Fantastic Four Philosophy

[Hypestyle]

Some people on the web have brought up the notion that the FF, conceptually, are explorers, and not "crime fighters", as such.

So should this new movie series be more like Star Trek (classic era)? Should it be more philosophically focused with their adventures?

Should the plots try to avoid simply being about fights, or even, necessarily, a violent (explosion capped) climax?

Can the film series get away with being genuinely more cerebral in its storytelling? Can this be Marvel's-- or Fox's-- answer to Interstellar?

 

[justanotherguy]

The F4 are a mixture...which is why this is an IP that is very difficult to write or adapt. Ben and Johnny certainly are characters are that need to be heroic, while Reed is the one trying to avoid conflict (which is why the Illuminati/Incursions storyline so awesome)

 

[UltraSuperGuy]

***** Whip is both a dessert topping and a floor wax.
The FF are both explorers and super heroes.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I wouldn't mind if each FF film had a different style to them like Nolan's Bat films had.

If this movie is a Croenbergian Fly body horror film
Then maybe a sequel could be a pseudo HG Wells Time Machine movie about the nature of humanity.

 

[Tony Stark]

The most apt description of the F4 is that they are "immaginaughts". Ben and Johnny are most certainly fighters, although Sue is the most powerful, and Reed is the brains.

To not have them fight at all is to lose that part of them. To have this be a dark Nolanesque franchise is to lose the family dynamic and the humor, which was just as much there in the Ultimate FF as it was in the 616.

 

[Dasher10]

The most apt description of the F4 is that they are "immaginaughts". Ben and Johnny are most certainly fighters, although Sue is the most powerful, and Reed is the brains.

To not have them fight at all is to lose that part of them. To have this be a dark Nolanesque franchise is to lose the family dynamic and the humor, which was just as much there in the Ultimate FF as it was in the 616.

How does a change in tone get rid of the family dynamic? Sue and Johnny were still raised together. Reed and Sue will presumably get married and give birth to Franklin.

 

[Orba]

Reed and Sue will presumably get married and give birth to Franklin.

Thats rather depends on how much Fox are taking from UFF.

 

[RAE072]

Sue and Johnny were still raised together.

How do you know? Has that been stated as fact somewhere?

What if they're step siblings whose parents got together when they were teenagers and then the mother died?

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

When I think of the FF I think of them as explorers and adventurers more than simply crime fighters. that's Daredevils world

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

How does a change in tone get rid of the family dynamic? Sue and Johnny were still raised together. Reed and Sue will presumably get married and give birth to Franklin.

This

Tone doesn't affect relationships at all.

 

[Tony Stark]

How does a change in tone get rid of the family dynamic? Sue and Johnny were still raised together. Reed and Sue will presumably get married and give birth to Franklin.

Because dark and brooding and witty banter seldom go together.

 

[Tony Stark]

This

Tone doesn't affect relationships at all.

Tone does affect this movie not reflecting the way the comics were in anyway, 616 or Ultimate.

 

[Flint Marko]

Tone does affect this movie not reflecting the way the comics were in anyway, 616 or Ultimate.

Exactly.

 

[Kelly]

This

Tone doesn't affect relationships at all.

Simply calling two people siblings, or married, or friends is NOT the relationship. The relationship is the emotion, the chemistry between the two within those titles that makes up the relationship, so of course TONE impacts the relationship.

In the first two movies Johnny and Sue were "siblings", but the tone, the chemistry between them coming from the script was ..... "*****y" and "whiney" and even "silly" at times.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

In the first two movies Johnny and Sue were "siblings", but the tone, the chemistry between them coming from the script was ..... "*****y" and "whiney" and even "silly" at times.

Is that miscasting though and bad writing?

That's like saying RDJ and Law are Sherlock and Watson but Elementary's Miller and Liu aren't cause they're different genders and can't be Sherlock and Watson without complications that aren't between two men.

