General Motors

[Addendum]

Isn't there also another company that is stopping production for a month. I thought it was for a holiday break? (Maybe I'm thinking of Chrysler?)

Ford is as well

 

[SuBe]

Isn't there also another company that is stopping production for a month. I thought it was for a holiday break? (Maybe I'm thinking of Chrysler?)

Usually it's 2 weeks. This years it's a month.

 

[Kelly]

Ford is as well

Ford already shuts down for 2 weeks over Christmas, they are adding another week to that.

 

[EdRyder]

Its Chrysler thats toast. Not sure if any of you caught the CSPAN coverage a few weeks ago..When Bobby Corker was hammering the Chrysler rep it was clear they aren't being all that forthcoming with the truth of their situation.Corker kept reiterating that if it wasn't for GM's clout Chrysler wouldn't be there.Theres a company that owns 80% of Chrysler and they refuse to give them any money, they would rather sell it off.And all Chrysler would like to discuss is the corp that owns 20% and how they consist of peoples retirement benefits and packages and how they're unable to give them funds.
I thought Corker was going to break down and chase him out of the room with a cleaver.

 

[Marx]

Its Chrysler thats toast. Not sure if any of you caught the CSPAN coverage a few weeks ago..When Bobby Corker was hammering the Chrysler rep it was clear they aren't being all that forthcoming with the truth of their situation.Corker kept reiterating that if it wasn't for GM's clout Chrysler wouldn't be there.Theres a company that owns 80% of Chrysler and they refuse to give them any money, they would rather sell it off.And all Chrysler would like to discuss is the corp that owns 20% and how they consist of peoples retirement benefits and packages and how they're unable to give them funds.
I thought Corker was going to break down and chase him out of the room with a cleaver.

I agree. Of the three, I see Chrysler as 'Most Likely To Fail'.

 

[Kelly]

Also, just as a "little" side note.

The people that are getting this time off......are also getting 95% of their paycheck for that month.

 

[Marx]

Also, just as a "little" side note.

The people that are getting this time off......are also getting 95% of their paycheck for that month.

Hmm...

 

[SuBe]

Yes, but Chrysler is saving the cost of Production in shutting down the Factories, which I'm sure is a huge cost savings measure.

I'm in Production. I place orders, and I always have to balance out orders vs demand vs inventory. I know that if I bulk up on a slow moving Product and when I receive all of it, the factory will have less to produce. I.e. Layoffs.

 

[Paradoxium]

Bailout approved: Automakers to get $17.4B
GM and Chrysler Will Get $13.4 Billion in U.S. Loans

Looks like its only GM and Chrysler who got the bailout TARP fund. Ford seems to be winging it for now. Most of the TARP money is gone now too (edit: sorry my bad, the first half of the TARP fund)

 

[Motown Marvel]

UAW is already complaining about the terms, particularly the demand for wages to be competitive with that of foreign auto makers.

 

[Paradoxium]

UAW is already complaining about the terms, particularly the demand for wages to be competitive with that of foreign auto makers.

No money vs. lower wages. Take your pick.

 

[Marx]

I can't say that I'm very surprised by Bush overriding Congress.

 

[SuBe]

I can't say that I'm very surprised by Bush overriding Congress.

I can't say I'm surprised either, but I guess Bush just crowned himself King today. Wippee!

This sets a great precident for the future. If the Elected people deny something, just do it anyway, for their own good.

 

[Addendum]

I don't seem to recall any of the banks having to cut back the salaries of the executives or other employees so they could get a bailout

And here in Memphis, Fed Ex is cutting back on the pay of it's salaried employees starting at the top. Fred Smith is getting a 20% paycut, other members of the board 10%, and the rest 7%. They're going to save about $800 million.

 

[rdh007]

I don't seem to recall any of the banks having to cut back the salaries of the executives or other employees so they could get a bailout

And here in Memphis, Fed Ex is cutting back on the pay of it's salaried employees starting at the top. Fred Smith is getting a 20% paycut, other members of the board 10%, and the rest 7%. They're going to save about $800 million.

Hmmmmmmmmmm...you mean the people that make decisions are taking responsibility for their decisions??? We can have none of this--we must blame the worker! That FedEx will never last!

 

[dnno1]

I know this is hitting close to home for many.....

But I'm sorry...

