General Motors

[Malice]

The Govt getting involved is bad....any way you look at it.

 

[Nitehawk013]

Bailout or no bailout, as long as these American car producers continue to have to pay pensions and healthcare to people who no longer work for them, as well as ever higher wages and benefits for current workers because of the UAW, they will struggle.

For gods sake people, I heard it regularly as far back as 6 years ago that these car companies were facing a future collapse because of the demands of the unions. They were demanding so much that the companies would not be unable to provide a product at an affordable price and still meet the union demands.

Here we are in almost 2009 and there are the car companies on the brink of collapse. Are the unions stepping up letting go of some of their demands to help the companies that have provided them a job for years? Nope. Because unions are blood sucking vampires with no regard for the companies that provide them a workplace.

 

[Addendum]

Unions may have had a part, but the primary factor is that GM, Ford and Chrysler kept relying on vehicles that a majority of consumers weren't buying.

 

[Nitehawk013]

I would agree that product is a big problem. I would simply say I feel the primary factor if the union grip, then horrible product.

I keep waiting for Chevy to put the new Camaro on the market and they keep screwing around. I'm tired of waiting! If that thing is priced reasonably it should be as huge a hit as the revamped Mustang was for Ford a few years ago.

 

[dnno1]

I wish people would stop blaming the unions. The real problem is that people don't make enough money to buy cars.

 

[BlackLantern]

The unions ARE the problem....these companies are spending so much money on union demands for salary that it's taking money away from other departments (manufacturing, supply, research and development)....There is a reason most companies today make you aware that they are not union supporters....and there is even legislation on the books to combat American workers that are being forced to join unions if they want certain jobs

 

[Malice]

I wish people would stop blaming the unions. The real problem is that people don't make enough money to buy cars.

Um....no...

The problem is the Big three not planning properly....
This comes in multiple parts...preparing for a BAD time.....like now.

Any good company, plans for bot the good times and the bad times.
The American Car companies failed to properly plan for what has occurred.

The Unions are only part of the problem...I dont BLAME the unions, but they are a big part of the financial problem the car manufacturers are feeling, but I blame the care companies entirely for simply failing to plan properly.

 

[SuBe]

I wish people would stop blaming the unions. The real problem is that people don't make enough money to buy cars.

How about you reverse your equations. It costs too much money to produce the car in the first place to purchase them, when you can purchase other cars of the same value for less because the Cost of Labor isn't so freaking high?

 

[BlackLantern]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122832097499675993.html

This is interesting

 

[Motown Marvel]

people should quit trying to peg the blame on a single thing like the unions. its many things that as a whole resulted in the situation. product, unions, economy, etc...all these things combined caused this, and things in all of these areas need to be remedied to fix the situation.

 

[Kelly]

people should quit trying to peg the blame on a single thing like the unions. its many things that as a whole resulted in the situation. product, unions, economy, etc...all these things combined caused this, and things in all of these areas need to be remedied to fix the situation.

Who here has done that....

Most have said, CEO's, low quality cars/too high of price, and unions....I think they are all connected and all have to be fixed.

After today's news conference, it looks like they are working on the first 2 but are 2 chicken to face the unions....ie

CEO's will pay themselves a $1, if they get the bailout....
Working on new electric cars etc, and have many of them ready by 2010...
Until they bring something on holding down the pension/insurance plans with the unions.....I wouldn't give them the money....

All three things need to be fixed...

 

[Motown Marvel]

union leaders from across the nation met in detroit today to discuss concessions to help the big three get through this. so, it looks like the unions are pitching in on their end to help out the situation.

by the way, is it just me, or does it seem like the big three are being given a much harder time and taking far more criticism over 25 billion dollars than the banking people were getting over 700 billion?

 

[Kelly]

union leaders from across the nation met in detroit today to discuss concessions to help the big three get through this. so, it looks like the unions are pitching in on their end to help out the situation.

by the way, is it just me, or does it seem like the big three are being given a much harder time and taking far more criticism over 25 billion dollars than the banking people were getting over 700 billion?

When you come with your hat in hand, you might want to drive, not fly your private jet.

 

[BlackLantern]

When you come with your hat in hand, you might want to drive, not fly your private jet.

...or come up with a coherent answer when the United States Senate asks you why you are asking for money when you have flown in on said private jet

 

[Kelly]

...or come up with a coherent answer when the United States Senate asks you why you are asking for money when you have flown in on said private jet

Yeah, that too.....

 

[Motown Marvel]

When you come with your hat in hand, you might want to drive, not fly your private jet.

...or come up with a coherent answer when the United States Senate asks you why you are asking for money when you have flown in on said private jet

i totally 110% agree. all the criticisms and harshness the big 3 have endured are completely warranted. im just saying, i didnt really see the same applied to the banking industries. i mean, big 3 ceo's are taking dollar salaries, and banking ceo's are using bailout money for bonuses. and i dont remember anyone asking the banking ceo's how they got to washington....i some how doubt they drove. its just kinda weird to me that they're not being held to the same standards.

