I guess I'll leave it up tot eh voters to decide how feasible it is. Also, most of his gifts came from tech, and I don't think Apocalypse showed he could just WILL them to stop working.

Tony vs. Etrigan and Apocalypse.

The Disruptor is just a guy in the suit, Nocturne realizes thats no good for her power since he can disrupt anything she does, in fact the perfect answer to this batle is javen who nocturne posesses in order to attack the disruptor and destroy his suit.

I actually thought of that, and it would be a simple matter for Disruptor to **** up her control of his mind without ejecting her, leaving her trapped within Javen for the duration of the fight. Javen might like it, but he'd just take his frustrations out on your team.

and we have a Death who is under Apocalypses influence or who fought free of Apocalypse but lose his powers. In any event Snow takes out wolvie during this inner battle flash freezing him in place that will take a while to get through.

First of all, Death wouldn't lose his powers, because Apocalypse didn't give them to him. He simply gave him very impressive tech and weapons, and eliminated all those annoyances like a conscience and mercy. Anyways, even if Elijah can take Wolverine out, there's still Javen and Disruptor to put him down.

Snow and Javen (Nocturne) now come to the aid of Etrigan and Apocalypse against Tony. 4 on 1 against the combined expereince of the Brawlers means that at the end of the day Apocalypse once again laughs that he is the strongest one there is.

I really doubt Etrigan would survive long enough for the team to come to his aid. Still, yes, if things just go absolutely pear-shaped for my crew, the three-on-one could happen. But really, it's just a couple street levelers backing up Apocalypse. One spell, and it goes back to being En Saba Nur vs Tony once again.

 

[Kaboom]

so basically what your saying is tony can do whatever his wants bc of his tech/magic...oh boy another "magic" takes care of everyhing. eyeroll. plus, etrigan has had been practicing magic and has been supernaturally charged since the middle ages, tony has what ten, 15, years of practice?

and yes when cable/nate meet, the pyschic backlash is devastating. check out the early issues of x-man.

 

[Khellendros]

so basically what your saying is tony can do whatever his wants bc of his tech/magic...oh boy another "magic" takes care of everyhing. eyeroll. plus, etrigan has had been practicing magic and has been supernaturally charged since the middle ages, tony has what ten, 15, years of practice?

No, what I'm saying is that, of all the players here, Etrigan would be a bad choice to send to keep Stark busy. Honestly, I know he knows some magic, but how many actual skilled mages has he defeated? Also, one assumes any magic he uses would be tainted with evil, and the Eye of Agamotto (Which Stark did have) is an incredible tool for dispelling evil magic.

and yes when cable/nate meet, the pyschic backlash is devastating. check out the early issues of x-man.

Yes, and yet later, they managed to fight. What are you saying is going to happen? They won't fight, or they'll end up in a double KO?

 

[Kaboom]

No, what I'm saying is that, of all the players here, Etrigan would be a bad choice to send to keep Stark busy. Honestly, I know he knows some magic, but how many actual skilled mages has he defeated? Also, one assumes any magic he uses would be tainted with evil, and the Eye of Agamotto (Which Stark did have) is an incredible tool for dispelling evil magic.

Yes, and yet later, they managed to fight. What are you saying is going to happen? They won't fight, or they'll end up in a double KO?

1) yet even more reason why i agree that mages should not be in the DTL, since they can do everything. And Etrigan is one of the best magic users in DC he's not fate level, or sorcereor supreme, but thats where his experience comes in. Stark is sorceror supreme...great...but for how long? But even Stephen is better now, then when he first became sorceror supreme. What I'm saying, is Etrigan has survived for centuries.

2) double KO

 

[Khellendros]

1) yet even more reason why i agree that mages should not be in the DTL, since they can do everything. And Etrigan is one of the best magic users in DC he's not fate level, or sorcereor supreme, but thats where his experience comes in. Stark is sorceror supreme...great...but for how long? But even Stephen is better now, then when he first became sorceror supreme. What I'm saying, is Etrigan has survived for centuries.

Etrigan is one of the best mages in DC? Based on what? I'm seriously asking, what's he done with just magic alone, who's he beaten, etc? And, seriously, why are you getting so cranky, just because I'm saying your MEDIUM probably won't do much to my Uber? And I don't know how long he had been Sorcerer Supreme by the time of the What If, but he had Dormammu on the ropes with his armor/magic combo.

