Father/Son moments...

[NotFadeAway]

Hopefully Father/ Son moments between Clark and Jonathan and not Jor-el/Superman...

for me, I find more Jonathan Kent and Clark scenes more relatable. Jor-El/Fortress is just a memory, but I rather see more JK scenes, i mean Clark was raised by the Kents, so I think we need to see those scenes because it shows where Clark got his values from .

This. A thousand times this.

Jonathan Kent is Clark Kent's father, not Jor-El. Clark is from Kansas, not Krypton. If we're going to get emotional and character development from a parental figure, it should be from the one who actually raised him, not from the big giant head in the Arctic.

Yes and the Birthright route would do exactly that.

All these posts are spot on. After being treated like backwood hicks in the Donner film, it's time for some Kent love.

 

[Kurosawa]

I meant both as in father/son moments between both Jonathan and Jor-El,but yeah that too.

It's like there's some sortof schism between fans who prefer the Kryptonian side of Superman and fans who prefer his human upbringing. What's wrong with just having both? You don't think Jor-El would want to guide his son somehow to make sure he doesn't become some power mad maniac and destroy the world?

The schism between Superman fans goes a lot deeper than that, but it is a good example of it. It basically all goes back to Pre/Post Crisis and fans who want a Superman based in the ideals of his creators or in the ideals of a British-Born, Canadian raised Marvel artist who does not and cannot understand Superman and the Jewish-American experience of Siegel and Shuster's 20th Century upbringing. Basically it's a question of do you feel Superman is Jerry Siegel's character or John Byrne's.

As for Jor-El or Jonathan Kent, I say neither. Jor-El should be dead on Krypton and with no silly AI guiding Superman, and Pa Kent should have raised him but die when he reaches adulthood. Superman looks like such a worthless little puss next to Batman because he always runs home to Mommy and Daddy for comfort, advice and pie while Batman figures out his own problems like an adult. Along with making Clark the real person, keeping the Kents alive was the two big mistakes Byrne made, and they prove that he does not get Superman and ran away from the challenge of writing him by turning him into a different character than what his TRUE creators intended him to be.

 

[SuperDaniel]

right...

 

[The Batman]

While i dont necessarily agree that neither should have a developed relationship with clark, i'll take neither instead of a superman who says "jonathan, you're my only dad. Screw the biological one who DIED saving my life."

People who bash donner's superman constantly act like its the only media superman. We've seen Superman have a relationship with the kents for the past twenty years in media: L & C, STAS, and Smallville, which wisely decided that Clark should have a relationship with BOTH. Clark soley relying on Jonathan and Martha for parental guidance is NOT something that haven't done when portraying Superman onscreen.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

It would be stupid for Kal-El to ignore Jor-El and his Kryptonian heritage

 

[NotFadeAway]

While i dont necessarily agree that neither should have a developed relationship with clark, i'll take neither instead of a superman who says "jonathan, you're my only dad. Screw the biological one who DIED saving my life."
People who bash donner's superman constantly act like its the only media superman. We've seen Superman have a relationship with the kents for the past twenty years in media: L & C, STAS, and Smallville, which wisely decided that Clark should have a relationship with BOTH. Clark soley relying on Jonathan and Martha for parental guidance is NOT something that haven't done when portraying Superman onscreen.

Jor-El, and the rest of Krypton for that matter, were going too die regardless. It's not like Jor-El made some big sacrifice like his own life to save Kal-El's. He just got him off the titanic before it sank.

 

[Franklin Richards]

67 EXT. KENT FARMHOUSE - DAY

A small farm on a dirt road facing a wheatfield. A barn stands at one end of the front yard area. CLARK, running in a blur suddenly appears by the tree growing next to the front gate, stops. CAMERA PANS: coming down the road: the convertible with the FOOTBALL PLAYERS and CHEERLEADERS. CLARK leans nonchalantly against the tree as the car and its amazed occupants roll to a stop, stare with wonder.

SUSIE
Clark ....?

FOOTBALL PLAYER
How the hell did you...

CLARK
(deadpan)
I ran.

FOOTBALL PLAYER
(pause- to others)
Told you he was a weirdo. Let's get out of here...

He guns the car, irritated, roars off. CLARK breaks into a thin, self-satisfied smile.

JONATHAN'S VOICE
Been showin' off a bit, have you, son?



JONATHAN KENT, much older now, stands with stooped shoulders, a scythe in one hand. He looks care-worn, but deeply concerned as CLARK joins him in the yard.

CLARK
I don't mean...to show off, Dad.
It's just that...

JONATHAN
(total understanding)
You got all these amazin' things you can do
and sometimes you think you'll go bust if
you don't let other people know ..

