Batman Begins Falcone and Ras

[TomPiltoff]

Watched Begins again last night and I have a question.

In the scene where Crane sprays Falcone with the toxin, Crane alludes to Ras coming to Gotham, which visibly puts Falcone on edge.

How in the world would a guy like Falcone be afraid of Ras? The League of Shadows is, quite obviously, a secret organization.

 

[El Payaso]

Things that are secret to everyone are not to guys like Crane or Falcone.

 

[Armored Avenger]

Falcone knew of the existence of Ras Al Ghul, though maybe not the League of Shadows. Ras could even have been using a fake name when dealing with Falcone, like he did when mentoring Bruce Wayne. And although Falcone may not have known all the details of the plot, he did know some secrets, as he tells Flass "Dont burdon yourself with the secrets of scary people".

 

[TomPiltoff]

Falcone knew of the existence of Ras Al Ghul, though maybe not the League of Shadows. Ras could even have been using a fake name when dealing with Falcone, like he did when mentoring Bruce Wayne. And although Falcone may not have known all the details of the plot, he did know some secrets, as he tells Flass "Dont burdon yourself with the secrets of scary people".

Yeah, exactly my point. Falcone did business with him, so on his end all he knows is that Ras (or his alias) is some guy who can supply a buttload of money and wants these drugs shipped into Gotham.

Things that are secret to everyone are not to guys like Crane or Falcone.

No, I refuse to believe that a common gangster would know about a secret league of ninjas in Tibet.

 

[Two-Face]

Yeah, exactly my point. Falcone did business with him, so on his end all he knows is that Ras (or his alias) is some guy who can supply a buttload of money and wants these drugs shipped into Gotham.



No, I refuse to believe that a common gangster would know about a secret league of ninjas in Tibet.

I think it was in Bhutan...

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Yeah, exactly my point. Falcone did business with him, so on his end all he knows is that Ras (or his alias) is some guy who can supply a buttload of money and wants these drugs shipped into Gotham.

And something that puts Ra's on a higher level of being frightening : he had a purpose! Not killing for fun, or for any poor reason first come, he had a calculated and reasoned purpose that he aims at any costs, without losing it. The end justifies the means. So that's why he's, on film, one of the most threatening villain.

 

[Mr. Socko]

Haha, funny this thread comes up as I just addressed this very point in another topic.

No, I refuse to believe that a common gangster would know about a secret league of ninjas in Tibet.

Are you kidding? The Roman is suppose to be the most powerful underworld Kingpin in all of Gotham. Ra's was basically working with Falcone through Crane. As I said before, Falcone's response should not have been to get jittery when Crane mentioned Ra's coming, hell, Crane himself didn't seem scared. Or maybe I'm just overestimating Falcone.

 

[TomPiltoff]

And something that puts Ra's on a higher level of being frightening : he had a purpose! Not killing for fun, or for any poor reason first come, he had a calculated and reasoned purpose that he aims at any costs, without losing it. The end justifies the means. So that's why he's, on film, one of the most threatening villain.

What does that have to do with my original question?

 

[Damiean Dark]

It was a plot hole plain and simple people should just admit it. not an immense one but still one nethertheless it happens in movies even in "gasp" Batman Begins!!!!

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

How in the world would a guy like Falcone be afraid of Ras?

Here's your question. My post just amplifies Ra's as a legendary and imposing threat, thus a scary villain, meaning that Falcone could be afraid by him, being aware of his way to get things done. It was my way of analysing Ra's ultimate weapon, fear, and that his symbol would make him incorruptible to anyone. It had a lot to do with your question actually, sorry if you don't see it that way

 

[Damiean Dark]

I found falcone completely unthreatening myself for the guy who rules gotham he came of as a simple thug complete with terrible exagerated "forgetaboutit" accent. Tom wilkimson is a good actor but i think this type of character was a bit beyond him they really should have gone with Andy Garcia he can convey a cool menace and look of a mafia don it may be predictable but sometimes thats the way to go.

 

[K.B.]

Also the fact that Garcia actually LOOKS like the Roman.

 

[Lobster Charlie]

I think the whole thing with Falcone/Crane/Ra's is to demonstrate the hierarchy of villains that Batman has to face. Compared to what Crane becomes and what Ra's already is, Falcone is just a common gangster.

I know, I know, he's so much better written in the comics, but given that Begins was about *Batman* (for once), you're not going to get anything Shakespearean when it comes to this guy--he was here and gone in just a few scenes.

To be honest, I loved the entire scene with him and the college-aged Bruce Wayne. Sure, the accent was a little hammy, but I thought it worked. *shrug*

 

[TomPiltoff]

Wow, most of you are missing my point entirely.

Stop discussing the actor who played Falcone, this isn't what the thread is about.

And it also isn't about how intimidating/unintimidating the character of Falcone is.

I'm asking why, in the Batman universe, Carmine Falcone would be afraid of Ras Al Ghul, a man he knows next to nothing about.

 

[Damiean Dark]

Wow, most of you are missing my point entirely.

Stop discussing the actor who played Falcone, this isn't what the thread is about.

And it also isn't about how intimidating/unintimidating the character of Falcone is.

I'm asking why, in the Batman universe, Carmine Falcone would be afraid of Ras Al Ghul, a man he knows next to nothing about.

Why are you surprised? 90% of threads always turn into critiqes of the actors, directors and interpretations of batman. And i think these are valid if falcone was better written,acted and portrayed the discussion that he is afraid of Ras would be more interesting and involved such as it is he was unintimidating, to cliche (sometimes cliche is good but this time it didnt work) and didnt resemble the falcone we know is a ruthless and deadly italian american crime boss.

