General Motors

[BlackLantern]

Judging someones belief system based solely on their vote is pretty ignorant

 

[Fading]

I know it's mainly the US car manufacturers that are having trouble, but is Toyota too? Reason I ask is my Mom's employers makes parts for Toyota, and her plants getting 3 days off coming up (not the good with pay kind), and then she heard the local Toyota is going to be taking an entire week off shortly after. That def doesn't sound good, and it has me confused as I thought the Japanese car makers were doing alright.

 

[XpunkRocker]

The fact of the matter is according to a Congressional Research Service report, GM and Ford was able to sell over 1 million cars in China over the last two years (see page 9). You can't say that they don't let them sell cars because of the standards because they are selling cars there. In fact, GM wants to invest $5 billion in China over the next five years becasue they want to expand their production facilities there. Next time try and speak the truth with more up to date info.

Well, not all cars. about 20% of our cars meet their current standards. and about 15% of out trucks meet their standards

They could but that is not going to help the Big 3 right now. What they need is cash to keep their businesses going.

So tell me.... a lot of businesses are going under right now. why save these guys and not save other businesses?

No your voting record will tell where you stand.

Oh really? well lets see if you can guess what i am by my record. for this past election, i voted mccain for pres, a republican for state senator, a democrat for county commisioner, an republican for mayor, an independent for the board of elections, a democrat for sherrif, and i campaigned for a democratic senator in virigina, and i campaigned/worked for a democratic county commisioner (which i was a big part of btw). so..... what am i? i have more than a voting record. i worked for a lot of these people

and again, being an independent MEANS that you are not part of the democat or the republican party, or you have no party affiliation whatsoever. even look it up. if you are politically independent, you are not affiliated with a party. it isn't rocket science. it is not a belief. it is like working for a company or working for yourself.

conservative is not a political party. it is a political ideology, a belief. There are conservative democrats, there are conservative republicans, and there are conservative independents. if you don't believe me, i can give you a list.

Judging someones belief system based solely on their vote is pretty ignorant

Especially if a person's voting record actually shows they are an independent thinker. like when he said kel is a conservative that is too afraid to admit it and hides behind "independent." seriously. what if her votes were half and half what would he say? you are conservative because you won't admit what you are, even when you vote?

I know it's mainly the US car manufacturers that are having trouble, but is Toyota too? Reason I ask is my Mom's employers makes parts for Toyota, and her plants getting 3 days off coming up (not the good with pay kind), and then she heard the local Toyota is going to be taking an entire week off shortly after. That def doesn't sound good, and it has me confused as I thought the Japanese car makers were doing alright.

the whole economy is struggling, so it is effecting everyone. i am not too good with economics when you include factors like foriegn money, but there is a lot of issues with that. we have a lot of money invested with them, and they do with us. so when the value of our dollar goes down, the money we loaned them is worth less. and visa versa. but i don't understand too much more than that. it gets complicated. all car sales are down and the money is worth less, so companies are making less. but ford and GM were falling behind before the recession happened.

 

[Visionary]

but you said the "american people deserve it." why do the american people deserve to lose 250,000 jobs? i can see how the company deserves to go away, but the "american people?" why does the american people deserve to lose one of its backbone economic forces?

the auto industry isn't as corrupt as most big companies. their main problem is that they cannot compete, and the economy is bad. if you cant compete in a bad economy, you lose. it is that simple. it is basic darwinism. no coruption

The American people are greedy bastards, that's why we deserve it. I couldn't be happier about our crushed economy. We've become too dependent on the likes of the corrupt within our own country. We act as if we can't live without a rotten establishment like General Motors. A little suffering from our rich ass nation is needed, it's time for us to see what it's like NOT TO HAVE.

 

[XpunkRocker]

actually, a poll taken by cnn says the majority of americans don't want to bail out the auto industry. i don't think americans are greedy. materialistic, yes. but not greedy. most people i know are willing to make sacrifices for one another. but now and then there is a bad apple

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/economy/automakers_poll/?postversion=2008120313

also, the recession is affecting everyone world wide, just not us.

 

[dnno1]

Judging someones belief system based solely on their vote is pretty ignorant

Isn't that what we do with our polititians and then call them baby killers when they for for legislation the we think is pro abotion and flip-flopers when they vote one way one time and then another at another time. Get real. Who is being ignorant again?