1. Poor quality cars...
2. Over the top, golden retirement packages...
3. Over the top salaries...

At some point is going to come back and bite you in the butt.....and now it has.

I know the above three can be solved, and these 3 automakers can come back strong.......BUT, my tax dollars are not the answer....

Look at the foreign automakers in the country.....
1. Look at the quality of their cars....
2. Look at their retirement pakages....
3. Look at their salaries....

Learn......................................................

1. Look at the quality of their cars....

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/art...high_marks/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+Automotive

2. Look at their retirement pakages....

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/business/economy/10leonhardt.html?_r=1

And who said Toyota doesn't have unions.

http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/03/12/afx4761049.html

3. Look at their salaries....

http://www.autospies.com/news/Porsche-CEO-defends-100-million-salary-23802/

Furthermore they don't even list the salaries of the top executives at Toyota. The truth of the matter is that they get paid the same in stock options as the CEO's of the Big 3. The truth of the matter is that it is not the quality or the pensions or the salaries, it is the fact that people are not buying cars right now. You don't have to believe me just ask Toyota who is about to report their first loss in 70 years

 

[Kelly]

dnno1 take your union sunglasses off, and maybe you'll see things more clearly.


Also, I just said today that TOYOTA will be showing a loss.....****ING DUH....the economy is in the tank........but they aren't asking for a bailout at the moment either.

THESE CAR COMPANIES HAVE TO DO SOMETHING DNNO1.....these CEO cannot continue to make what they make, they cannot continue to pay these huge salary and retirement plans....THEY CAN'T AND CONTINUE......open your eyes, and read our posts.

NO ONE is blaming the worker. Hell, if my union said you are going to make $$$$$ I'd say hell yeah......and my retirement plan was $$$$$$$, well hell yeah I would take it. They made these plans in good times, not planning for bad. All companies have ups and downs and should be planned for. They hit the peak and now they are trying to stay at that peak of salaries and its killing the company.

EVERYONE HAS TO MAKE CONCESSIONS....NOT JUST THE WORKER, is the worker going to suffer in this.....yeah...but its not my fault, its the fault of those in charge at all levels....... But, to think that 17 billion bailout is going to do anything except get them ready to file Ch. 11 and restructure, you are kidding yourself. SO, don't use "my" money in that 17 billion for something that either will happen anyway......OR won' happen, nothing will change, no concessions will be made and they will be back in Washington for 3x that amount in a month. NO.....I'm tired of my money being used for that.....and apparently the majority of Americans feel the way I do. WE DON'T BLAME THE WORKERS......we blame a bad structure within these companies.

Also, um, no one said that the foreign car companies did not have unions......I didn't anyway.......not sure that anyone did.

 

[XpunkRocker]

dnno1 take your union sunglasses off, and maybe you'll see things more clearly.


Also, I just said today that TOYOTA will be showing a loss.....****ING DUH....the economy is in the tank........but they aren't asking for a bailout at the moment either.

THESE CAR COMPANIES HAVE TO DO SOMETHING DNNO1.....these CEO cannot continue to make what they make, they cannot continue to pay these huge salary and retirement plans....THEY CAN'T AND CONTINUE......open your eyes.

i went through that already, no luck and i gave up

 

[Kelly]

Well, when you live smack in the middle of it and it is hitting you personally......it is hard to read, hear, anything else.....

The thing is, he's repeating the same thing over and over, and no one is blaming the worker for anything.......unfortunately though, they are going to suffer and have to be a part of that restructuring.....THINGS CANNOT, continue as they are.....they just can't.

 

[Fading]

Exactly. It's like if you had a house built, but hire a bad construction company. A year after they finish you find out the foundation of the house is screwed up, they used inferior materials, they screwed up the wiring, etc. You could either pump thousands of dollars trying to fix the exterior and make it look nice. Or you can realize that no matter how much paint, how many times you fix that crumbling wall, it's not going to improve the inner skeleton.

In this case, it's just a bad buisness structure. CEO's make obscene amounts of money, money is mismanaged, they don't produce products ppl want, the unions have a chokehold on them, and the list keeps going.

Sometimes ppl need to see the edge, they need to see that if they don't slow down or change course they can go over. We can continue to pay out the ass for their mistakes and bail out bad banks, auto makers, etc with tax payer dollars. Or we can let them realize they can fail, and let them take responsibility for their actions and buisness model.