 

[Mr.E.Nygma]

Wow, most of you are missing my point entirely.

Stop discussing the actor who played Falcone, this isn't what the thread is about.

And it also isn't about how intimidating/unintimidating the character of Falcone is.

I'm asking why, in the Batman universe, Carmine Falcone would be afraid of Ras Al Ghul, a man he knows next to nothing about.

All the threads deviate on subjects that are more or so linked to the main topic. That,s what keeps the thread alive. Giving thoughts, ideas, opinions. You can't direct a discussion with authority. The point of the thread was fulfilled in the upper section of the first page, so it's time to move on. -EDIT : I mean, that's the answers you got for now, I think they were reasonable enough- And if you wanted to know about the Batman universe, you could have been more explicit in your question ;-)
Don't worry, be happy!

 

[Damiean Dark]

I just watched Armande Asante in Hoffa (the one with Jack Nicholson) THATS how Falcone should have been intimidating with the italian american looks.

 

[zerohour films]

Watched Begins again last night and I have a question.

In the scene where Crane sprays Falcone with the toxin, Crane alludes to Ras coming to Gotham, which visibly puts Falcone on edge.

How in the world would a guy like Falcone be afraid of Ras? The League of Shadows is, quite obviously, a secret organization.

Even though it wasn't stated, Falcone told Crane that you don't go into business with a guy without first learning his dirty little secrets or what not (when he revealed he knew about his experiments).

I assume he would do the same with Ras. Probably what he learned put him a little on edge.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Wow, most of you are missing my point entirely.

Stop discussing the actor who played Falcone, this isn't what the thread is about.

And it also isn't about how intimidating/unintimidating the character of Falcone is.

I'm asking why, in the Batman universe, Carmine Falcone would be afraid of Ras Al Ghul, a man he knows next to nothing about.

I do not see the problem here. What does Ra's tell Bruce in the Bhutanese prison?

"I am merely Ducard, but I speak for Ra's Al Ghul, a man greatly feared by the criminal underworld."

Falcone is a leader among the criminal underworld. Ra's would want to have a reputation among the criminal organizations of the world. This does not mean that men like Falcone knows the secret purposes or nature of the League of Shadows, but simply that there is this mysterious Ra's Al Ghul out there who has unmatched resources, and is not to be messed with. Like a top secret society led by Keyser Soze.

 

[zerohour films]

I do not see the problem here. What does Ra's tell Bruce in the Bhutanese prison?

"I am merely Ducard, but I speak for Ra's Al Ghul, a man greatly feared by the criminal underworld."

Falcone is a leader among the criminal underworld. Ra's would want to have a reputation among the criminal organizations of the world. This does not mean that men like Falcone knows the secret purposes or nature of the League of Shadows, but simply that there is this mysterious Ra's Al Ghul out there who has unmatched resources, and is not to be messed with. Like a top secret society led by Keyser Soze.

Good catch, I had forgotten about that line.
Guess that takes care of that then for this one.

I mean if Ras leads the League of Shadows and they are known for "remodeling" cities--it only stands to reason that Falcone would be a little worried about Ras coming to visit Gotham in person. That was his town after all.

 

[Leon the Professional]

It was a plot hole plain and simple people should just admit it. not an immense one but still one nethertheless it happens in movies even in "gasp" Batman Begins!!!!

Perhaps you can better explain your asinine conclusion that it is a "plot hole" given that in the beginning of the movie Ra's himself tells Bruce that his name is known and feared by the criminal underworld, which Falcone is a part of?

 

[El Payaso]

I think the whole thing with Falcone/Crane/Ra's is to demonstrate the hierarchy of villains that Batman has to face. Compared to what Crane becomes and what Ra's already is, Falcone is just a common gangster.

I know, I know, he's so much better written in the comics, but given that Begins was about *Batman* (for once), you're not going to get anything Shakespearean when it comes to this guy--he was here and gone in just a few scenes.

To be honest, I loved the entire scene with him and the college-aged Bruce Wayne. Sure, the accent was a little hammy, but I thought it worked. *shrug*

Oh yes. It's one of my favourite.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I agree, that's the only scene I thought Falcone was good in.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Leon got it earlier. You've completely forgotten about one of Ra's first lines in the movie - he is "greatly feared by the criminal underworld." That explains it in one line. Not to mention that even Bruce has heard of the League ("The vigilantes," he replies at the mention of them) - something he probably picked up in his time spent with criminals. It's pretty obvious that Ra's and the League are near-mythic figures, just like he teaches Bruce to become.

And besides that, there's the obvious reason of simply showing the power and intimidating nature of Ra's. Comparatively, Falcone is a big fish in a small pond.

And just a little opinion to add here, I really liked the portrayal of Falcone. Yeah, he didn't have the grandeur of his comic persona, but he felt to me as an honest, and (I'm gonna use the word, sue me) real modern mafioso. They're not all Don Corleones, not anymore. They're Tony Sopranos and the ilk. Overgrown thugs, really. Lots of money and power, but two-bit low-lifes at heart.

 

[Damiean Dark]

But even Tony Soprano is scarey in a modern goodfellas kind of way Falcone in BB was useless sorry but its true he wasnt scarey and for the most powerful man in gotham he seemed inept (what mafia boss overseas a smuggling operation in person ?)and that accent is hard to listen to "Real" doesnt always EQUAL good, in the comics he is menacing,cool and intelligent but can get angry fast Wilconson just didnt cut it IMO the "realness" of BB is its undoing as a truely amazing Batflick as opposed to merly a good one.