 

[XpunkRocker]

Isn't that what we do with our polititians and then call them baby killers when they for for legislation the we think is pro abotion and flip-flopers when they vote one way one time and then another at another time. Get real. Who is being ignorant again?

voting for a canidate and voting for a law is two different things. voting for a canidate is indirect democracy and voting for a law is direct democracy. it takes too different approaches.



you are being ignorant. People's politcal views are based on what they believe in, not the canidate they vote for. I believe in gun control, but i supported someone who supports gun control because i agreed with his other issues. most voters dont agree 100% with the canidates unless they are idiots.



so, buy your analysis? am i a democrat or a republican? kinda hard to tell by my voting record. what if someone votes half democrat and half republican? what are they?

 

[dnno1]

Well, not all cars. about 20% of our cars meet their current standards. and about 15% of out trucks meet their standards

You said that "a lot of foriegn markets don't let our cars get imported because our cars don't meet the minimal standard" and that "we can't even sell our cars in China, because they are not good enough." This is clearly not true since we do.

So tell me.... a lot of businesses are going under right now. why save these guys and not save other businesses?

[YT]_7SOVmkSCkw[/YT]

As Barney Frank says at 2:34 "The justification has to be the impact on the broader economy. We have no right trying to help out an industry for that industry's sake". He also goes on to say at 3:24 that "We aid an industry only when it is necessary to avoid much greater harm to the economy as a whole". In the case of the retail sales industry, there are plenty of businesses in the marketplace and if one folds, there will be plenty of others to replace them. In the case of the automobile industry this is one of our last biggest manufacturing industries in this country with supply chains that impact several million people, several states, and thousands of communities. The impact of letting it go under would be devistating to this nation and it's economy, if not the rest of the world, and that is why there should be some consideration given towards helping them out. I agree with video blogger, Zennie Abraham with his opinion on this issue.

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[XpunkRocker]

how is helping out the industry going to help the economy as a whole? they are going to be losing more jobs whether they are successful or not. the government would be better off helping companies that MAKE jobs. Not lose them or send them overseas. all this money the companies are getting are going overseas. jobs are being lost. how is that good for the economy? it isn't.

btw, i don't know if you know this, you are taking a conervative standpoint on this issue.

 

[dnno1]

Watch the last video clip before asking that question.

 

[dnno1]

btw, i don't know if you know this, you are taking a conervative standpoint on this issue.

I don't know if you realize this, but this is a very very serious issue. Even Ben Stein understands this and is not talking about letting the banks nor tht automobile industry fail. The security of this country, be it military or economic, should have no partisanship. I am on board with that. Are you?

 

[Visionary]

actually, a poll taken by cnn says the majority of americans don't want to bail out the auto industry. i don't think americans are greedy. materialistic, yes. but not greedy. most people i know are willing to make sacrifices for one another. but now and then there is a bad apple

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/economy/automakers_poll/?postversion=2008120313

also, the recession is affecting everyone world wide, just not us.

You people and your damn polls, and by CNN of all places.

And yes, most Americans are greedy bastards, materialistic indeed, but that's just a small part of America's true gluttony, it's "GREED" that we are knee-deep in. And now, that greed has come home to bite us on our asses, and I couldn't be more happy, it's time to learn our lesson. Now we're all crying and looking for answers, hopefully, those answer will come when we've lost everything. America needs tough love...that will soon knock some common-sense into its people.

 

[XpunkRocker]

Watch the last video clip before asking that question.

he says we should do it to "save the jobs." but those jobs are being lost anyway. you said it yourself, they want to build plants in china. when they do that, they will close the ones in the US. they have been doing that since like 2002. they have lost like 200,000 jobs in the past 6 years sending them overseas. so by bailing out these companies, you are not saving jobs. so that argument has no merit

You people and your damn polls, and by CNN of all places?



And yes, most Americans are greedy bastards, materialistic indeed, but that's just a small part of America's true gluttony, it's "GREED" that we are knee-deep in. And now, that greed has come home to bite us on our asses, and I could be more happy, it's time to learn our lesson. Now we're all crying and looking for answers, hopefully, those answer will come when we've lost everything. America needs tough love...that will soon knock some sense into its people.

you must hang out with a sick group of people. me and my friends are not selfish and are very giving and do our best to make the world a better place. sounds like you only know of the "sick" crowd.

I don't know if you realize this, but this is a very very serious issue. Even Ben Stein understands this and is not talking about letting the banks nor tht automobile industry fail. The security of this country, be it military or economic, should have no partisanship. I am on board with that. Are you?

I am not saying anything about partisonship. I am saying it is a conservative standpoint.

and omg... ben stein has an opinion? stop the presses!

it is a serious issue, but i am against it as well as most americans are. i am for keeping and making jobs in america. you want to get rid of them. good for you.

