The Force Awakens George Lucas Appreciation Thread

[Closerframe]

Glad to hear Disney threw out all of Lucas' story ideas for this new trilogy. The man deserves the credit for creating one of the most vast fictional universes, but the guy lost his touch before the trilogies were even released.

 

[BatLobster]

The ironic thing is that even though George is being overdramatic about it, they clearly did not throw away ALL his ideas.

Director J.J. Abrams says he hopes The Force Awakens honors what Lucas originated decades ago, and adds that he had nothing to do with the decision not to move forward with Lucas’s story treatments. “Before I showed up, it was already something that Disney had decided they wanted to go a different way with,” Abrams said in an interview with EW (conducted before the CBS interview). “But the spirit of what he wrote, both in those pages and prior, is everything that this movie is built upon.”

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/11/20/george-lucas-star-wars-force-awakens-breakup

 

[DarthSkywalker]

JJ isn't going to diss Lucas. JJ is a classy guy, unlike Lucas.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Hahaha "spirit". Code word for absolutely nothing.

 

[BatLobster]

Hahaha "spirit". Code word for absolutely nothing.

I don't think that's true though. In fact it's already been confirmed by Disney that the history of the time period between ROTJ and TFA is based on notes from Lucas and Arndt. Meanwhile Arndt still has a writing credit on the film. Either way, this means the status of the galaxy at the start of the film (which is tied inextricably to where things are going) is part of the treatments right off the bat.

Given the tight turnaround time they had to rewrite, it would almost be impossible for them to have nixed EVERY single idea and started from scratch. I think what's most likely is that JJ and Kasdan did more of a re-arranging of the pieces that were on the board, rather than starting an entirely different game with entirely different pieces. The normal development process.

We'll hopefully find out the full story in the Making Of book.

JJ isn't going to diss Lucas. JJ is a classy guy, unlike Lucas.

Well, I'm hoping he's being honest here in addition to being classy. If he's saying hollow things just for the sake of being diplomatic, I can't really respect that. If there was absolutely nothing about the original treatments that he felt the movie stayed true to, I would think he could've made a statement like like "We will always be indebted to George for creating this wonderful universe, but as the new caretakers of this mythology we had strong feelings about the direction it needed to go in, which were admittedly much different than George's."

Still a classy spin on it, but it would've also been honest. That's not what JJ said though, he's implying that some essential aspects of the ideas are still in there, in addition to dodging responsibility for changing them in the first place. And I think there's every reason to believe that's the truth, despite whatever George says, who's clearly not in the loop anyway by his own admission.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

They took the vast majority of their inspiration from the early stuff, which is mentioned there. He clearly isn't lying. And I prefer white lies that keep the peace then people acting like jilted teenagers.

 

[Octoberist]

I like Lucas' jowls.

 

[BatLobster]

They took the vast majority of their inspiration from the early stuff, which is mentioned there. He clearly isn't lying. And I prefer white lies that keep the peace then people acting like jilted teenagers.

The thing is, there's a lot we still don't know about those original treatments. It's entirely possible that things like the Knights of Ren and what happened with Luke and the Academy were Lucas/Ardnt ideas. Same goes for character names, planet names, etc. And if so, those are important contributions to the mythology and it would be nice to know who came up with what. And I think we will know eventually. If it turns out that all of those ideas were JJ/Kasdan ideas, then great! But I think the fans do have a right to know, at some point.

So if it seems like I'm just defending George here, it's not that. I'm actually embarrassed for him because I think he's saying misguided things that just make him seem out of touch. The only way I could see him having a point here is if [BLACKOUT]Rey actually turns out to be "Rey Random", like MSW has actually reported. Then some of his comments would start to make some sense. But the way they have been treating Rey in all the promotional material makes it feel like there's no way she's not a Skywalker. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[Octoberist]

And I like his plaid shirts.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The thing is, there's a lot we still don't know about those original treatments. It's entirely possible that things like the Knights of Ren and what happened with Luke and the Academy were Lucas/Ardnt ideas. Same goes for character names, planet names, etc. And if so, those are important contributions to the mythology and it would be nice to know who came up with what. And I think we will know eventually. If it turns out that all of those ideas were JJ/Kasdan ideas, then great! But I think the fans do have a right to know.

So if it seems like I'm just defending George here, it's not that. I'm actually embarrassed for him because I think he's saying misguided things that just make him seem out of touch. The only way I could see him having a point here is if [BLACKOUT]Rey actually turns out to be "Rey Random", like MSW has actually reported. Then some of his comments would start to make some sense. But the way they have been treating Rey in all the promotional material makes it feel like there's no way she's not a Skywalker. [/BLACKOUT]

Spoiler

MSW has not reported that Rey Random is official. They have said they have seen no indications of her being confirmed as a Skywalker in TFA. Something easy to hide or they are waiting for VIII to reveal it.

Fans have a right to know what? L Considering the leaked info from the Ardnt script, it seems they changed, well everything. People who were up for parts weren't even called back, the young set of characters changed so much. I think a lot of the things we are seeing aren't from the treatment because they clearly trace back to the concept work for Star Wars.

