Mystery/Thriller Elementary - CBS's Modern Take on Sherlock

[spider-neil]

Questions about the season 1 finale;
1) How did Holmes take down Moriarty? What was the charge to send her to prison?
2) Did Watson find something wrong with Moriarty physically?

In the final hospital scene I couldn't hear a world Holmes or Moriarty were saying.
Thanks in advance

Anyone?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I've seen that question asked and hinted at that it will turn romantic. I don't think it should. Not because of some Moonlighting curse (Castle, Bones and a few other series have already successfully defied it) but it doesn't feel like it would be the right path for them.

Holmes and Watson should become very close but not romantically so. It feels like it would fall into every trope where a man and a woman can't avoid getting together and in their relationship I think it would do more harm than good.

Of course in a few years time I might change my opinion on it after things have developed more thoroughly between them but it's definitely something I'd roll my eyes at if it happened now.

I am way against romance between the 2. I meant deepening friendship in strong platonic sense.

As for the finale... I remember Watson coming up with a fake out of Holmes having a relapse, M goes to the hospital to see Holmes and admits to her crimes. As for M's health, it was Holmes that deduced M was playing him when he noticed a mole removed from her back, which did not jibe with her story of imprisonment.

 

[spider-neil]

I am way against romance between the 2. I meant deepening friendship in strong platonic sense.

As for the finale... I remember Watson coming up with a fake out of Holmes having a relapse, M goes to the hospital to see Holmes and admits to her crimes. As for M's health, it was Holmes that deduced M was playing him when he noticed a mole removed from her back, which did not jibe with her story of imprisonment.

Thanks Krypton. So M isn't ill?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Thanks Krypton. So M isn't ill?

No. I do not believe so, unless you've read or heard something different. If anything she should be in great shape. Holmes deduced that the removal of the mole was about preventative maintenance as it were. It's why he knew Irene was not on the up and up. Why would her captors even bother to remove a non cancerous mole? Answer: They wouldn't.

What made you thing the character is ill in some way? I mean other than morally.

 

[spider-neil]

No. I do not believe so, unless you've read or heard something different. If anything she should be in great shape. Holmes deduced that the removal of the mole was about preventative maintenance as it were. It's why he knew Irene was not on the up and up. Why would her captors even bother to remove a non cancerous mole? Answer: They wouldn't.

What made you thing the character is ill in some way? I mean other than morally.

I couldn't work out what M and Holmes were saying in the hospital (no sub titles) and I thought I heard that Watson solved the case but her expertise is medical, right?

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Lots of spoilers in the next paragraph. If any don't want to know the twists of the finale last season, please skip over it.


Watson felt that M wanted to win more than anything, but she also still had very strong feelings for Sherlock. There is a moment when it appears Watson is telling Holmes to let it go and let M "win". It's then implied that Holmes has had a relapse and is admitted into an ER for an overdose, possibly an attempted suicide.M comes to see him, she admits her crimes, but gives a whole "come to the darkside"spiel, how Holmes can come with her and she'll take care of him and show him a life of riches and intellecual stimulation, ect. Then, boom, it's all a ruse cooked up by Watson who had taken her measure of M at the restaraunt and saw how to catch her. Gregson and the Police show up and take M away.

I just assumed that this show would be many steps below the BBC show, but I've been enthralled by it from ep 1. This season so far is building nicely and I hope before it's over we get a return of M.

 

[Teelie]

I didn't think it would be as good as the BBC one but it is, although very different in interpetation. They are the same characters but the attributes are very different and very much unique to the other. Outside of their basic cores they aren't much alike.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

I am way against romance between the 2. I meant deepening friendship in strong platonic sense.

though, I can't see a romance between the two...

I could see his influance on her (perhaps combined with something dramatic happening in her love live) getting to the point where she becomes just as jaded against romantic pursuits as he is, and they eventually come to an agreement of a "partners with benefits" arrangement, that would be mutually beneficial in satisfying each others sexual needs without the detraction of romantic entanglements

just saying...

that's pretty much the only situation in which I could see them hooking up

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I hope that is not what they do for my mom's sake. She was skeptical about the gender switch for Watson and said"I don't know if I can deal with Holmes schtupping Watson." Of course they went one better and hooked the hero up with his archnemesis. It's like Superman sleeping with Alexis Luthor!

 

[spider-neil]

I hope that is not what they do for my mom's sake. She was skeptical about the gender switch for Watson and said"I don't know if I can deal with Holmes schtupping Watson." Of course they went one better and hooked the hero up with his archnemesis. It's like Superman sleeping with Alexis Luthor!

Batman - Joanne Chill
Spider-Man - Norma Osborn

 

[Dark Raven]

The online dating guy who showed up for Joan is the guy from "Once."

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The online dating guy who showed up for Joan is the guy from "Once."

Huh? What guy from ONCE? You mean the ABC show? I didn't recognize him. Who is he again?

Also, I really think he's a plant from M. The timing is suspect.

