Elder Scrolls V - Part 3

[Wolvieboy17]

What? lol so even though the game focuses a lot on looting, it's the player's fault if their inventory gets too cluttered?

Yes, yes it is. That's the whole point of the weight system and over-encumberance, to try and keep people regularly selling or storing their inventory. If you have as many potions that are simply not using or selling or storing responsibly as there were in that movie Spock posted, you can't complain about how long it takes to scroll because YOU'RE the one hoarding like a million potions. That's the way this game and the many previous Bethesda games have always been designed. What makes THIS inventory system better than previous ones is that it makes it much easier to actually spot what you're looking for with the image etc.

Why do you think Bethesda gives you the option to buy like 8 or more houses or companions to help carry things, if not to try and encourage you to NOT become just a walking junkyard?

 

[Wolvieboy17]

It's a flawed menu. Just because it works perfect for you doesn't mean there isn't a more functional alternative.

And just because you may be right, that it could be made even MORE functional for you, it doesn't stop you from being a nitpicker. Saying something could be better is not the same thing as saying something is bad.

 

[Master Chief]

Yes, yes it is. That's the whole point of the weight system and over-encumberance, to try and keep people regularly selling or storing their inventory. If you have as many potions that are simply not using or selling or storing responsibly as there were in that movie Spock posted, you can't complain about how long it takes to scroll because YOU'RE the one hoarding like a million potions. That's the way this game and the many previous Bethesda games have always been designed. What makes THIS inventory system better than previous ones is that it makes it much easier to actually spot what you're looking for with the image etc.

Why do you think Bethesda gives you the option to buy like 8 or more houses or companions to help carry things, if not to try and encourage you to NOT become just a walking junkyard?

For a game with an emphasis on freedom of choice that's an absurd approach to design. If I have a weight capacity of 750 and I want to haul 100 unique potions for anything that might come up, it's fine that the game forces me to scroll through them all because I'm not supposed to be carrying that much? Hahah crazyness.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

. But guess what, like ANY RPG that you can play, if you keep your inventory cluttered with literally a hundred potions, it WILL take a long time to scroll through your options..

World of warcraft (and many other RPG's) use color coding on text for a fast visual idea of what is what. That automatically by default dramatically reduces faffing about. With an option to auto-sell lower quility items or specific types of items. You can also auto-sort specific type of items to appear first and last. The items also come with easily to identity icons. World Of Warcraft has alot more deph then Skyrim. The game eases you in but at higher levels, there is alot to keep track off. Yet it's designed so well 8-12 year olds are playing it with ease organizing and coordinating raids and what not. Hell, mums and grans play it. People who aren't even into games.

Considering Bethesda has something like a 100-200 man team in a multi-level studio with offices, board rooms and gyms with men doing kick boxing, it's kinda baffling how incompetent the design in their games are sometimes. That menu I posted (wonderful) was probably made by one single person who is a fan of the game in his room. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a teenager still at school. Amazing how the world works. Just, amazing. Whaw.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

The way the menu navigates and the layout is not a problem at all. Whether console or keyboard, it's a few taps.

Have you used it on the PC?

But guess what, like ANY RPG that you can play, if you keep your inventory cluttered with literally a hundred potions, it WILL take a long time to scroll through your options. I'm pretty sure in that instance, the fault does not lie with the menu so much as it does with the person incapable of competent inventory management.

It's not having a ton of items in your inventory, it's about being able to view them, sort them, and select them more efficiently. First, in the default set up, the lists start at the center of the screen which is annoying since you have to scroll down to select the one you want. Obviously this is fine with a gamepad but not ideal with a mouse where you could have just moved your cursor down and clicked. Second, if you want to view information about an item (damage, defense, weight, value), you have to select it. With a modded menu, that information is already displayed and you can easily compare it to other items. Third, it's a lot more easier to switch item categories since you don't have to go back, but just click the category at the top of the list (I may be wrong on this since I haven't used the default inventory for several weeks).

And just because you may be right, that it could be made even MORE functional for you, it doesn't stop you from being a nitpicker. Saying something could be better is not the same thing as saying something is bad.

Except it is bad for the PC. EVERYONE who plays the PC version that I've come across does not like the default inventory menu. It was one of the first mods people wanted after getting the game.

 

[Master Chief]

And just because you may be right, that it could be made even MORE functional for you, it doesn't stop you from being a nitpicker. Saying something could be better is not the same thing as saying something is bad.