 

[Arc-Light]

I don't seem to recall any of the banks having to cut back the salaries of the executives or other employees so they could get a bailout

And here in Memphis, Fed Ex is cutting back on the pay of it's salaried employees starting at the top. Fred Smith is getting a 20% paycut, other members of the board 10%, and the rest 7%. They're going to save about $800 million.

That is madness......how are the fat cats going to keep their 3rd house in France.

 

[Marx]

That is madness......how are the fat cats going to keep their 3rd house in France.

I think they'll be ok. They still have homes in Italy, Spain, Germany, England, and Australia.

 

[dnno1]

I had a review to perpare for. Now, where was I? Oh, yeah...

That is completely wrong though.

No, you didn't read what I said.

If you are fiscally conservative and socially liberal on both extremes, then doesn't that make you centrist?

I doubt it. That party was formed about 2 years ago and I doubt that there are very many of them. I think you will find that even those people will tend to lean towards one party or the other (Republican or Democrat) which is polarized towards politically conservative or liberal.

And if you are centrist, doesn't that mean that your ideologies fall outside of the boundaries of the traditional "liberal" and "conservative" labels?

Once again your party affiliation and your voting record will tell the real tale. You are going to find that your are going to vote more times than none to one side or the other. As far as I am conserned there is no in the middle. Just like a ball sittng on a round dome, that is unlikely (it will always fall to one side).

If this is the case, then how can you claim that a voter or politician is conservative when he or she has equally supported liberal policies on certain issues?

Because of his affiliation. If he affiliates himself with the Repulicans (who are considered more conservative) and that that is what he is. If he wasn't considered that then he would either change parties or would be outsted.

Moreover, people who register with a political party usually do so on the basis of one or two key issues they support. For example, I am a Democrat on the basis that I am very liberal on social issues. I am conservative on matters of defense and left-of-center on economic issues. The latter two, however, are not as important to me as social issues such as gay rights.

I myself think that national defense is not partisan nor should it be. i think the constitution gives the goverment the obligation to provide for it and how dare any one part say that they are the party of that. That is just a mistique that the Republicans place on themselves. I wouldn't even call you a conservative for supporting national defense. Now supporting phony wars is another thing.

So, you could have a voter or politician who has joined the Democratic Party because he supports its stance on _____, but is equally conservative on issues such as ______. That makes that person more of a centrist than it makes them liberal or conservative.

I though we were originally taling about Independants. Democrats are more liberal that independant.

My jaw just unhinged itself and flopped on the floor because of this INSANE logic.

We have a multitrillion dollar national debt and a multibillion dollar deficit. Yet, you think we should pour MORE of this imaginary money, thereby expanding both the debt and the deficit, to bailout an industry WHICH MAY NOT SURVIVE as a result.

Stop being so dramatic. This goes on every day. In fact as of late the Fed's have dropped intrest rates down to .25% (and it could go down to 0). That is how our economy has been working since the last depression. Furthermore, they don't have to print money. There are other was to help out that industry. For instance they could forgive them of their tax obligations completely for 3 years with the promise that they pay it back in future years. There more alternatives than that.

Really? I'm sure you're not happy that we have spent trillions of imaginary dollars on the war in Iraq, yet you want to spent billions of imaginary dollars on saving an industry which is failing because it couldn't compete in a free-market economy.

No I'm not, and if they were to stop today (which won't happen) they would $10 billion/month more to help out the economy.

I'm not arguing that hybrids are outselling economy cars, nor am I arguing that the majority of vehicles sold in this country are foreign. I am arguing that the foreign manufacturers have offered more innovation at an affordable price, hence why sales of foreign vehicles have been rising steadily over the past three years.

Well it wasn't solely because of hybrids. I would lay a lot of blame on the trade deficit the price of oil and the economy more so than that.

There is a difference between offering LOANS to small businesses and handing out BILLION DOLLAR BAILOUTS to corporations. Moreover, the Department of Commerce does not fund businesses in this country. It issues patents and sets industrial regulations and standards which apply to ALL businesses unless otherwise noted.

There is a difference between setting a competitive advantage/ setting standards for businesses and handing out buckets of imaginary money to those same businesses. There needs to be some government regulation of business to promote competition, but the line should be drawn when businesses which fail as a result of their own incompetence are being handed billions of dollars to pay for a parachute made of lead.