 

[deathfromabove]

i totally 110% agree. all the criticisms and harshness the big 3 have endured are completely warranted. im just saying, i didnt really see the same applied to the banking industries. i mean, big 3 ceo's are taking dollar salaries, and banking ceo's are using bailout money for bonuses. and i dont remember anyone asking the banking ceo's how they got to washington....i some how doubt they drove. its just kinda weird to me that they're not being held to the same standards.

yeah i agree its kinda baloney.

 

[BlackLantern]

This whole bailout mess is ******ed

 

[chaseter]

Who here has done that....

Most have said, CEO's, low quality cars/too high of price, and unions....I think they are all connected and all have to be fixed.

After today's news conference, it looks like they are working on the first 2 but are 2 chicken to face the unions....ie

CEO's will pay themselves a $1, if they get the bailout....
Working on new electric cars etc, and have many of them ready by 2010...
Until they bring something on holding down the pension/insurance plans with the unions.....I wouldn't give them the money....

All three things need to be fixed...

And add to that the high price of oil that somehow was in correlation with all of this as well These car companies I can guarantee were in leagues with oil companies and after the economy dropped out, they are beginning to reap what they sow Making high priced gas guzzling vehicles out of cheap materials has finally come back to bite them in the butt. A bailout will not solve the problem because it isn't just about fixing their debt.

 

[Nitehawk013]

The bailout thing is a mess on every front. And, as many predeicted, it is expending. A school district near Cleveland is now pushing for a piece of the Fed bailout pie because they are in financial turmoil. The Superintendant said that if all these banks and car companies can get bailed out because they are out of money, why can't his school system?

The bailout plan should have never happened. Someone, Repubs or Democrats, should have killed it. It may have hurt temporarily, but they would be getting praised now for not allowing this nightmare.

 

[dnno1]

The unions ARE the problem....these companies are spending so much money on union demands for salary that it's taking money away from other departments (manufacturing, supply, research and development)....There is a reason most companies today make you aware that they are not union supporters....and there is even legislation on the books to combat American workers that are being forced to join unions if they want certain jobs

You are believing the negative hype. The truth of the matter is that the average auto worker's salary is less than $44K/year (this info is coming from the U.S. Bureau of Labor and Statistics). Just to put that in context, the weighted average poverty threshold for a family of four in 2007 was $21,203 as defined by the U.S. Office of Management and Budget. Then median income in the United States is a little over $43K. If you made that much money and wanted to send your kid to Harvard, they would waive the tuition fees since your household income would be less than $60K. And you want to say that unions are the problem? That is hardly the case.

 

[dnno1]

How about you reverse your equations. It costs too much money to produce the car in the first place to purchase them, when you can purchase other cars of the same value for less because the Cost of Labor isn't so freaking high?

If more people made enough money to afford one then there would be more cars on the road. That's the truth of the matter pure and simple. Over the last 30 years, salaries went up by 30%. That's a 1% increase annually and hardly enough to match inflation. That's your real problem. The wealthy have gotten wealthier while the poor and middle class have basically gotten shafted.

 

[dnno1]

Um....no...

The problem is the Big three not planning properly....
This comes in multiple parts...preparing for a BAD time.....like now.

Any good company, plans for bot the good times and the bad times.
The American Car companies failed to properly plan for what has occurred.

The Unions are only part of the problem...I dont BLAME the unions, but they are a big part of the financial problem the car manufacturers are feeling, but I blame the care companies entirely for simply failing to plan properly.

I don't think even you could have predicted that the price of crude oil would hit $140/barrel some time after 2004 when the trend 20 years before that had been between $40 and $60, and a family of four doesn't want to drive in a compact car. Unions are not even part of the problem, they are a casualty, and you ARE trying to blame them by saying they are part of the problem. If you want to blame somebody you should blame this current administration for failing to predict that this would happen and lying to the American public, telling them that the economy was strong.

 

[SuBe]

If more people made enough money to afford one then there would be more cars on the road. That's the truth of the matter pure and simple. Over the last 30 years, salaries went up by 30%. That's a 1% increase annually and hardly enough to match inflation. That's your real problem. The wealthy have gotten wealthier while the poor and middle class have basically gotten shafted.

Do you have a study that shows that the "Rich" are getting Richer? I've read a study recently that shows that there are more people in the Middle-class MOVING to the "Rich". Middle Class is down 11%, and the Rich has grown, while the "Poor" numbers are stagnant.

 

[dnno1]

Do you have a study that shows that the "Rich" are getting Richer? I've read a study recently that shows that there are more people in the Middle-class MOVING to the "Rich". Middle Class is down 11%, and the Rich has grown, while the "Poor" numbers are stagnant.

I could get that data, but I don't see how that is relevant to the argument. I presented data related to the non salaried workers in the automobile industry, which more than likely would include union workers. They do not seem to fall in the rich-class.