2) double KO

Okay. but, you DO know that they fought, yes? I beleive it was after they fought Exodus.

 

[Kaboom]

Etrigan is one of the best mages in DC? Based on what? I'm seriously asking, what's he done with just magic alone, who's he beaten, etc? And, seriously, why are you getting so cranky, just because I'm saying your MEDIUM probably won't do much to my Uber? And I don't know how long he had been Sorcerer Supreme by the time of the What If, but he had Dormammu on the ropes with his armor/magic combo.

Okay. but, you DO know that they fought, yes? I beleive it was after they fought Exodus.

I didnt say my medium would beat you ruber, i said my medium will keep your uber on the ropes long enough to make the 4 on 1. My other 3 should really have no problems defeating the rest of your team, and Apocalypse makes a living out of being the strongest one there is.

I think itll be a double KO. Even if its not, and than can use their powers against eachother, Nate is the most powerful natural telepath ever in Marvel.

 

[Khellendros]

I didnt say my medium would beat you ruber, i said my medium will keep your uber on the ropes long enough to make the 4 on 1. My other 3 should really have no problems defeating the rest of your team, and Apocalypse makes a living out of being the strongest one there is.

Don't think I don't notice you aren't answering my question about WHICH mages, exactly, Etrigan has actually beaten with just his magic. And, yes, Apocalypse is very strong, but Tony has speed on his side. And, he has spells that can weaken his concentration/ability to use his powers effectively.

I think itll be a double KO. Even if its not, and than can use their powers against eachother, Nate is the most powerful natural telepath ever in Marvel.

Most powerful ever? Unlikely. And, anyways, Cable is good enough to keep him out of his mind, and as in my writeup, a forgetfulness spell from Strange would give Cable that little bit of an edge to win.

 

[Kaboom]

Don't think I don't notice you aren't answering my question about WHICH mages, exactly, Etrigan has actually beaten with just his magic. And, yes, Apocalypse is very strong, but Tony has speed on his side. And, he has spells that can weaken his concentration/ability to use his powers effectively.

Most powerful ever? Unlikely. And, anyways, Cable is good enough to keep him out of his mind, and as in my writeup, a forgetfulness spell from Strange would give Cable that little bit of an edge to win.

Im pretty sure Etrigan has Beaten Morgan La Fey on more than one occasion.

how is strange going to use a forgetful spell when hes busy battling for himself?

Once Nate became Shaman, he trounced Exodus in seconds by himself. Its not even a question that left to their own devices Nate would plaster Cable.

 

[Kaboom]

From Wikipedia:

One of the most impressive moments that displayed Nate's powers was when he easily trounced Exodus, a mutant with vast psionic powers who had previously managed to defeat the combined efforts of the X-Men and the Avengers in combat. This defeat left Exodus humiliated - especially since he is centuries old while Nate was only 16 (he confirms himself to be physically 17 in X-Man #68). In addition, Queen Jean in X-Man #68 described Nate Grey as the ultimate telekinetic, "It is what all Nate Greys have been on every earth." This, in addition with his telepathy, makes X-Man one of the most powerful mutants in Marvel history, among such company as The Scarlet Witch, Franklin Richards, Jean Grey, Hyperstorm and Mad Jim Jaspers.

 

[Khellendros]

Im pretty sure Etrigan has Beaten Morgan La Fey on more than one occasion.

Magic-to-magic? And was it Etrigan or Jason Blood?

how is strange going to use a forgetful spell when hes busy battling for himself?

Well, in ym writeup (which is what I was talking about) it was he very first thing he did, after teleporting them in range. It was the Forgetfulness/Images of Ikonn combo, then the Winds of Watoomb to get the Ubers away from the rest of their team.

Once Nate became Shaman, he trounced Exodus in seconds by himself. Its not even a question that left to their own devices Nate would plaster Cable.

It is in question, actually. I freely admit tot he possibility that Nate is a more powerful telepath, but Cable is more skilled, especially in using telekinesis. And if you think Nate is just going to bulldoze over Cable, you're out of your goddamn mind.

 

[Kaboom]

It is in question, actually. I freely admit tot he possibility that Nate is a more powerful telepath, but Cable is more skilled, especially in using telekinesis. And if you think Nate is just going to bulldoze over Cable, you're out of your goddamn mind.

did you miss this?