I'm not nitpicking, I'm acknowledging that it's a menu designed for consoles that just isn't efficient on PC.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

This.
That video posted above is an absurd example.

No it isn't, the game specifically has builds with tech tree's that use alchemy as a primarily means of combat. This is not miscellaneous, it is primary.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

As someone using Alchemy, it's very easy to find whatever potions you're using. Also, if you're actually using Alchemy effectively, you don't have that many potions poisons anyway. You have your set, key recipes that you rely on. That guy had all the different variant health potions, magicka etc. So evidently he's as inefficient at alchemy as he is at inventory management.

You guys all keep saying how it might be fine for console but it's terrible for PC, but PC still has more freedom with their menu, right? I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but for PC you can mouse click or use the arrow keys to scroll through menu stuff? Compared to console, where you can only scroll through using the controller buttons. If anything, technically mouse clicking could make it quicker than console. It's not like we all get this free ride. I still have to scroll down a list of things like anyone else. Sometimes the lists are really long and it takes a while. So that's when I go 'right, time to sell stuff or store stuff I'm not using'. Then, after i've done that, if I'm using everything but the lists are still long, I use the favourites list. Again, whatever the set-up, the design itself there is fine.

I think the problem here that most of you are having with this menu isn't that the menu is bad, it's just that it's not the type of inventory menu you'd prefer or that you're used to from other games.

One thing I don't understand in general is this.... How come PC gamers spend the most time complaining about little design flaws in games, when their choice of gaming system has Mod support that usually fixes all the problems anyway?

 

[Master Chief]

You don't see a problem with users having to do the things the developers should have?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I just think it's a case a PC gamers wanting to be perfectionists. And you guys have mods to solve the problem.

It's not a requirement. The menu is functional, and have a mouse to scroll through the potions. What you guys are talking about color coding and other stuff is the extra mile stuff. Sorry Bethesda was too busy working on other more important stuff like gameplay that they forgot to color-code the menu's or add a sort by weight (do you guys remember that all the potions are the same weight?).

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I would if the game design they are fixing was broken. However, since they're mainly streamlining and improving I see no problem with that at all.
You guys aren't talking about the game exploding every time you access a menu or anything that is genuinely broken, this is an issue of convenience. Sure, you may find that annoying and worthy of complaining but you can't expect everyone to find that complaint justified or even care. At the end of the day, what is at stake for you guys with this so called problem is extra clicks and taps of buttons. Movement of the fingers, whilst you're sitting down in a comfy chair.


Now, if we're going to complain about real flaws like the more serious game effecting bugs that Bethesda shipped the game out with, that's a different kettle of fish. But let's just keep some perspective, eh?

 

[Master Chief]

Hahah, dude, you said the modded UI is more cluttered so don't play that perspective card. It's not nitpicking to complain about having to spend more time doing something that isn't fun (managing inventory) just because the devs couldn't care less about designing a better menu. It takes me 5-10 minutes to dump all my loot after an adventure, with that UI it wouldn't take me more than 2.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

One thing I don't understand in general is this.... How come PC gamers spend the most time complaining about little design flaws in games, when their choice of gaming system has Mod support that usually fixes all the problems anyway?

Not everything can be fixed with a mod.

Some mods require the construction kit which hasn't been released yet.

Not all mods made are exactly to your liking.

A mod requires the creator to update it and they may stop doing it if they lose interest in the game.

 

[ProjectPat2280]

Oh look, PC users are whining about something. That's surprising why?

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

And console users are whining about PC users whining.

So everyone but me is dumb.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I don't know how it takes you 5-10 minutes to dump loot. That just seems completely ridiculous and I can only assume you aren't good at managing your stuff in general. I've got well over 700 carrying capacity and whenever I stop off at a house or store to drop off or sell anything, it NEVER takes me that long.

Also, that new interface IS cluttered at a glance. Sure the type to search is a great thing, but that works when you're looking for specific things. When you're doing what you would most commonly be doing, dropping things off or selling things, it really doesn't seem any different to the Oblivion UI, apart from the colour scheme and I still think the Skyrim menu is superior to the Oblivion one.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

And console users are whining about PC users whining.

So everyone but me is dumb.

Until you made this post... So welcome to the club! :P

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

This is a dark day.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Also, that new interface IS cluttered at a glance. Sure the type to search is a great thing, but that works when you're looking for specific things. When you're doing what you would most commonly be doing, dropping things off or selling things, it really doesn't seem any different to the Oblivion UI, apart from the colour scheme and I still think the Skyrim menu is superior to the Oblivion one.