I don't think the intent of the government to just hand out money in this instance and if you have been reading the news all along the congress and the senate haven't been saying that either.

But again-- this is the LUXURY market, which is a specialized market aimed at upper-middle class to wealthy individuals, not middle class families. Most Americans could care less what Mercedes-Benz offers due to its niche market.

We will still have to see if Mecedes Benz actually comes through on that claim.

My. GOD.

The point seems to have flown over your head completely.

Do some research on your own, where you will find that all of the companies I listed have more hybrid models available en masse, with better technologies, at lower prices than the ones offered by "The Big Three."

Sigh.

And if you read the information I provided you with, you would have seen that all ten of those models had average fuel economies of 34 MPG or more. GM may have more vehicles with fuel economies of 30 MPG or more, but they only have ONE vehicle which gets over 34 MPG-- and it is a downright awful vehicle which only proves that the company is half-assing its efforts when compared to auto companies such as Toyota or Honda.

There you go with the drama again. I think the consumer is more concerned with fuel efficiency not necessarily if the car is a hybrid. Note that both the hybrid and the conventional car run on gas and their efficiency/economy as a gas mileage. 30-34 mpg is the same whether it is a hybrid or a conventional car so you will be spending about the same in gasoline. That is actually common sense and doesn't need any research, just some thought.

The idea of alternative fuels and fuel efficiency will not be scrapped, because Americans are buying hybrids and compacts even with the price of gas dwindling. That's what $4 a gallon gas and an economic recession does to buyers-- it makes them realize that they need to cut back on expenses, and buying high-quality, fuel-efficient vehicles is the best way to do this.

If the price of gas stays under $2.50 I have a feeling that all this alternative fuels thing will be come pipe dream. The same thing happened some 30 years ago and, if we don't watch out, it will happen again.

I doubt Bruce Wayne needed $25 billion dollars from the federal government to pick himself up, though.

I doubt even he would be immune to it in the real world nor would the government overlook his company if it going under could potentially hurt the econmy.

 

[dnno1]

dnno1 take your union sunglasses off, and maybe you'll see things more clearly.


Also, I just said today that TOYOTA will be showing a loss.....****ING DUH....the economy is in the tank........but they aren't asking for a bailout at the moment either.

THESE CAR COMPANIES HAVE TO DO SOMETHING DNNO1.....these CEO cannot continue to make what they make, they cannot continue to pay these huge salary and retirement plans....THEY CAN'T AND CONTINUE......open your eyes, and read our posts.

NO ONE is blaming the worker. Hell, if my union said you are going to make $$$$$ I'd say hell yeah......and my retirement plan was $$$$$$$, well hell yeah I would take it. They made these plans in good times, not planning for bad. All companies have ups and downs and should be planned for. They hit the peak and now they are trying to stay at that peak of salaries and its killing the company.

EVERYONE HAS TO MAKE CONCESSIONS....NOT JUST THE WORKER, is the worker going to suffer in this.....yeah...but its not my fault, its the fault of those in charge at all levels....... But, to think that 17 billion bailout is going to do anything except get them ready to file Ch. 11 and restructure, you are kidding yourself. SO, don't use "my" money in that 17 billion for something that either will happen anyway......OR won' happen, nothing will change, no concessions will be made and they will be back in Washington for 3x that amount in a month. NO.....I'm tired of my money being used for that.....and apparently the majority of Americans feel the way I do. WE DON'T BLAME THE WORKERS......we blame a bad structure within these companies.

Also, um, no one said that the foreign car companies did not have unions......I didn't anyway.......not sure that anyone did.

I could have swore I was responding to your latest post that basically summed up your opinion in three statemets, which I debunked. Your saying that Toyota is showing a loss is only contradicting what you just said. How could it be quality and wages if the entire industry is hurting? Yes, these companies have to do something and, if you were listening to the congressional hearings, you would have seen that they do have plans do just that -- and the unions have been making consession and will still be making them in the future. I don't know why you complaining since I think everbody got the message about a month ago.

 

[XpunkRocker]

because toyota is losing less than the detroit big three... and toyota isnt looking for money from their government.

non american companies are obviously doing better than american companies....