 

[Anubis]

The online dating guy who showed up for Joan is the guy from "Once."

The play or the movie?

 

[Dark Raven]

Huh? What guy from ONCE? You mean the ABC show? I didn't recognize him. Who is he again?

Also, I really think he's a plant from M. The timing is suspect.

"Once" the Broadway musical - Steve Kazee. He was the lead actor and played the "guy" or "boy" or whatever his name was, alongside another current CBS actress, Cristin Milioti from HIMYM.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

This last Episode was pure case of the week, even with the whole "I used to write letters to a suspect" bit. Not that I am complaining. It was a tense hour with Red Herring after Red Herring. I was hoping that it would have been revealed that Bell had hooked up with the smoking hot Mistress from the show's start. Oh well.

I must ask, seeing how things played out, to those that are more into canon Holmes, what do you all think his view of law and justice is? Would canon Sherlock let a killer go under extenuating circumstances? Or is he a Batman like "all criminals must pay" type? Did the ending of this ep strike anyone as wrong?

 

[Asgard]

I really liked the latest episode. I like the back stories were getting for Joan and Sherlock.

Speaking of Joan, Im really liking how far she's progressing as a detective. Really good catch with the tattoo on Abigail's wrist and Sherlock noticing it. I much prefer this version of Dr Watson who's quite the detective in her own right rather than a person who's largely clueless as to what's going on. I hope we get a few episodes where Joan is the lead consulting detective with Sherlock in the backseat or not there at all to see how much she's learned.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I really liked the latest episode. I like the back stories were getting for Joan and Sherlock.

Speaking of Joan, Im really liking how far she's progressing as a detective. Really good catch with the tattoo on Abigail's wrist and Sherlock noticing it. I much prefer this version of Dr Watson who's quite the detective in her own right rather than a person who's largely clueless as to what's going on. I hope we get a few episodes where Joan is the lead consulting detective with Sherlock in the backseat or not there at all to see how much she's learned.

I think a major difference in this version of Watson is that Joan is actively being trained by Holmes to be a partner. She's not just a tag along character that is there for Holmes to use for exposition towards the audience.

How did you feel about Holmes' take on law and justice this ep?

 

[DrDoom]

I think a major difference in this version of Watson is that Joan is actively being trained by Holmes to be a partner. She's not just a tag along character that is there for Holmes to use for exposition towards the audience.

How did you feel about Holmes' take on law and justice this ep?

The MAJOR difference is that Watson's a woman

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

The MAJOR difference is that Watson's a woman

t:

 

[Dark Raven]

I really liked the latest episode. I like the back stories were getting for Joan and Sherlock.

Speaking of Joan, Im really liking how far she's progressing as a detective. Really good catch with the tattoo on Abigail's wrist and Sherlock noticing it. I much prefer this version of Dr Watson who's quite the detective in her own right rather than a person who's largely clueless as to what's going on. I hope we get a few episodes where Joan is the lead consulting detective with Sherlock in the backseat or not there at all to see how much she's learned.

I also like that she's not a bumbling detective like Watson normally is, and usually draws the wrong conclusions about things.

As for Holmes's take on law and justice, well I think he's also a man of compassion here. While he wouldn't just let someone go, he realises that Abigail (was that her name?) had already served her time and wasn't a monster, so he's not going to try to pin this new murder on her as penance for the old one for which she was acquitted. His compassion is also why he didn't want her confessing to it when he knew the boy was guilty.

I suppose he could have tried to prove the boy guilty, but he would need concrete evidence of that and it seems he didn't have that but only circumstantial evidence which could easily point to the nanny.

 

[Teelie]

It's been a while since I read the books but I believe the "canonical" Holmes has similarly let someone go for murder before when he found it was a justified case, not done in cold blood or for anything but defensive reasons.

 

[chamber-music]

Watson in the books in no bumbling idiot. It was the Basil Rathbone and Nigel Bruce Sherlock Holmes serials from the 1940's which deliberately made Watson a bit of a dimwit to make Holmes look smarter than got the whole Watson isn't smart thing going.

Holmes is slightly morally grey as well. He isn't a white knight hero who always does the right thing in the stories.

 

[Asgard]

How did you feel about Holmes' take on law and justice this ep?

I think he did the right thing.

 

[Dr.]

As for Holmes's take on law and justice, well I think he's also a man of compassion here. While he wouldn't just let someone go, he realises that Abigail (was that her name?) had already served her time and wasn't a monster, so he's not going to try to pin this new murder on her as penance for the old one for which she was acquitted. His compassion is also why he didn't want her confessing to it when he knew the boy was guilty.

Yes, she was acquitted of the first "murder" - therefore, didn't serve any time.

It's been a while since I read the books but I believe the "canonical" Holmes has similarly let someone go for murder before when he found it was a justified case, not done in cold blood or for anything but defensive reasons.

The Adventure of the Abbey Grange comes to mind.

 

[BlackMagicWolf]

Yeah I really like this episode. The twist at the end I didn't see coming.