It's not cluttered, it gives you a full list from the top of the screen to the bottom of the screen with important information you want to see.

 

[Speedball]

 

[Wolvieboy17]

It's not cluttered, it gives you a full list from the top of the screen to the bottom of the screen with important information you want to see.

It's the exact same information that is already accessible in the current UI, but you can see the extra stats next to the name of things... more words so more visual clutter.

The standard layout for the Skyrim UI is basically like a Mac computers files, or selecting songs etc from an Ipod. The main menu page is like an iPod home screen. It's easy to read and follow, all you do is go with the directions and scroll. Visually it's neat, easy to do and the hardest part of the whole process is merely scrolling through a menu, which is hardly a chore.

The new UI seems more like a Windows Explorer file or something, with a full list of everything, all the specs, stats, weight etc next to it. There's more info to be found for people who like that, but visually it's cluttered.

So for a PC gamer, I understand you preferring a menu that is more familiar to you, but the point I've made several times now still stands, it does not make the default menu a flawed design. It's unfair for you to call Bethesda lazy on account of that menu screen. By all means, as I said, go to town on the bugs etc that they've needed to patch since, but the menu is just about personal preference and convenience.

 

[Master Chief]

I don't know how it takes you 5-10 minutes to dump loot. That just seems completely ridiculous and I can only assume you aren't good at managing your stuff in general. I've got well over 700 carrying capacity and whenever I stop off at a house or store to drop off or sell anything, it NEVER takes me that long.

Also, that new interface IS cluttered at a glance. Sure the type to search is a great thing, but that works when you're looking for specific things. When you're doing what you would most commonly be doing, dropping things off or selling things, it really doesn't seem any different to the Oblivion UI, apart from the colour scheme and I still think the Skyrim menu is superior to the Oblivion one.

It takes me that long because I have to dump ingredients, potions, scrolls, books, weapons/armour, soul gems, jewellery, enchanted items, misc. goods and smithing items in separate places. If they somehow patch in just the search filter I'd be happier than a pig in s**t coz I miss certain items on my first pass due to the grouping.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

It's the exact same information that is already accessible in the current UI, but you can see the extra stats next to the name of things... more words so more visual clutter.

It's not clutter, it's giving you useful information without having to first highlight it.

The standard layout for the Skyrim UI is basically like a Mac computers files, or selecting songs etc from an Ipod. The main menu page is like an iPod home screen. It's easy to read and follow, all you do is go with the directions and scroll. Visually it's neat, easy to do and the hardest part of the whole process is merely scrolling through a menu, which is hardly a chore.

The new UI seems more like a Windows Explorer file or something, with a full list of everything, all the specs, stats, weight etc next to it. There's more info to be found for people who like that, but visually it's cluttered.

The scrolling is pointless on a computer. On the console, you have to scroll through anyway with the analog stick. But with a mouse, you can just move the cursor to click it. Making you scroll through the list (which for some pointless reason starts in the middle of the screen) is impractical and an unnecessary step in managing your inventory.

So for a PC gamer, I understand you preferring a menu that is more familiar to you

It's not about familiarity but ease of use and efficiency.

but the point I've made several times now still stands, it does not make the default menu a flawed design.

No, you've just chosen to dismiss the criticisms of the default menu. It is a flawed design for a mouse/keyboard interface.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Yeah I've dismissed them. And it very much is clutter. It's not useful information if you don't want it all the time. In both cases, the information is there but in the new UI, the information is all there on the default page. I prefer to not have to both with excess information if it's not necessary. If I want to know how much a piece of armour weighs I'll choose to go to armour.

It's the definition of clutter. That doesn't mean you can find it useful. A messy, cluttered desk can still be full of everything you need but some people just prefer everything in draws or filing cabinets. Of course, then you have to spend AAAAALLLLL that time opening a drawer. It's just awful.

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

I just think it's a case a PC gamers wanting to be perfectionists. And you guys have mods to solve the problem.

It's not a requirement. The menu is functional.

If this was a indie game or a smaller lower budget team with less resources , then fine. The Witcher 2 has alot of problems, I take that into account. It's a small, newer studio with most of the staff barely over 20. Bethesda though, have time and time again, had the exact same problems over and over. They are selling around something like 4-8 million copies. They are a huge studio and i'm sitting seeing people left and right claim "GOTY". It's just lazyness and/or outright incompetence and people appear to be in some sort of magical chocolate land.