From Wikipedia:

One of the most impressive moments that displayed Nate's powers was when he easily trounced Exodus, a mutant with vast psionic powers who had previously managed to defeat the combined efforts of the X-Men and the Avengers in combat. This defeat left Exodus humiliated - especially since he is centuries old while Nate was only 16 (he confirms himself to be physically 17 in X-Man #68). In addition, Queen Jean in X-Man #68 described Nate Grey as the ultimate telekinetic, "It is what all Nate Greys have been on every earth." This, in addition with his telepathy, makes X-Man one of the most powerful mutants in Marvel history, among such company as The Scarlet Witch, Franklin Richards, Jean Grey, Hyperstorm and Mad Jim Jaspers.

with his telekenisis Nate can bend light. He can distort the earths magnetic field amd can bend the boundaries between dimensions so that he can pass freely between them. When has Cable ever done that?

 

[Khellendros]

From Wikipedia:

One of the most impressive moments that displayed Nate's powers was when he easily trounced Exodus, a mutant with vast psionic powers who had previously managed to defeat the combined efforts of the X-Men and the Avengers in combat. This defeat left Exodus humiliated - especially since he is centuries old while Nate was only 16 (he confirms himself to be physically 17 in X-Man #68). In addition, Queen Jean in X-Man #68 described Nate Grey as the ultimate telekinetic, "It is what all Nate Greys have been on every earth." This, in addition with his telepathy, makes X-Man one of the most powerful mutants in Marvel history, among such company as The Scarlet Witch, Franklin Richards, Jean Grey, Hyperstorm and Mad Jim Jaspers.

I... think that's referring to the fight that preceeded the Cable/Nate fight. And that was not an easy defeat, if I remember correctly. I don't remember Shaman Nate fighting Exodus, and I've read those issues a few times.

 

[Khellendros]

did you miss this?



with his telekenisis Nate can bend light. He can distort the earths magnetic field amd can bend the boundaries between dimensions so that he can pass freely between them. When has Cable ever done that?

No, I didn't miss that. And Cable has extracted a virus from a girl's body, was instantly breaking down and rebuilding everything he and the Surfer were flying through WHILE holding up his man-made island. He's channeled the combined energy of more than a hundred (possibly nuclear) missiles out of the atmosphere. He was able to telekinetically heal himself from dozens of gunshots, including head wounds, even before he took on Deadpool's healing factor.

 

[Kaboom]

No, I didn't miss that. And Cable has extracted a virus from a girl's body, was instantly breaking down and rebuilding everything he and the Surfer were flying through WHILE holding up his man-made island. He's channeled the combined energy of more than a hundred (possibly nuclear) missiles out of the atmosphere. He was able to telekinetically heal himself from dozens of gunshots, including head wounds, even before he took on Deadpool's healing factor.

so all of Cables feats involve moving tangible physical things, and Nate can bend spectrums and wave lengths and things that science can't even detect. Got it. Nate's more powerful.

 

[Khellendros]

Nate bends energy, Cable bends energy. Nate BLOWS **** UP (like that city), Cable breaks it down and remakes it on the molecular level.

And, by the way, crossing dimensional barriers wasn't that ****ing impressive in his Shaman days. That monkey from the lower universes did it by pure force of will, and Nate beat him pretty easily. Meanwhile, he couldn't do **** to Qabiri, while Cable was at LEAST able to shatter the Surfer's board out from under him. Two planet destroyers, and look how they match up to our guys.

 

[Kaboom]

Nate bends energy, Cable bends energy. Nate BLOWS **** UP (like that city), Cable breaks it down and remakes it on the molecular level.

And, by the way, crossing dimensional barriers wasn't that ****ing impressive in his Shaman days. That monkey from the lower universes did it by pure force of will, and Nate beat him pretty easily. Meanwhile, he couldn't do **** to Qabiri, while Cable was at LEAST able to shatter the Surfer's board out from under him. Two planet destroyers, and look how they match up to our guys.

i think were at the "Last word" part of the argument where its up to everyone to decide whos right.

 

[Khellendros]

Fine, lets move back to my questions about Etrigan.

 

[Khellendros]

*listens to the crickets chirping....*