CLARK
(misty-eyed frustration)
I could score a touchdown every time I had
the ball. Every time, Dad. Is it showing off
for a person to do what he's capable of? Is
a bird Showing off when it flies?
(no reply)
I'm sorry, Dad. I know I made a promise,
but I just don't think I can handle it anymore.

CLARK turns away. JONATHAN watches with compassion.

JONATHAN
Look, son. You've been nothin' but a blessing to your mother and me. In the beginning - when you first
came -we thought they'd take you away from us if
people found out about. . . the things you could do.
But a man thinks different as he gets older, 'thinks...
better. Wiser. Starts to see things clear. And I
know now that as sure as we're gonna see the moon
tonight there's a reason why you're here. Don't ask me
what reason, don't ask me whose reason. But whoever, and whatever, there's one thing I do know...
(soft smile)
It ain't to score touchdowns.

CLARK turns, nods, understanding. JONATHAN puts his arm around him.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

That's a great scene...but also plenty of good scenes between Kal-El and Jor-El

 

[The Batman]

That scene is why i roll my eyes everytime someone whines about the kents in the donner version.

Not to mention the ONLY reason Superman does his spin around the world is because he remembers what jonathan told him. He clearly breaks Jor El's rule because of Jonathan.

 

[NotFadeAway]

That scene is why i roll my eyes everytime someone whines about the kents in the donner version.

Not to mention the ONLY reason Superman does his spin around the world is because he remembers what jonathan told him. He clearly breaks Jor El's rule because of Jonathan.

Could have picked a better person to break the rule for.

 

[SuperDaniel]

Yeah...Superman should get advice from both but I dont want to see a floating head in the fortress who knows everything his song is going to do in the future ever again!!!!

 

[Kal-El.9859]

poor chain smoking Lois...and he left poor little Jimmy out in the middle of nowhere surrounded by snakes!

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Yeah...Superman should get advice from both but I dont want to see a floating head in the fortress who knows everything his song is going to do in the future ever again!!!!

I kinda like how they did Jor-El in Superman Returns, but just hearing a voice from within the Fortress would be fine

 

[SuperDaniel]

I like the Birthright idea. Jor-el giving Clark a visual encyclopedia about Krypton and all.

 

[BH/HHH]

I like the Birthright idea. Jor-el giving Clark a visual encyclopedia about Krypton and all.

Same here

 

[Kurosawa]

I love Jor-El and Jonathan Kent both as characters, it's just that the best thing for Superman is for him not to have the parental albatross of either (or Lara/Martha either for that matter) dragging him down. He needs to be independent.

 

[BH/HHH]

Nah I think having his Mother and Father back at the farm when he needs to talk is the way to go. Look how it was done to perfection (in my opinion) in Superman the Animated Series and Superman was still very independent in that.

I do think however that they shouldn't go the AI Jor-El route like in the previous films.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

That was vide-El (DV- El, El- Ray player?). Not Ai Jor-El, Ai Jor-El would be the Smallville Jor-El. And I quite like that. If there is a Fortress, it should be able to temporarily reconstruct Lara and Jor-El, I'd only do it once or twice and for the rest he can go to Ma & Pa.

 

[BH/HHH]

That was vide-El (DV- El, El- Ray player?). Not Ai Jor-El, Ai Jor-El would be the Smallville Jor-El. And I quite like that. If there is a Fortress, it should be able to temporarily reconstruct Lara and Jor-El, I'd only do it once or twice and for the rest he can go to Ma & Pa.

No its also AI, AI means Artificial Intelligence, this was the same in the Donner movie.

 

[KRIM]

I personally think it's quite cheap to re-animate his dead father, in any form. I'm much more fond of the notion that Clark's only memory of his biological parents is that they rescued him from impending death. That's a very powerful impression on any child. No baggage of personality or how they might have been as parents. Just a single instance of being compassionate and selfless heroes.

His morals should stem from the Kents, and his upbringing compounded with the unraveling of his unknown past should push him to the pedestal of a savior.

 

[Kurosawa]

Keeping Ma and Pa alive and/or keeping a Jor-El and Lara AI around to nanny Superman is just not a good idea.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I don't mind Mom back in Smallville but Dad HAS to die.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

Pa Kent must die...that's a given!

 

[Kurosawa]

My issue with killing Jonathan and leaving Martha alive is that is more "gospel according to Dick Donner"...kill them both or kill neither and let Superman stay Ritchie Cunningham while Batman is the Fonz. Which is and has always been total fail.

Best choice is to kill them both in some manner, and have Clark fail to save them.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Well they can both be dead but it has to be natural causes. I like chocolate in my peanut butter but I don't want no Batman in my Superman.