Because dark and brooding and witty banter seldom go together.

Huh?

This doesn't apply to FF, but isn't there an entire genre called dark comedy?

 

[Kelly]

Is that miscasting though and bad writing?

That wasn't even my point. Yes the tone can be hurt from miscasting and bad writing...my point was, TONE DOES impact the relationship, because the relationship is not a title, the relationship is what we see, hear and feel from what we see in the movie.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

That wasn't even my point. Yes the tone can be hurt from miscasting and bad writing...my point was, TONE DOES impact the relationship, because the relationship is not a title, the relationship is what we see, hear and feel from what we see in the movie.

Right. I agree. That's true.

But I think the point CWR(and Dasher) was going for was in adaptations, tone doesn't simply account for changing relationships between characters.

Peter Pan and Hook are enemies, the tone of a kid's Disney film vs Peter Pan 03 didn't change that. You can make Hook more sympathetic by giving more info about the character but the relationship between them isn't different.

Other facts come into play. You introduce another villain like Pan 2014 and now Pan and Hook are on the same side, but the tone is similar to the Pan 2003 version.


In adaptations, tone gives context to the info. That's how you can make 10 adaptations of Romeo and Juliet on stage from France to modern America and keep the relationships the same.

 

[psylockolussus]

I think the gritty, more serious and dark tone of the film.will help the relationship between the characters to have more depth. Its not just gonna be the usual brother/sister relationship or the best friends or ex lovers relationship which were seen in the previous Ff films. And with this film we would see how the four first met each other so that will just enrich the story of their relationship with each other.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I don't know if I'd say help.

But the serious tone will definitely allow them to sit down and talk to one another.
Xavier and Mag's chess games are cool for a reason. It allows us to see them actually talking and gain some sense of their relationship.

This incredible thing happens to the Four in Story's FF and the two people that know each other longest don't even sit down to talk about it.

Comedy without drama can come across as superficial. That's why Judd Apatow makes money. He knows how to layer in drama even with a broad comedy.

 

[Kelly]

I think the gritty, more serious and dark tone of the film.will help the relationship between the characters to have more depth. Its not just gonna be the usual brother/sister relationship or the best friends or ex lovers relationship which were seen in the previous Ff films. And with this film we would see how the four first met each other so that will just enrich the story of their relationship with each other.

But that "darker tone" is not needed....strong writing is needed. So really the lighter tone that the Fantastic Four is known for didn't need a change to build up the relationships, it simply needs solid, strong writing.

 

[Dasher10]

Because dark and brooding and witty banter seldom go together.

They've gone well together in plenty of films. You can have a story in a bleak world with some comic relief. In fact, if it doesn't have that, it'll wind up being too dark for audiences.

 

[RAE072]

But that "darker tone" is not needed....strong writing is needed. So really the lighter tone that the Fantastic Four is known for didn't need a change to build up the relationships, it simply needs solid, strong writing.

A gritty, dark, serious tone will help the relationship between the characters to have more depth.

...

 

[UltraSuperGuy]

A gritty, dark, serious tone will help the relationship between the characters to have more depth.

This reads like a line from "How To Write Pretentious Movie Scripts".

 

[Tony Stark]

They've gone well together in plenty of films. You can have a story in a bleak world with some comic relief. In fact, if it doesn't have that, it'll wind up being too dark for audiences.

That has never been part of the fantastic four. Joel Shumaker had more precedent for doing Batman and Robin the way he did, than Trank has to make this disaster of a F4 film.

 

[psylockolussus]

But that "darker tone" is not needed....strong writing is needed. So really the lighter tone that the Fantastic Four is known for didn't need a change to build up the relationships, it simply needs solid, strong writing.

We already got the lighter tone in the previous films and Fox and the creative team are trying to give us some different from the previous Ff films.... just because Fantastic Four didnt have a dark tone in the comics.. it doesnt mean it wont work in the big screen. It all comes down to execution.