Favorite Spider-Man film so far.

[DACrowe]

I don't understand the double standard.

People have no problem saying SM1 is much more liked by the public based on a few friends or hype members.

But when there's a database that collects hundreds of thousands of people's votes, we have to ignore it because it's not enough votes or because it has to be due to one-sided spamming that ASM is winning.

I'm sorry but if RT's hundreds of thousand of votes are useless then so is whatever method you use to determine SM1 is more popular than ASM.

I think it is an age thing. Everyone I ever talked to about TASM had my reaction of "meh...it's okay. Kind of pointless" or they didn't ever see it. While I notice most of those who LOVE TASM on this board, and claim all their friends do, registered on the Hype in 2009 or later.

I think for people who were around for the Raimi ones when they were in theaters, they see a remake 10 years later as unneeded. And on a biased note, I honestly do not think it did the origin nearly as well as SM1 period because it screwed up Ben's death, With Great Power, and made Peter selfish. I also do not think Webb brought much to the table in terms of action compared to Raimi.

However, those who only came of age when SM3 was being released or not at all, are more welcoming to a new Spidey. These are all generalities about those who are not comic fans, but I feel like if you are old enough to drink then you probably will be very apathetic to a sudden remake than if not.

 

[Brain Damage]

I think it is an age thing. Everyone I ever talked to about TASM had my reaction of "meh...it's okay. Kind of pointless" or they didn't ever see it. While I notice most of those who LOVE TASM on this board, and claim all their friends do, registered on the Hype in 2009 or later.

I think for people who were around for the Raimi ones when they were in theaters, they see a remake 10 years later as unneeded. And on a biased note, I honestly do not think it did the origin nearly as well as SM1 period because it screwed up Ben's death, With Great Power, and made Peter selfish. I also do not think Webb brought much to the table in terms of action compared to Raimi.

However, those who only came of age when SM3 was being released or not at all, are more welcoming to a new Spidey. These are all generalities about those who are not comic fans, but I feel like if you are old enough to drink then you probably will be very apathetic to a sudden remake than if not.

I've seen every Spider-Man film in theaters, have been a devoted Spidey fan since the mid 90s and I loved ASM to death. It's got its fair share of flaws, but what works really works. Namely, the relationships between all of the characters. Peter feeling like a real teenager. A love interest that went beyond "boy, I'd sure like to get the girl next door". An Aunt May and Uncle Ben who were real people who sometimes got into fights with their teenager (just like, you guessed it, in real life). The scene where Peter forgets to pick up Aunt May and Uncle Ben reams him out for it, while Aunt May tries to say it's no big deal, is one of the most powerful scenes in any comic book film. Not to mention, Uncle Ben's death was done better than it ever has been in any medium. The fact that he died over something as stupid as a chocolate milk, and that he died really being the only one do the right thing - that's what makes it so damn effective.

Having said all of that, Spider-Man 2 is still my favorite. And that's because it's overall a more cohesive film. ASM fumbled a bit in the second-half of the second act/the third act, a lot of which, unfortunately, is because of deleted scenes. But Spider-Man 2 is a terrific story from start to finish. And just the right amount of cheese for me.

I love the Raimi films for capturing that Lee-Ditko vibe, but as someone posted earlier, the first half of ASM is the best part of any Spidey film.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

I've seen every Spider-Man film in theaters, have been a devoted Spidey fan since the mid 90s and I loved ASM to death. It's got its fair share of flaws, but what works really works. Namely, the relationships between all of the characters. Peter feeling like a real teenager. A love interest that went beyond "boy, I'd sure like to get the girl next door". An Aunt May and Uncle Ben who were real people who sometimes got into fights with their teenager (just like, you guessed it, in real life). The scene where Peter forgets to pick up Aunt May and Uncle Ben reams him out for it, while Aunt May tries to say it's no big deal, is one of the most powerful scenes in any comic book film. Not to mention, Uncle Ben's death was done better than it ever has been in any medium. The fact that he died over something as stupid as a chocolate milk, and that he died really being the only one do the right thing - that's what makes it so damn effective.

Having said all of that, Spider-Man 2 is still my favorite. And that's because it's overall a more cohesive film. ASM fumbled a bit in the second-half of the second act/the third act, a lot of which, unfortunately, is because of deleted scenes. But Spider-Man 2 is a terrific story from start to finish. And just the right amount of cheese for me.

