Iron Man First review of Iron Man

[The Major]

Which again leads me to the question ;
will there truly ever be a comic book adaptation that is perfect?

Comic adaptions aren't identical. There is no true formula for every comic franchise. Even comic super-hero franchises have a lot of variety. What works for Superman won't work for Wonder Woman which won't work for Blue Beetle.

Like all films they require people who have the necessary skills to do their jobs competently, respect the material, do their research and make a good product that the fans and the public enjoy.

Of course not, "perfect" is infinitely subjective and over the course of history all of these heroes have been written in many different ways, as people pointed out, Stark is often funny in his comic as well as serious, and even hateable.

Stark has been funny occasionally, the most recent example was in The Ultimates, but he's not a comedian.

As you say he is a complex character, and his franchise has incredible potential on top of that, which should make it easier to find options in where they want to take him.

So thats why its so hard for directors and writers to strike a balance in their films, and sometimes they just give up because they know how hard to please fans are anyways, so they just make a generic movie.

It's hard but not impossible. One thing they must do is be respectful, faithful to the property and deliver a movie that everyone can like. That's a huge burden but one they signed up for willingly. If they can't do it they shouldn't have stepped up in the first place.

Not every person in Hollywood is suited for specific comic properties, either. Burton worked on Batman but he'd be wrong for Superman. Mark Steven Johnson was a huge fan of DD and he is talented but he still failed to make DD work on screen. Not because he didn't understand the concept, I thought he did, but because he simply wasn't the right man for the job. Fox wanting it toned down into a family film didn't help.

I'm sure this'll be better then generic, and surely a balance has been struck, but they had to market it the way they have.

That's the question. We don't know if Favreau has gotten the balance perfect until we see it.

 

[brandon_jk]

Did you see the movie? Most of the time the TF never appeared and the action scenes were very short.

It was the random, unlikable humans that dominated the film, not the TF.

As I said it before it couldn't decide whether it was an action movie or an American Pie sequel. Bay wanted to do both and ended up failing on both counts.

in transformers there are about 9 action sequences and the final battle alone lasts 22 minutes.

 

[The Major]

in transformers there are about 9 action sequences

Some action scenes worked but they were not all handled right.

Some just concluded off-screen entirely!

To much of the film was focused on bad comedy and human characters who were either stupid or incompetent or had barely any use. If the script had been better this wouldn't be a big a problem as it was.

and the final battle alone lasts 22 minutes.

The final battle had some good moments, particarly with the soldiers. What hurt it the most was that it was Sam who killed Megatron with the cube in an anti-climatic way.

Bay expects me to believe Megatron is stupid enough to stay still while a frail human gets close enough to hit him with the cube? One just minutes earlier he tried to kill? That Optimus would just stay in the background while this occurs. That a great military commander like him could only think he needs to sacrifice himself to beat Megatron instead of having no back-up plans in place?

 

[The Guard]

Some of the battles did leave something to be desired, but I think the point was to show the humans and robots in the middle of a pitched, ongoing battle, and not neccessarily how it was going, except for Sam, Prime and Megatron. Was the defeat of Megatron a tad anticlimactic? I guess so, after that battle. But it did fit into the theme and storyline of the movie well enough. There's got to be some suspension of disbelief. I mean, in any real sense, Megatron would have killed Sam immediately and just taken the cube for himself. He wanted the cube, so he came to get the cube. Sam jammed it into him, and Megatron overloaded.

What kind of back up plan was Prime supposed to have, exactly? He had himself, who clearly couldn't beat Megatron, and the other Transformers, and if Prime couldn't defeat Megatron, what's to make us think they would stand a chance? Besides, they were off protecting the humans and distracting the other Decepticons so that they couldn't help Megatron against Prime.

Sacrificing yourself to prevent the villain from obtaining ultimate power is a backup plan, and a fairly noble one at that.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

Other reviews have been better so I'm not going to say that this guy is right or wrong but I wouldn't be surprised if the movie was FF quality. Funny thing is, I kinda liked the deeply flawed cheesey little flick. One thing about his review that bothered me was him acting like BB and X2 are the greatest comicbook flicks ever made. I would take Spider-Man 1 & 2, Blade 1 & 2 and Hellboy over both of those films any day of the week.

 

[Bubonic]

Comic adaptions aren't identical. There is no true formula for every comic franchise. Even comic super-hero franchises have a lot of variety. What works for Superman won't work for Wonder Woman which won't work for Blue Beetle.

Like all films they require people who have the necessary skills to do their jobs competently, respect the material, do their research and make a good product that the fans and the public enjoy.



Stark has been funny occasionally, the most recent example was in The Ultimates, but he's not a comedian.

As you say he is a complex character, and his franchise has incredible potential on top of that, which should make it easier to find options in where they want to take him.



It's hard but not impossible. One thing they must do is be respectful, faithful to the property and deliver a movie that everyone can like. That's a huge burden but one they signed up for willingly. If they can't do it they shouldn't have stepped up in the first place.