 

[dnno1]

I know it's mainly the US car manufacturers that are having trouble, but is Toyota too? Reason I ask is my Mom's employers makes parts for Toyota, and her plants getting 3 days off coming up (not the good with pay kind), and then she heard the local Toyota is going to be taking an entire week off shortly after. That def doesn't sound good, and it has me confused as I thought the Japanese car makers were doing alright.

Everybody is hurting. This past quarter, Toyota sold 23% fewer cars than they did the same period last year. In the Los Angeles area, they are warehousing both Toyota's and Mecedes Benz vehicles at the harbor be cause nobody is buying cars. This is the problem and it has nothing to do with the Big 3 making stuff that people don't want to buy. People can't get a loan to buy one.

 

[dnno1]

he says we should do it to "save the jobs." but those jobs are being lost anyway. you said it yourself, they want to build plants in china. when they do that, they will close the ones in the US. they have been doing that since like 2002. they have lost like 200,000 jobs in the past 6 years sending them overseas. so by bailing out these companies, you are not saving jobs. so that argument has no merit

Look, the forcast is that by 2020 there will be 140 million cars in China. It is the next growing market and it would be foolish not to compete there. If you watch the video (and I don't think you have watched all of it yet), they would have heard that the impact of the loss of the auto industry could be the loss of millions of jobs (more than 7 million), billions of dollars lost in revenue to the Government, and the tax payers would foot the bill for that in unemployement payments. I think it would be smarter to help these companies out with a $25 billion bridge loan (that we would get back in about 3 to 4 years) and save ourselves from the further massive loss in jobs and a depression, than to see this country crash and burn.

you must hang out with a sick group of people. me and my friends are not selfish and are very giving and do our best to make the world a better place. sounds like you only know of the "sick" crowd.

If that were the case, then you would be in favor of bailing out the auto industry to save from millions of people loosing their jobs. Once again, I doubt you are being truthful here. Oh, and I don't hang around sick people since I can afford to being a family man and, besides, I have good healt care.

 

[Visionary]

you must hang out with a sick group of people. me and my friends are not selfish and are very giving and do our best to make the world a better place. sounds like you only know of the "sick" crowd.

Oh goody, you and your friends.

I said MOST Americans, not all. If the majority wasn't greedy and corrupt, we wouldn't be in this mess. Now it's time for them to suffer for what they've become... a rot.

 

[XpunkRocker]

Look, the forcast is that by 2020 there will be 140 million cars in China. It is the next growing market and it would be foolish not to compete there. If you watch the video (and I don't think you have watched all of it yet), they would have heard that the impact of the loss of the auto industry could be the loss of millions of jobs (more than 7 million), billions of dollars lost in revenue to the Government, and the tax payers would foot the bill for that in unemployement payments. I think it would be smarter to help these companies out with a $25 billion bridge loan (that we would get back in about 3 to 4 years) and save ourselves from the further massive loss in jobs and a depression, than to see this country crash and burn. ]

i am bouncing audio to a disk, so i am not going to watch the rest of the video. especially some blogger who i have no idea what he is qualified for. where are these 7 million jobs??? and how are these jobs going to be saved by sending our money and jobs overseas?

Oh goody, you and your friends.



I said MOST Americans, not all. If the majority wasn't greedy and corrupt, we wouldn't be in this mess. Now it's time for them to suffer for what they've become... a rot.

it is not a matter of greed. it is a matter of ignorance. people don't know how to manage money, so they mess it up. no one was selfish and was out to hurt people. most americans are good people. they just cant manage a checkbook

 

[dnno1]

i am bouncing audio to a disk, so i am not going to watch the rest of the video. especially some blogger who i have no idea what he is qualified for. where are these 7 million jobs??? and how are these jobs going to be saved by sending our money and jobs overseas?

There will only be assembly plants in China. All of the parts will be made by the current suppliers. They will keep their jobs, and besides I don't think the current plants would be able to handle the increase in demand once the North American consumers start buying cars again. The 7 million jobs will be from all of the suppliers, dealerships, and ancillary companies related to the auto industry. In addition you will lose the local business that were supporting these companies with tools, food, clothing, et. al. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire metropolitan area of Detroit, Michigan, which has over 4 million people, would become a gost town since the automobile industry is the heart of their economy.

 

[Paradoxium]

actually, a poll taken by cnn says the majority of americans don't want to bail out the auto industry. i don't think americans are greedy. materialistic, yes. but not greedy. most people i know are willing to make sacrifices for one another. but now and then there is a bad apple

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/economy/automakers_poll/?postversion=2008120313

also, the recession is affecting everyone world wide, just not us.