I love the Spidey films for capturing that Lee-Ditko vibe, but as someone posted earlier, the first half of ASM is the best part of any Spidey film.

This pretty much sums up my feelings perfectly.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I'm older and ASM was the first Spider-man movie I enjoyed. Mostly because the characterization Peter Parker, Spider-man, Flash Thompson, and Mary Jane never felt right in the Raimi films. Then you had the over-done cheesy acting, organics, ruined Gwen Stacy story arc, random awkward moments, omitted classic Green Goblin mask, Sandman killing UNcle Ben, skinny/nonspeaking venom, etc and it became borderline offensive as a Spider-man fan.

I can see how many in the public who have no clue about the comics and get caught in the hype of the first movie event would by loyal to the first movie. They simply don't know any better and follow the crowd.

Even so, there's no evidence that the majority of the general public who did give ASM a fair chance mostly preferred SM1. None.

I'm not sure why people constantly assume that or treat it like established fact. Seems like an arrogant presumption based purely on box office gross and scattered Raimi fandom.

 

[DACrowe]

I've seen every Spider-Man film in theaters, have been a devoted Spidey fan since the mid 90s and I loved ASM to death. It's got its fair share of flaws, but what works really works. Namely, the relationships between all of the characters. Peter feeling like a real teenager. A love interest that went beyond "boy, I'd sure like to get the girl next door". An Aunt May and Uncle Ben who were real people who sometimes got into fights with their teenager (just like, you guessed it, in real life). The scene where Peter forgets to pick up Aunt May and Uncle Ben reams him out for it, while Aunt May tries to say it's no big deal, is one of the most powerful scenes in any comic book film. Not to mention, Uncle Ben's death was done better than it ever has been in any medium. The fact that he died over something as stupid as a chocolate milk, and that he died really being the only one do the right thing - that's what makes it so damn effective.

Having said all of that, Spider-Man 2 is still my favorite. And that's because it's overall a more cohesive film. ASM fumbled a bit in the second-half of the second act/the third act, a lot of which, unfortunately, is because of deleted scenes. But Spider-Man 2 is a terrific story from start to finish. And just the right amount of cheese for me.

I love the Raimi films for capturing that Lee-Ditko vibe, but as someone posted earlier, the first half of ASM is the best part of any Spidey film.

I'm older and ASM was the first Spider-man movie I enjoyed. Mostly because the characterization Peter Parker, Spider-man, Flash Thompson, and Mary Jane never felt right in the Raimi films. Then you had the over-done cheesy acting, organics, ruined Gwen Stacy story arc, random awkward moments, omitted classic Green Goblin mask, Sandman killing UNcle Ben, skinny/nonspeaking venom, etc and it became borderline offensive as a Spider-man fan.

I can see how many in the public who have no clue about the comics and get caught in the hype of the first movie event would by loyal to the first movie. They simply don't know any better and follow the crowd.

Even so, there's no evidence that the majority of the general public who did give ASM a fair chance mostly preferred SM1. None.

I'm not sure why people constantly assume that or treat it like established fact. Seems like an arrogant presumption based purely on box office gross and scattered Raimi fandom.

I was referring to general audiences. Anyone I have talked to in their 20s who do not read comics (or haven't since they were kids) all have fond memories of the Raimi films and either found TASM to be boring or just didn't see it.

I understand why fans prefer TASM. Though, I honestly do think Raimi captured the tone of the comics, at least of Stan Lee's Silver Age Excelsior! style, better than Webb did. However, yes I do think Stone's Gwen is better than Dunst's MJ (though neither are like their comic book counterparts) and that Garfield has a better understanding of the comic character over Maguire. I say Garfield, because the writers, director and/or studio clearly do not as they turned Peter into kind of a selfish tool in an effort to arbitrarily differentiate themselves from SM1. Still, Garfield has more of the instantaneous personality of Spidey/PP from the comics.

But for general moviegoers? That stuff is kind of irrelevant. And in all honesty, SM1 and SM2 are much better paced, written and told films. Plus, despite 5-10 years of special effects advancements over Raimi, Webb could not top his visual eye for fight scenes in SM2 and SM3. I think like how Superman Returns is forgotten even in the wake of a 30 year old predecessor, TASM will fall away compared to scenes like SM1's final swing, the train fight, the upside down kiss, etc.