Not every person in Hollywood is suited for specific comic properties, either. Burton worked on Batman but he'd be wrong for Superman. Mark Steven Johnson was a huge fan of DD and he is talented but he still failed to make DD work on screen. Not because he didn't understand the concept, I thought he did, but because he simply wasn't the right man for the job. Fox wanting it toned down into a family film didn't help.



That's the question. We don't know if Favreau has gotten the balance perfect until we see it.

Oh definitely, each comic character needs to be done the right way, they each have their own tone, and thats why a script that captures the essence of the character, a director that can make that vision reality, and actors that can bring to life the characters are all essential elements.

And certainly, you can have a director and group of actors embarrassed about making the movie, not treating the material with respect and seriousness just because its a comic book... But generally I think Hollywood is getting over that preconception.

I really hope this movie pulls it off, but I still think people are expecting too much from the first movie.
They expect the origin to be properly handled, proper development of the main actors and antagonist, great action throughout, and ontop of all that, which we are getting, they complain that Starks alcoholism be addressed.

I think it is obviously being hinted at if he is hardly without a drink during the movie.
But if they crammed stuff in from Demon in a Bottle, either the movie would have to be 45 minutes longer, our it be fit into the existing 126 minutes, and then it would be flammed for rushing a storyline and confusing people.

This movie will do great, we are basically guaranteed a sequel, why not have fun this time around, and once all the formalities are out of the way, we can buckle down and tackle Starks alcoholism.

 

[The Major]

Oh definitely, each comic character needs to be done the right way, they each have their own tone, and thats why a script that captures the essence of the character, a director that can make that vision reality, and actors that can bring to life the characters are all essential elements.

And certainly, you can have a director and group of actors embarrassed about making the movie, not treating the material with respect and seriousness just because its a comic book... But generally I think Hollywood is getting over that preconception.

I hope you're correct.

I really hope this movie pulls it off, but I still think people are expecting too much from the first movie.
They expect the origin to be properly handled, proper development of the main actors and antagonist, great action throughout, and ontop of all that, which we are getting, they complain that Starks alcoholism be addressed.

I think it is obviously being hinted at if he is hardly without a drink during the movie.
But if they crammed stuff in from Demon in a Bottle, either the movie would have to be 45 minutes longer, our it be fit into the existing 126 minutes, and then it would be flammed for rushing a storyline and confusing people.

I'm not worried about this. I'm fine with them adapting Demon in the Bottle in a sequel.

This movie will do great, we are basically guaranteed a sequel,

I tend to avoid predicting stuff like that.

No-one knows for certain what's going to happen until it happens.

They may have guaranteed a sequel but that doesn't mean it's destiny.

why not have fun this time around,

?

and once all the formalities are out of the way, we can buckle down and tackle Starks alcoholism.

I'll be looking forward to that.

 

[The Major]

Some of the battles did leave something to be desired, but I think the point was to show the humans and robots in the middle of a pitched, ongoing battle, and not neccessarily how it was going, except for Sam, Prime and Megatron.

Just because they were the primary characters, and I'm being generous calling Optimus a primary character, doesn't mean everyone else around them had to disappear off-screen when Sam was around or had to be incompetent idiots.

What's surprising is that he had such promising material with the military and the hacker girl sub-plots but didn't push them hard enough and let the comedy take over to much IMO.

In Bumblebee's first fight with the Decepticon car there should have definitely been much more collateral damage from their battle. They'd cause a lot of destruction to the property around them. They should be tearing up pavement, ripping concrete pillars apart, throwing cars at each other etc. There be very noisy in their struggle, too. Instead it was as if they suddenly stopped existing once Sam ran a few feet away.

Was the defeat of Megatron a tad anticlimactic? I guess so, after that battle. But it did fit into the theme and storyline of the movie well enough.

Is it really that big a deal if Optimus finds a way to defeat Megatron? He could have even had the military back him up or something.

But unarmed Sam on his own? No way.

There's got to be some suspension of disbelief.

You need that in any fictional story.

There are to many holes in that single scene to work.

I mean, in any real sense, Megatron would have killed Sam immediately and just taken the cube for himself. He wanted the cube, so he came to get the cube. Sam jammed it into him, and Megatron overloaded.

I understand what was occuring. It still doesn't explain why Megatron would suddenly get a suicide complex when a 90lb clumbsy kid is right in front of him.

What kind of back up plan was Prime supposed to have, exactly?

He had himself, who clearly couldn't beat Megatron, and the other Transformers, and if Prime couldn't defeat Megatron, what's to make us think they would stand a chance? Besides, they were off protecting the humans and distracting the other Decepticons so that they couldn't help Megatron against Prime.

Optimus is a military leader who has fought Decepticons for thousands of years! He should act like it.

If Bay had used The Ark the Autobots could have used it to create plot devices to use against the Decepticons in the film. So not only are the Autobots less competent but they're without their own resources.

Surely Bay could consulted some military consultant or, I dunno, research the anime and comics for plot devices/tactics he might not have gotten himself into such a quagmire.

It's clear he wanted certain events to happen in the movie but didn't bother making sure they were logically built up.

