Element created

Discussion in 'Iron Man 2' started by Bubonic, Jul 26, 2011.

  1. Bubonic

    Bubonic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    No name was given to the element he created in this movie right?
    Why is it that some people insist that it was Vibranium?
    I'm no scientist but I can't figure out how a metal would power a suit in the first place, also how can you create something that has already exist?
    Everyone knows Cap has a Vibranium shield, has had it since the 40s.
    The biggest conflicts of Wakanda revolve around them having the biggest amounts of this rare metal within their borders.

    Anyone have a clue?
     
    #1
  2. Anno_Domini

    Anno_Domini Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    17,997
    Likes Received:
    0
    After you've seen Captain America: The First Avenger, it could lend to ideas that the new "element" wasn't vibranium, since Howard already knew about it, but some kind of power from the Cosmic Cube that he wanted to created his very own "element". Wether that same element was also in the Arc Reactor remains unclear, but it's a more pure power than the Arc Reactor.
     
    #2
  3. Bubonic

    Bubonic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2007
    Messages:
    5,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks mate, I didn't think I'd get a reply.
    Cap was indeed what brought up the question for me, oh well, I just won't stand for people telling me the secret element is vibranium, makes no sort of sense.
     
    #3
  4. Anubis

    Anubis Sup?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    68,497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just remember that those people are stupid.
     
    #4
  5. gmanca

    gmanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2011
    Messages:
    186
    Likes Received:
    0
    Anno_Domini, that explanation makes the most sense;
    it ties into what Thor has mentioned "Science and magic are one and the same" and I agree that the Cosmic Cube energy is not what powered any of Howard Stark's arc reactors for the simple fact that Tony would not have been able to duplicate it in a cave out in the middle of nowhere.
     
    #5
  6. Mr.T

    Mr.T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    2
    The metal core used in the original arc reactor built with Yin Sen was made from the element Palladium. I can't remember what Tony's exact words but he mentions to Yin Sen the weight of the core as he's holding the ring up after pouring it into the top of the missile/core mold thingy. (I've also watched IM 10+ times). All the cores in v3.0 of the Arc Reactor in IM2 had a new style rectangular shaped palladium core that could be removed as it was depleted.

    It really caught my attention because at my previous place of employment, we used palladium in some of our semiconductor manufacturing processes. Thought it was cool the movie used a real metal.

    In Cap, Howard Stark mentioned the shield was all the Vibranium that existed in the world as he handed Cap the shield (we're just going to use what we know through the Marvel Movie Verse).

    I guess we'll probably never know, but how does the Arc reactor use the actual metal? The real element Palladium is a metal & the fictional element Vibranium (according to what we've seen in the new CA movie) is also a metal.

    What I'm getting at is the core of the Arc Reactor doesn't have to be some magical, glowing, Asgardian, soul collecting, spiritual, power ball.
    It just has to be a piece of metal. Otherwise, how woudl Tony and Anton create it in a cave?

    Did anyone else know about Vibranium? Apparently not, because Tony mentioned in the IM2 Donut Scene that he tried every known element to man. Nick Fury told him "you havent tried them all". It's apparent Nick knew of another element in existance. So how did Tony technically "create" a new element when one known to Fury already existed? That's because Tony Stark did not technically "create" a new element.

    Tony "created" a new element because it was unknown to the masses. His father/SHIELD/GovtAgency already knew what vibranium was but just kept it secret. They were limited by technology in making any attempts to manufacture/weaponize it. Tony was able to do that 60+ years later.

    Besides, if Vibranium was already known to the rest of the world, wouldn't Iron Man, or anyone for that matter, already have attempted to use it as armor for any suits/planes/rockets etc? In the Cap movie it's clearly stated it's super light and indestructible.

    I think where the confusion is coming from has to do with the Arc Reactor as a whole. The Arc Reactor design is derived from the CosmicCube. The Palladium core was the issue in IM2 (the burned up square cartridges). The new element Tony made was used to replace the Palladium core, not the entire design of the ArcReactor. Teh small piece of metal is just a small part of the reactor, but a very important one apparently.
     