Granted, TASM2 could blow the Raimi trilogy out of the water. There is plenty of room for improvement. However, for those who just want a good movie with the character and were old enough to see both versions in theater, overall they tend to like the Raimi ones much better. Then again, one could argue it is nostalgia, so whatever.

 

[DACrowe]

I also want to throw out that while I liked the fight between Peter and Ben, though working os hard to not say with "Great Power" strikes me as silly, his death was very poorly handled. Instead of yelling for the cops he TACKLES a guy on the side of the street running around waving a gun. He comes off as kind of idiotic. I appreciate how it will be hard to retcon it into Sandman (though look out for the star guy to return with sand powers ), but the comic book faithfulness and simplicity of the SM1 telling worked so much better. The hallway, the look Peter gives the promoter, it all felt iconic.

 

[flickchick85]

I think it is an age thing. Everyone I ever talked to about TASM had my reaction of "meh...it's okay. Kind of pointless" or they didn't ever see it. While I notice most of those who LOVE TASM on this board, and claim all their friends do, registered on the Hype in 2009 or later.

I think for people who were around for the Raimi ones when they were in theaters, they see a remake 10 years later as unneeded. And on a biased note, I honestly do not think it did the origin nearly as well as SM1 period because it screwed up Ben's death, With Great Power, and made Peter selfish. I also do not think Webb brought much to the table in terms of action compared to Raimi.

However, those who only came of age when SM3 was being released or not at all, are more welcoming to a new Spidey. These are all generalities about those who are not comic fans, but I feel like if you are old enough to drink then you probably will be very apathetic to a sudden remake than if not.

No offense, DA, as you know I respect your opinions and love your posts, but I think you're seeing what you want to see on that one. I'm 27-years-old, was 17 when SM1 came out, and saw all the Raimi films theaters. I saw SM1 and SM2 multiple times in theaters. It's not an age thing with me, my brothers or my friends who are roughly the same age as me.

And as others have pointed out here, that doesn't seem to be the case for them, either.

We're all biased here. You for Raimi's origin, me for Webb's. But I'm not trying to project my bias onto "reasons" the other side must feel the way they do. Some of us simply prefer Webb's version over Raimi's. No reason to try to make excuses for or rationalize why we may feel that way, other than that we like elements of the film better, enough for us to prefer it overall.

And I'd like to point out that it's the over-18 portion of the general audience that gave TASM an "A-" CinemaScore. Yes, the under-18 crowd gave it the higher score of "A," but an "A-" is hardly a "meh" reaction either. I know "the people you've talked to" were "meh" on TASM, but the people I've talked to preferred it over Raimi's. And that's just the way the world works. I think the fact that we all tend to associate with mostly like-minded people might have something to do with it, but it is what it is.

 

[Brain Damage]

I also want to throw out that while I liked the fight between Peter and Ben, though working os hard to not say with "Great Power" strikes me as silly, his death was very poorly handled. Instead of yelling for the cops he TACKLES a guy on the side of the street running around waving a gun. He comes off as kind of idiotic. I appreciate how it will be hard to retcon it into Sandman (though look out for the star guy to return with sand powers ), but the comic book faithfulness and simplicity of the SM1 telling worked so much better. The hallway, the look Peter gives the promoter, it all felt iconic.

I like how you argue your points. You don't see it nearly enough on these boards. Respect

But idiotic? The gun was RIGHT there. By the time he managed to get the cops there, the guy would A.) have been long gone and B.) possibly hurt/killed somebody.

B.) is the main reason Ben dove for that gun on the spot. You might call that idiotic, I call it heroic.

 

[DACrowe]

No offense, DA, as you know I respect your opinions and love your posts, but I think you're seeing what you want to see on that one. I'm 27-years-old, was 17 when SM1 came out, and saw all the Raimi films theaters. I saw SM1 and SM2 multiple times in theaters. It's not an age thing with me, my brothers or my friends who are roughly the same age as me.

And as others have pointed out here, that doesn't seem to be the case for them, either.

We're all biased here. You for Raimi's origin, me for Webb's. But I'm not trying to project my bias onto "reasons" the other side must feel the way they do. Some of us simply prefer Webb's version over Raimi's. No reason to try to make excuses for or rationalize why we may feel that way, other than that we like elements of the film better, enough for us to prefer it overall.