He certainly made the Autobbots far less competent and strong so that the humans were able to steal the show. I'm not totally against the idea but he made the Autobots to weak for the story. Besides having the humans being good enough to keep up with competent Autobots make the humans more formitable, not less.

The fight Optimus did have with that Decepticon on the freeway was good. If he had fought Megatron like that he'd have more credibility as a warrior.

Sacrificing yourself to prevent the villain from obtaining ultimate power is a backup plan, and a fairly noble one at that.

It is noble, but not smart.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

It looks like Iron Man may not be what some hope it is..

 

[The Guard]

Just because they were the primary characters, and I'm being generous calling Optimus a primary character, doesn't mean everyone else around them had to disappear off-screen when Sam was around or had to be incompetent idiots.

The Autobots weren't incompetent idiots. Now you're just twisting what was actually onscreen.

What's surprising is that he had such promising material with the military and the hacker girl sub-plots but didn't push them hard enough and let the comedy take over to much IMO.

What in god's name are you talking about?

In Bumblebee's first fight with the Decepticon car there should have definitely been much more collateral damage from their battle. They'd cause a lot of destruction to the property around them. They should be tearing up pavement, ripping concrete pillars apart, throwing cars at each other etc. There be very noisy in their struggle, too. Instead it was as if they suddenly stopped existing once Sam ran a few feet away.

You're just whining to whine now, aren't you? Why would they go out of their way to cause collateral damage?

Is it really that big a deal if Optimus finds a way to defeat Megatron? He could have even had the military back him up or something.

Are you capable of addressing the actual points, or are you just going to continue to ignore them in favor of "But I wanted Optimus to win!"

No, it's not a big deal for Prime to defeat Megatron. It would even make sense. But clearly they didn't want to go that route, given the THEMES OF THE MOVIE, which were not "Optimus is the only hero". Now, if you have a problem with that, fine. But the fact is, Shia didn't just defeat Megatron for the hell of it. He did so because it fit the themes of the film.

But unarmed Sam on his own? No way.

Why the hell not? You have some problem with the little guy winning?

There are to many holes in that single scene to work.

The only potential "hole" is that Sam kills Megatron. And it's not a plot hole. It's simply a moment that requires a suspension of disbelief.

I understand what was occuring. It still doesn't explain why Megatron would suddenly get a suicide complex when a 90lb clumbsy kid is right in front of him.

I must have missed the movie where Megatron took the cube from Sam and killed HIMSELF.

You're asking why Megatron let Sam kill him?

1. He couldn't know Sam had that kind of guts.
2. He couldn't see Sam
3. It happened fairly quickly
4. Suspend your disbelief, already, it's a movie where Megatron didn't just kill Sam right away and take the cube.

Optimus is a military leader who has fought Decepticons for thousands of years! He should act like it.

And that would involve...what, exactly?

If Bay had used The Ark the Autobots could have used it to create plot devices to use against the Decepticons in the film. So not only are the Autobots less competent but they're without their own resources.

So what you want is a convenient plot device that allows the Autobots to just "win because", not something that actually serves the story.

Surely Bay could consulted some military consultant or, I dunno, research the anime and comics for plot devices/tactics he might not have gotten himself into such a quagmire.

What quagmire?

Seems to me Bay just chose to have the humans be the heroes at the end, not just the Autobots. I think you're just upset that it wasn't Prime who saved the day. And that's fine. But call it what it is. It's not like Michael Bay couldn't have just had Prime win the fight. That's clearly not what they wanted.

It's clear he wanted certain events to happen in the movie but didn't bother making sure they were logically built up.

********. He built his "more than meets the eye/humans and Autobots" theme throughout the entire movie.

He certainly made the Autobbots far less competent and strong so that the humans were able to steal the show.

How were the Autobots less competent?

I'm not totally against the idea but he made the Autobots to weak for the story.

Why?

Besides having the humans being good enough to keep up with competent Autobots make the humans more formitable, not less.

They were keeping up with competent Autobots. I'm not sure what you wanted to see, other than a really one-sided battle.

The fight Optimus did have with that Decepticon on the freeway was good. If he had fought Megatron like that he'd have more credibility as a warrior.

What...the hell...are you talking about? Did you even watch the final battle? It was pretty much all out.

It is noble, but not smart.

How is it not smart? It's a way out of the situation without Megatron winning and taking over the Earth.

 

[Shivsguy616]

Get back on topic.

 

[The Guard]

If the topic is so important to you why don't YOU get back on topic with something relevant to the topic?

Oh. Because it's already been discussed and most people could care less now.

 

[StylishHokie21]

Iron Man looks decent, but so did Transformers.

 

[AragornKing1]

Iron Man looks decent, but so did Transformers.

Transformers was more than decent.

 

[S.A.A.D.]

^Transformers was pretty good for what it was. the only downside to that movie was that the Transformers could have had some more dialog thrown in when each of them would get their share of screen time in spite of the budget that was given to make the movie and the story could have been better. To end this off topic conversation,I'm so glad Roberto Orci and Alex are back to write the script with a third person.