    #6
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  7. Anubis

    Anubis Sup?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    68,497
    Likes Received:
    0
    No it wasn't, it was energy from the Cosmic Cube.

    Vibranium is a metal.
     
    #7
  8. Mr.T

    Mr.T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    2

    Vibranium is an element in the Marvel Universe. According to Cap, it's very light and indestructible. If it was already known to man, don't you think Iron Man would've used it as the basis for the armor on his MarkIII-Vi suits???

    Like I said earlier, Nick told Tony you havent tried them all. He knew of another element already in existence.

    I think what some people are confusing is they arent looking at the Arc Reactor as a whole. The technology the ArcReactor is based on did come from Howards research on the Cube. thsi is definitely not being disputed. The Cosmic Cube is indeed the basis of teh Arc Reactor.

    The CORE of the reactor is just a small part of the ArcReactor. The core is just a special piece of metal. Vibranium.
     
    #8
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  9. Anubis

    Anubis Sup?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    68,497
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a pretty big leap.

    We don't know what's in the arc reactor. All we kinda know is that it's possibly based off of the energy he was able to take a look at from the cosmic cube.
     
    #9
  10. Mr.T

    Mr.T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    2

    How is that a big leap? The metal Tony created was designed to replace the Palladium core. The square cartridges being burnt up in IM2 were palladium cores. Palladium cores are metal based cores. Vibranium is the new metal designed to replace the palladium core.

    We know the Palladium core is important just from scenes in IM & IM2.

    Liek I said earlier, if you look at the ArcReactor as a whole, it's design is derived from the CosmicCube.
    We're just talking about the metal core needed to "power" the reactor.
     
    #10
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  11. Anubis

    Anubis Sup?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    68,497
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're still going from A to B to F here. Just because Vibranium is a metal doesn't mean that Vibranium is what Stark created to replace the Palladium.

    The biggest thing to remember here is that Vibranium already existed before Stark was even born. So how can he create an element, that already exists? They said he created a new element. Not that he developed a way to artificially create an old one.

    It's more likely to be one of the thousands of other kooky types of metal in the MU. Like Anti-Metal or something. I'm not gonna go ahead and say that's what it is because WE DON'T KNOW.
     
    #11
  12. Mr.T

    Mr.T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    2

    My point is that Stark did NOT create a new element that never existed. He created a new element uknown to the masses. Nick Fury clearly new the existance of this new element. I just think if Vibranium was already known to the world it would've been used and weaponized.

    But in the end, you're right about us just not knowing. I'm confident I know, but really who does??

    It's fun to talk about this stuff, anyway... :woot:
     
    #12
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2011
  13. Anubis

    Anubis Sup?

    Joined:
    May 24, 2002
    Messages:
    68,497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Eh, it's something to do while waiting for porn to download at least. :o
     
    #13
  14. LightningMan

    LightningMan Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2011
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is always fun to debate what different entities know or knew regarding potentially world changing secrets.That is why when I moved out to Portland I did a bunch of research to find out which local comic book shop was going to be the best hang out. I found one that had a little cafe and wi-fi just by taking a look at some online reviews. Have you guys ever heard of Angie's List? They have a ton of store reviews...
     
    #14
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2011
  15. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    54,684
    Likes Received:
    135
    Wasn't the source of the arc reactor Palladium which was also what was powering the one in Tony's chest? But the palladium was burning out very quickly and was leaking into his bloodstream.
     
    #15
  16. GammaAzazel

    GammaAzazel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 3, 2010
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Did you miss the beginning of this thread?
     
    #16
  17. Kahoot

    Kahoot 3.14

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Messages:
    16,546
    Likes Received:
    0
    I always thought that Tony created the new element that his dad designed but didn't have the tech to actually make. That is why Nick Fury knew about it, he knew about the design.

    It wasn't that he was creating it for the masses it was that he was actually creating it for the first time.
     