And I'd like to point out that it's the over-18 portion of the general audience that gave TASM an "A-" CinemaScore. Yes, the under-18 crowd gave it the higher score of "A," but an "A-" is hardly a "meh" reaction either. I know "the people you've talked to" were "meh" on TASM, but the people I've talked to preferred it over Raimi's. And that's just the way the world works. I think the fact that we all tend to associate with mostly like-minded people might have something to do with it, but it is what it is.

Fair enough. Though I know, again, you are a fan of the comic book character who (at least on the surface, if not thematically) Garfield resembled more. For comic fans Raimi changed A LOT and Webb is a breath of fresh air for those who were annoyed, though I think Webb strayed much further from the beautiful simplicity of Peter's origin in the comics but that's another thing.

Maybe it is just randomness, but non-readers seemed very apathetic about TASM, if they did not downright dislike it. I do contribute that to it's lesser RT score than SM1 or SM2, its much smaller box office and even the "-" in CinemaScore. Ultimately, I do not think it struck a big chord with people. Another way to put it is that a lot of TASM fans compare its box office and hype drop off to BB following B&R. I will be STUNNED if TASM2 crosses $300 million domestic or makes anywhere near SM1 did when adjusted for inflation (around TDK's U.S. box office).

Of course box office popularity does not equate to quality and nothing I can say will convince you Raimi is better. However, I just do not think older viewers are very taken with the Webb approach. That is why that even with 3D and inflation, I do not think its sequel will grow that much at the box office, much less touch what the Raimi films did. There is a lack of enthusiasm for them from non-fans. Just an observation.

 

[flickchick85]

Fair enough. Though I know, again, you are a fan of the comic book character who (at least on the surface, if not thematically) Garfield resembled more. For comic fans Raimi changed A LOT and Webb is a breath of fresh air for those who were annoyed, though I think Webb strayed much further from the beautiful simplicity of Peter's origin in the comics but that's another thing.

Maybe it is just randomness, but non-readers seemed very apathetic about TASM, if they did not downright dislike it. I do contribute that to it's lesser RT score than SM1 or SM2, its much smaller box office and even the "-" in CinemaScore. Ultimately, I do not think it struck a big chord with people. Another way to put it is that a lot of TASM fans compare its box office and hype drop off to BB following B&R. I will be STUNNED if TASM2 crosses $300 million domestic or makes anywhere near SM1 did when adjusted for inflation (around TDK's U.S. box office).

Of course box office popularity does not equate to quality and nothing I can say will convince you Raimi is better. However, I just do not think older viewers are very taken with the Webb approach. That is why that even with 3D and inflation, I do not think its sequel will grow that much at the box office, much less touch what the Raimi films did. There is a lack of enthusiasm for them from non-fans. Just an observation.

I think everything you're saying you're saying is accurate to a certain extent, except when you speak for the general audience, which I don't think either of us is in a position to do. Your personal experience tells you one thing about how average moviegoers felt about it, and my personal experience has told me something very different.

But the truth is that TASM's franchise will always have the handicap of coming second. The circumstances surrounding SM1's release were completely different, so I agree that TASM's box office will never come close to that franchise's (when adjusted for inflation), but where we disagree is that I don't think that will be speaking to the quality of the product at all, and more to the change in the superhero movie landscape over the course of the decade and audiences' (mild) fatigue over the genre (and character - this was the 4th Spidey film in 10 years after all. He's hardly a novelty anymore).

I believe TASM2 WILL see financial growth, though, because it won't be pushing another origin on audiences that they feel like they just saw a few years ago. The prospect of a new Spidey story they haven't seen should increase interest quite a bit, I suspect.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

If ASM2 has a strong trailer and gets better reviews than ASM, I think 300 m is very much in the cards.

It doesn't have to outshine juggernauts Avengers and TDKR next year and it will be the first major movie event of the year. Possibly the best opening weekend to have.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think TASM2 will see a BO jump, but I think people are overestimating how much that will end up being. I think it will be more like Iron Man 2 to Iron Man than TDK to BB. Small growth, but not a ton.

