Mystery/Thriller Elementary - CBS's Modern Take on Sherlock

[Dark Raven]

I totally hated the twist. Using a comic book example, it was like making Gwen Stacy and the Green Goblin the same person, WTF. So now both Watson and Moriarty are women...

Not quite. Irene Adler has been portrayed in a number of different ways in different adaptations: either a pure love interest, a shady con woman, working for or connected to Moriarty in some way or as an outright villain. Gwen has never been so ambiguous like that. A closer example would be Black Cat but even she hasn't been portrayed as an outright villain like Irene has.

 

[Paradox1]

I totally hated the twist. Using a comic book example, it was like making Gwen Stacy and the Green Goblin the same person, WTF. So now both Watson and Moriarty are women...

A better example is if Lex Luthor and Louis Lane are the same person because Gwen Stacey is not Peter's greatest love like Irene is to Sherlock, and Green Goblin is not Spider-Man shadow like M is.

 

[Two-Face=Badass]

A better example is if Lex Luthor and Louis Lane are the same person because Gwen Stacey is not Peter's greatest love like Irene is to Sherlock, and Green Goblin is not Spider-Man shadow like M is.

Have you even read the original story? Any romance is pretty much invented.

 

[Paradox1]

I'm talking about in the contexts of this series in particular

 

[Angelus_Darko]

Yeah, I'm aware that there are different interpretations of both Moriarty and Irene, but that's how I felt the whole thing, because both of them have a particular place in Holmes' life, a part to play. They have been making different versions, but in the end both of them have their essence. Still using the comic book comparison, maybe it would be like making The Joker and Catwoman the same person.

 

[Paradox1]

Thats pretty similar but Batman gets around a lot more than Holmes.

 

[The Shape]

I loved it.

Honestly, for the past few episodes, I had it set in my head that Irene was either working for Moriarty or being forced to work for him and manipulate Holmes. When she turned up in NY, I knew she wasn't genuinely the lost and tortured soul she was pretending to be. I figured her whole "death" was a ploy used by Moriarty to devastate Holmes and get him out of London. But when she revealed herself as Moriarty, I thought it was brilliant and something no one saw coming.

Who cares if M is a woman? The game between M and Sherlock has never been about gender, or two "alpha males" clashing. It's a battle of minds. A game of wits. All that matters is that Moriarty is Holmes' intellectual equal. The idea of M passing herself off as Irene to get close to him and study him is exactly something that Sherlock would do to catch a criminal. They are obsessed with their work, ruthless in their pursuit of the truth, and often insensitive to the human condition. Elementary's M served the same purpose as any M interpretation has -- a master criminal with genius-level intellect (like Holmes), who had a large network of agents working on her behalf; someone who gave Sherlock Holmes a run for his money.

I commend this show for its advanced planning and for keeping this a secret for so long. I also can't wait to see Moriarty pop up again in the future. You know she's going to orchestrate a brilliant escape from prison...

 

[Infinity9999x]

I also quite enjoyed the M-twist. It was an interesting angle to show that M was after tormenting Sherlock emotionally and not just about besting him intellectually. I've been a fan of how this show has handled Moriarty the entire time.

Now, I will say, I'm really hoping they start giving Sherlock some better cases. My biggest issue with the series was that too many of the episodes revolved around crimes that were not worthy of Sherlock Holmes. I really wasn't sure why he was being called in on them. And because of that, the brilliance of this Sherlock was significantly downplayed.

 

[Dark Raven]

Also, it made it that Moriarty has actually permeated this whole season since the start, even when you didn't know it. They've been talking about Irene Adler for ages even before Sebastian Moran came along and mentioned the name Moriarty. And the whole reason for Holmes being in NY and Joan being his sober companion is to do with Moriarty in fact.

It also gives Holmes a completely different outlook for the next season because he's no longer wracked with guilt now that he knows the truth and a burden has been lifted in a way.

 

[Teelie]

I didn't see it coming but in hindsight it makes sense that Moriarty would be far more than what we're used to. The original Moriarty was an older man in the books. In the new Sherlock series, he's a young man, just like Sherlock. In this series, Watson is a woman and that was a big deal but it never occured to anyone that Moriarty would be anything but a man.

That was quite clever. She even had her people fooled to a large degree with only the top lieutenants even in on it. And the audience didn't see it either, surely not that it would be Irene.

 

[TheVileOne]

The Irene Adler = Moriarty twist wasn't bad. End of the season sort of wrapped everything up, so no big cliffhanger. Now they know the show is coming back at least.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Elementary version of Moriarty is better than the psycho we got with BBC Sherlock, although the later is the better show.