    #17
  18. SuperFerret

    SuperFerret King of the Urban Jungle

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2004
    Messages:
    34,518
    Likes Received:
    1
    Just fyi, uranium is a real metal, and it powers a ****ton of things in the real world, so you can use a metal to power something. I have nothing else to add.
     
    #18
  19. Savage

    Savage Earth Rocker

    Joined:
    May 12, 2002
    Messages:
    22,213
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just watched Iron Man 2 again yesterday and when tony is reading his dad's notes there's a picture of the cube drawn in it. I'm just gonna go ahead and make a leap here and say the new element is a recreation of what powers the cosmic cube. I've suspected it since watching Captain America but this just clinched it for me. Now the Cosmic Cube has officially appeared in 3 of the 5 Marvel solo movies (so far. Who knows what else I'll find if I dig enough).
     
    #19
  20. Mr.T

    Mr.T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    2
    Bringing this back from the dead just because I heard something interesting on this. Supposedly, in the novelization of Iron Man 2, Stark calls this new elemnt Vibranium. I'm in no way confirming this, just heard this rumor from someone. if someone has the IM2 Movie novel, can they verify this?
     
    #20
  21. TheVileOne

    TheVileOne Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2002
    Messages:
    54,684
    Likes Received:
    135
    I think that's accurate, but clearly for what happened in the movies, it's not vibranium since vibranium already existed and it is the material that makes up Cap's shield.
     
    #21
  22. spideymouse

    spideymouse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    1,529
    Likes Received:
    0
    At the same time, would vibranium necessarily have been one of the elements that Tony would have been able to try in IM2 if it was "the rarest metal on earth" and the only vibranium that the Allied Forces had in the 1940s was stuck in a frozen HYDRA aircraft in the arctic circle? Assuming that Wakanda is still fiercely isolationist at this point and probably very secretive about their own stash of the metal, the idea of vibranium 70 years later could have become the stuff of legends/rumors, since no one would have had access to it. I'm just saying it's possible to explain Tony's ignorance of vibranium as an existing element due to the fact that no one had any.

    The fact that Howard Stark had apparently lost the only vibranium he ever knew of could have been another reason why he was so desperate to find Cap in the Arctic.
     
    #22
  23. MattMatrix

    MattMatrix New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    I will answer your question with a question. Do you know how SOLAR panels work? Here is a hint; it takes a certain element in order to generate that electricity and it is Tellurium! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_telluride_photovoltaics
    I know I have a degree in Industrial Electronics and technology. :/ And can't get any such thoughts out of my mind since. My best advice never get into the field it is almost magnetic and you get trapped with no way out ;) lol. As far as powering a suit actually I think it was a combination of elements as a viable replacement for a electrical-based core much "like" tellurium but could harness plasma-based energy or something similar to argon-based L.A.S.E.R, (probably different elements but same concept!) As for Vibranium (Hint the root word vibrate. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vibrant) does not exist that I know of. :/ http://marvel.wikia.com/Iron_Avengers_%28Earth-9997%29
    But the one of the closest thing is Tellurium or Crystals used in electronics!
     
    #23
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2013
  24. Aeonix

    Aeonix New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2013
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let's say Tony Stark could create a new element, or (re)discover it. In the movies, (Iron Man 2) he discovers (or rediscovers as he puts it) a new element on the upper end of the Periodic Table. This is, of course, in a quest to replace the Palladium in his Arc Reactor as a fuel source... one that isn't going to poison him.

    What is the feasibility of this fictional occurrence?

    Well, as Jarvis indicates, the element Tony Stark discovers is on the upper end of the Periodic Table. Seeing as it's a new discovery (at least keeping in canon for Iron Man), it's safe to say he discovered a super heavy element, which would make for an excellent fuel source (ultra dense) on the Arc Reactor.

    However, on the upper end of the Periodic Table there is a stability issue with super heavy elements. What would be the candidate for that new element then?

    Interestingly enough, if you search for possible answers online, you find many conjectures about fictional elements and such (like Vibranium). But there actually is an element which would fit the needs of Tony for that Arc Reactor to replace Palladium, and interestingly enough it has a weird sort of history.