 

[flickchick85]

I think TASM2 will see a BO jump, but I think people are overestimating how much that will end up being. I think it will be more like Iron Man 2 to Iron Man than TDK to BB. Small growth, but not a ton.

I don't think anyone's expecting a TDK-esque jump, tbh. That was rare thing indeed.

 

[Anno_Domini]

If ASM2 has a strong trailer and gets better reviews than ASM, I think 300 m is very much in the cards.

It doesn't have to outshine juggernauts Avengers and TDKR next year and it will be the first major movie event of the year. Possibly the best opening weekend to have.

I don't think it'll reach TDK, TDKR or Avengers numbers at all, but I have faith it'll do very well compared to the last four Spidey films and will hopefully be a Spidey film that I will love as the last time it happened would be ten years ago by that time.

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah, though I am very ambivalent about Electro, he is a character who may actually improve with a simplified movie presence (while I thought they really ruined the Lizard). Beyond that, seeing MJ and Gwen in the same movie shows that it is actually breaking formula and doing something that was unique to Spidey comics. It gives me hope.

 

[Sentinel X]

1. Spider-man
2. Spider-man 2
3. The Amazing Spider-man
4. Spider-man 3 (yuck)

 

[Donnie Darko]

I definitely think ASM2 will do bigger numbers. I was completely turned off by the idea of redoing Spidey's so soon after Raimi's films, and it put me off from seeing the movie for quite a while (plus I found the trailers to be underwhelming). I finally saw it at the $2 theater when it came there. I think a lot of people felt like me, and waited as long as I did, or even longer to check it out on dvd. I think most people in that category enjoyed it more than they expected, so they will be more likely to go see ASM2.

 

[Marvel]

I think TASM2 will see a BO jump, but I think people are overestimating how much that will end up being. I think it will be more like Iron Man 2 to Iron Man than TDK to BB. Small growth, but not a ton.

I tend to think the opposite. A LOT of non-fans really did not like ASM at all. Word of mouth was not kind to that film, again from the non-fanboys.

The character will always draw but it will do the same numbers if not a bit less. It all depends on the competition and the quality of the film itself. If it gets savaged by critics, it'll tank faster then you would think.

ASM did ride the Raimi trilogy coat tails no matter what anyone tries to say. The movie itself was poorly written any way you cut it. I like the new cast a lot and hope they can find a proper script this time around.

 

[kedrell]

Still way better than Raimi's fluff.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I tend to think the opposite. A LOT of non-fans really did not like ASM at all. Word of mouth was not kind to that film, again from the non-fanboys.

The character will always draw but it will do the same numbers if not a bit less. It all depends on the competition and the quality of the film itself. If it gets savaged by critics, it'll tank faster then you would think.

ASM did ride the Raimi trilogy coat tails no matter what anyone tries to say. The movie itself was poorly written any way you cut it. I like the new cast a lot and hope they can find a proper script this time around.

How did ASM ride Raimi's coat tails?

The biggest backlash from critics and fanboys was that it re-did the origin and ”Sony screwed Raimi on SM4”.

If the movie wasn't so divisive because of the Raimi baggage it would've gotten a boost critically and at the box office.

 

[The Joker]

Still way better than Raimi's fluff.

Subjective.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Subjective.

As is everything in this thread.

 

[The Joker]

As is everything in this thread.

No, some things are factual, such as critical and financial success, along with popularity with fans and audiences.

 

[DACrowe]

How did ASM ride Raimi's coat tails?

The biggest backlash from critics and fanboys was that it re-did the origin and ”Sony screwed Raimi on SM4”.

If the movie wasn't so divisive because of the Raimi baggage it would've gotten a boost critically and at the box office.

I will say it followed his formula way too much of one love interest (Gwen instead of MJ) who is the girl next store that Peter woos while fighting a fallen father figure victim who is an accident of a science experiment gone wrong. Toss in the origin and we really have seen it ALL before.

Still, I do not think its success was due to Raimi's films. I think its success was due to being Spidey. Likely the close proximity hurt TASM's box office. Also that and audiences were not blown away by it like they were with the first two.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

No, some things are factual, such as critical and financial success, along with popularity with fans and audiences.

Critic reviews are based on the subjective.

Popularity and financial success are zero indication of quality. The Bayformer movies and Spider-man 3 made more money than most movies and they're complete trash.