 

[chamber-music]

Holmes and Watson are in their late twenties/early thirties in most of the books but they usually cast middle aged actors to play them in movies and tv shows.

My favourite Moriarty twist was when he turned out to be Sherlocks school teacher in Young Sherlock Holmes.

 

[Dr.]

My favourite Moriarty twist was when he turned out to be Sherlocks school teacher in Young Sherlock Holmes.

The same notion was used in The Seven-Per-Cent Solution - which predates YSH by several years.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Elementary version of Moriarty is better than the psycho we got with BBC Sherlock, although the later is the better show.

I don't know if I would call one or the other better. They're just very different. I initially wasn't fond of Sherlock's Moriarty, but by the episode The Richenbach Fall, I absolutely loved him. He was great in that episode, as was his plan. What I enjoyed about that episode is that it played homage to all the Moriarty theories out there. Since Watson never actually sees Moriarty in the books (aside from a fleeting moment where it easily could have been someone else) there has long been a theory that Sherlock himself created Moriarty in order to give himself an opponent who could truly rival him. Others speculated Holmes made him up in order to cover the fact that he really wanted to commit suicide at the fall.

Sherlock incorporated pieces from all those theories, which was nice.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

It was just my opinion, I didn't really liked Emoriarty in Sherlock.
The theory that Holmes created him was part of the show story so I don't think it will append to be true.

 

[Infinity9999x]

It was just my opinion, I didn't really liked Emoriarty in Sherlock.
The theory that Holmes created him was part of the show story so I don't think it will append to be true.

Oh yeah, I know. I get it too, Sherlock's Moriarty was very unique.

Also, I know in the show it obviously wasn't true. But the fact that they played that angle was obviously an homage to the fact that it has been one of the many theories revolving around Moriarty for years. I thought it was a nice touch that they added that.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I never read a Sherlock Holmes novel, Moriarty being created by Holmes is from the books ?

 

[Infinity9999x]

I never read a Sherlock Holmes novel, Moriarty being created by Holmes is from the books ?

Not really. It's been a theory about the character for years though. Moriarty only really "appears" in one Holmes story. However, Watson never actually sees him. He's only told about him by Holmes. The fact that Watson never actually met Moriarty has lead to many theories about Moriarty himself. One of them was that Holmes created Moriarty to give himself an intellectual rival.

There's no definite answer to the question, and it's more likely that Conan Doyle intended Moriarty to simply be Moriarty, but it's always been fun to speculate.

 

[chamber-music]

Conan Doyle created Moriarty just so he could kill off Sherlock. The character was a narrative device originally.

I wonder if Elementary writers will do there take on Reichenbach Falls and bring Moriarty back.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Conan Doyle created Moriarty just so he could kill off Sherlock. The character was a narrative device originally.

I wonder if Elementary writers will do there take on Reichenbach Falls and bring Moriarty back.

Yep. He wanted to give Sherlock an enemy worth sacrificing himself for.

But I still love reading all the theories regarding Moriarty himself. It's funny, but Conan Doyle unwittingly created the first "supervillain" in Moriarty. Moriarty and Irene Adler respectively have evolved into much bigger characters then they ever were in the book canon. Both are characters who only appear in one story, yet have become standbys of any Sherlock adaptation.

 

[chamber-music]

Moriarty and Irene Adler are super popular for characters that only popped up. Not many of the other Sherlock characters are as popular or memorable as those two with people.

 

[godisawesome]

Especially since Doyle revisited Moriarty for Valley of Fear. With that one move, Doyle emphasized how grand of an opponent Moriarty was, and also made him far more sinister with the fact that he actually won the day against Holmes.

Wen it comes to recent portrayals of the Napoleon of Crime, I still think Harris was the most chillingly portrayed, even if the plotline was a lackluster.

Speaking of the Valley of Fear, that's the story that references Moriarty having a stolen painting hanging in his premises. Did anybody else catch that clue from the first flashback in elementary?

 

[Teelie]

I read all the books a few years ago but some of the specific details are fuzzy. I'll recognize certain events, characters, references, etc but I can't always place from where. The painting felt familar and of course Irene's feminine equal for Sherlock was there.

As I recall, he always felt women were inferior until he met Irene, who was able to best him. Taking that and morphing it into she is Moriarty was a nice little hat tip and poke at late 1800's idealogy.

 

[Dark Raven]

What was this little detail about blood on her feet when Holmes discovered her in that studio? Whose blood was that supposed to be?