    If we are to assume that S.H.I.E.L.D. knew about Vibranium but kept it under wraps, and we take into account that Howard Stark (given the time frame he existed was the height of those top secret projects and "alien technologies") It could be a given that Howard Stark likely had some involvement around the period's version of S4 Facility or Area 51. If you're dealing with alien technologies, then that's where your playground is at...

    If you follow conspiracy theories, then Bob Lazar is a name you probably know well. While I'm not going to state that his claims are true or false, he *did* make an interesting claim to the effect of the element used as the fuel source for extra terrestrial vehicles at the S4 facility.

    That element is now known as 115 Ununpentium.

    However, it doesn't stop there... after all, 115 on its own is unstable. It's not like you can use it as-is for a fuel source. In order for this claim to check out, Lazar had to have been indicating a specific configuration of Uup which is 299Uup, with 184 neutrons. To date, this doesn't _officially_ exist and maybe 4 atoms of this stuff have officially existed in raw form before it decayed.

    But _theoretically_ 115 would be very stable at 299Uup with 184 neutrons. Lazar did indicate in the 1990s (or maybe 1980s, I can't remember) that the stability of super heavy elements is expected around 113-116 range whereby a configuration would be available. Ergo, the discovery of Unumpentium in 2004 is interesting as element 115 and theoretically in a very stable configuration of 299Uup.

    So we get a claim by Lazar about the S4 facility having about 500 pounds of Element 115, wherein it would have to be as 299Uup for that to hold up. The connection to the 299Uup is that it is claimed as the element fuel source (isotope) for what would be alien space craft is even more interesting since those craft are (again supposedly) quantum gravitational displacement engines... which actually _would_ require a ridiculous amount of power to run and possibly an ultra-dense material for fuel.

    The correlation here is back to the fictional Tony Stark and discovering a super heavy element for use in the Arc Reactor as a fuel source. Whereby if we look at the properties of the fictional Iron Man suit we realize there isn't much difference between the arc reactor and the abilities it allows the Iron Man suit... Repulsors and Flight... and the use of 299Uup in theory for the fuel source of quantum gravitational displacement engines at the S4 Facility allegedly harboring alien spacecraft.

    Those same quantum gravitational displacement engines would be something that Howard Stark had access to during his time, as we saw in the Iron Man movie for the Stark Expo (R&D for the flying car on stage). Which would be a great cover for having a half-working system that need more time... indicating Howard Stark would have been part of the team (obviously) reverse engineering the original Roswell Spacecraft and it's gravitational displacement engines.

    Ergo, Howard Stark wouldn't be able to say anything about the discovery of 115 and 299Uup as the fuel source for those engines, but he would encode it into the design of the Stark Expo (as indicated in Iron Man 2).

    In the nd, it seems the most plausible element for Tony Stark is therefore 115 Ununpentium, 299Uup as it is an element which would (at least in theory and conjecture) harbor all of the properties associated with gravitational displacement engines and ultra-dense fuel source which also exists at the far end of the Periodic Table (as Jarvis says in the movie).

    It would also explain the apparent difficulty inferred by Jarvis about constructing that element (in a stable form). The next predicted element for stability like Ununpentium in 299Uup for is somewhere around the 243 range and would be exceedingly harder to stabilize than Ununpentium on the periodic table, so while I agree Tony Stark is a super genius, I think he's likely working with 115 and not 243 for the sake of stabilization.

    Interestingly throughout all of this, I get the weird feeling that Lazar might not have been totally bluffing after all :)
     
    #24
  25. NerdBuscus

    NerdBuscus New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2013
    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    In iron man 1 and 2 the Arc Reactor was powered by palladium. The reason that palladium burnt out was due to neutron bombardment. The new core was probably powered by vibranium, because of its vibrational absorbency level and its ability to give off alpha rays that can be diverted via transformer to an electrical energy. I am 11. I am a nerd. Don't judge me! :D
     
    #25

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"