Besides that, Cerberus Capital which owns 80% of Chrysler, also one of the richest hedge funds in the world generating 100 billion in annual revenues.... doesn't want to bailout Chrysler. Pretty comical if you ask me

 

[XpunkRocker]

There will only be assembly plants in China. All of the parts will be made by the current suppliers. They will keep their jobs, and besides I don't think the current plants would be able to handle the increase in demand once the North American consumers start buying cars again. The 7 million jobs will be from all of the suppliers, dealerships, and ancillary companies related to the auto industry. In addition you will lose the local business that were supporting these companies with tools, food, clothing, et. al. I wouldn't be surprised if the entire metropolitan area of Detroit, Michigan, which has over 4 million people, would become a gost town since the automobile industry is the heart of their economy.

actually, the parts will be made in china/oversees. The assembly of most american cars already takes place in mexico and canada. they arent going anywhere. the only plants in america are the ones that make the parts. and those are the ones that are going to be sent away. as for the others, there will always be other cars to support there work. it doesn't matter if they are american or not

Besides that, Cerberus Capital which owns 80% of Chrysler, also one of the richest hedge funds in the world generating 100 billion in annual revenues.... doesn't want to bailout Chrysler. Pretty comical if you ask me

i really had a feeling over the summer they were just going to sell it. i think they are at a point where they just don't care, which is ironic, but i kinda want to blame them. but chrysler is the least of the worries

 

[LastSunrise1981]

All of this fear going on and people pointing fingers. Personally I'm not sure where I stand on the General Motors Bailout. I have a feeling that the government is going to bail them out though.

In any event, when do people escape from the depressiong world of the news? And how come Visionary isn't punished for flaming the thread and causing even more disruption with his fear talk?

 

[Kelly]

What the hell is "fear" talk?

Did someone get their feelings hurt because they got an infraction? Good grief.....it's just a warning.


ALSO, people.............YOU CANNOT SEE THE INFRACTIONS GIVEN.......only the mods can, so griping about who got what or who didn't is a waste of time on a thread.........an infraction could have been given, and its none of our business if it was.....

Now, back to the topic..................I don't believe a bailout will happen..........I think that the Executive office will use some of the money from the eco-initiative money to help out the automakers, it won't be enough and they will file Chapter 11, reform after combining either 2 or all 3 and life will go on.

 

[BlackLantern]

I think one of the big three needs to fail to jolt the other two into being more pro active and conducting better practices....I also agree with the fact that once these companies get up and running, they will start building plants outside the US to maximize profit.....people need to realize that the age of manufacturing in the US is basically over...

 

[dnno1]

actually, the parts will be made in china/oversees. The assembly of most american cars already takes place in mexico and canada. they arent going anywhere. the only plants in america are the ones that make the parts. and those are the ones that are going to be sent away. as for the others, there will always be other cars to support there work. it doesn't matter if they are american or not

There are 87 GM plants across the United States and only one in China, and they make Isuzu's (and that's just GM). Between Canada and Mexico, there are a total of 10 GM plants, 14 Ford plants and 6 Chrysler Plants in Canada and Mexico. I find it hard to believe that the 7.8 million cars sold in North America by the Big 3 are coming solely from Mexico and Canada. That is a load of hooey. You can not ensure the quality of the finished parts made in a foriegn country by just building a plant there. It would take years to build and certify the plants. Companies like GM and Ford have a name behind them and would want to ensure that quality is there behind their products before they sold them to the public. That is why it would be doubtful that they would fabricate and assemble (all of) the parts in China. Now final assembly I could belive since you would be putting together precision parts.

 

[Paradoxium]

i really had a feeling over the summer they were just going to sell it. i think they are at a point where they just don't care, which is ironic, but i kinda want to blame them. but chrysler is the least of the worries

Oh they care.

Cerberus Capital not only own 80 percent of Chrysler but they own 51% in GMAC. They were going to merge GM and Chrysler into one before they realize they make some money from a bailout first. During the merger talks in October and November they were going to fold GM's manufacturing side and use Chrysler for its manufacturing base. GM would deal with the financial and office work. And yes, GMAC is also in line to get a piece of the bailout action since it does qualify as a bank.

Last year, when Cerberus bought Chrysler, one thing that was understood by the parties of the buyout was that Chrysler would head towards Chapter 11 to restructure itself and chuck away the UAW contracts. I think this goal still stands.