 

[BatLobster]

Just to be clear, I don't mean in it in a "they're hiding teh truth from us!!" sort of way, I just mean it in the sense that this franchise has a lot of documentation out there about the nitty gritty behind the scenes stuff from the prior films, and given that there are a lot of fans interested in the creative process behind these movies, it's fair to expect that we'll learn more about how the story evolved, or changed entirely when the Making Of TFA book comes out. I think it would just be interesting for all of us to know in detail.

Lucas also said in the original Disney sale announcement that his treatments had a lot of holes that still needed to be filled. So I think there was always going to be room for a lot more imagination to flesh out the stories. Granted, I wasn't aware that there were any significant leaks from the Ardnt script as I wasn't following spoilers that far back. All I know is what KK said about the ages of the leads, people not getting called back like you said. I also recall rumors about the OT cast having their roles beefed up (I'm thinking this would mostly apply to Han, if true).

As far as designs go, that tells us about the aesthetic they are going for with the movie but it doesn't necessarily reveal how similar or different the general story beats are. I have no doubt that the changes made were significant and stark in some areas. If they weren't, it wouldn't have become the publicized thing it has. But the creative process is a delicate and intricate thing, and my gut tells me that it's not as black and white as it's being treated in the press.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Just to be clear, I don't mean in it in a "they're hiding teh truth from us!!" sort of way, I just mean it in the sense that this franchise has a lot of documentation out there about the nitty gritty behind the scenes stuff from the prior films, and given that there are a lot of fans interested in the creative process behind these movies, it's fair to expect that we'll learn more about how the story evolved, or changed entirely when the Making Of TFA book comes out. I think it would just be interesting for all of us to know in detail.

Lucas also said in the original Disney sale announcement that his treatments had a lot of holes that still needed to be filled. So I think there was always going to be room for a lot more imagination to flesh out the stories. Granted, I wasn't aware that there were any significant leaks from the Ardnt script as I wasn't following spoilers that far back. All I know is what KK said about the ages of the leads, people not getting called back like you said. I also recall rumors about the OT cast having their roles beefed up (I'm thinking this would mostly apply to Han, if true).

As far as designs go, that tells us about the aesthetic they are going for with the movie but it doesn't necessarily reveal how similar or different the general story beats are. I have no doubt that the changes made were significant and stark in some areas. If they weren't, it wouldn't have become the publicized thing it has. But the creative process is a delicate and intricate thing, and my gut tells me that it's not as black and white as it's being treated in the press.

Not just the designs, but the story ideas and such. A lot of them come from The Star Wars idea. I once saw a big break down and it was pretty crazy.

I still think this is the story of Anakin's grandkids, but I think it is done very differently then what Lucas intended. We probably went from a group of kids, to Rey and Kylo, one on each side.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

George Lucas: “[The next three Star Wars films] were going to get into a microbiotic world. But there’s this world of creatures that operate differently than we do. I call them the Whills. And the Whills are the ones who actually control the universe. They feed off the Force.” “If I’d held onto the company I could have done it, and then it would have been done. Of course, a lot of the fans would have hated it, just like they did Phantom Menace and everything, but at least the whole story from beginning to end would be told.” (May 15, 2018 – James Cameron’s Story of Science Fiction TV show companion book) (images from book) (quote archive)

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I miss George.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

George Lucas: “Originally, I was trying to have the story be told by somebody else; there was somebody watching this whole story and recording it, somebody probably wiser than the mortal players in the actual events. I eventually dropped this idea, and the concept behind the Whills turned into the Force. But the Whills became part of this massive amount of notes, quotes, background information that I used for the scripts; the stories were actually taken from the ‘Journal of the Whills’.” (from Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays : Star Wars--a New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedihttps://books.google.com/books?id=eQ7ct2r14w0C)

 

[BatLobster]

I have incredibly mixed feelings hearing him say that though. On one hand, the whole "microbiotic" angle sounds like he wanted to make Midichlorians: The Movie, so I'm not at all surprised Disney ran in the other direction. It sounds like a pretty awful idea on paper, but I would've absolutely paid money to see whatever George had in mind and would still love to get a more detailed insight into how he saw the ST some day.

I've always been fascinated by the concept of the Whills, especially as it related to the sequel trilogy. The concept is definitely being floated around in recent canon though- both in Rogue One and the TFA novelization opens with a quote from the Journal of the Whills too, so I still hold out hope that they might figure into Episode IX in some way.

 

[Aximili86]

Well, up until this recent comment the notion of the Whills seemed to be as actual beings - really advanced beings, but still. It sounds like this microverse-intelligence thing is pretty different from all the speculation so far.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Star Wars: Darth Maul Was Original Sequel Trilogy Villain, Reveals George Lucas - IGN

Darth Maul trained a girl, Darth Talon, who was in the comic books, as his apprentice. She was the new Darth Vader, and most of the action was with her. So these were the two main villains of the trilogy. Maul eventually becomes the godfather of crime in the universe because, as the Empire falls, he takes over.

The movies are about how Leia -- I mean, who else is going to be the leader? -- is trying to build the Republic. They still have the apparatus of the Republic but they have to get it under control from the gangsters. That was the main story.

It starts out a few years after Return of the Jedi and we establish pretty quickly that there's this underworld, there are these offshoot stormtroopers who started their own planets, and that Luke is trying to restart the Jedi. He puts the word out, so out of 100,000 Jedi, maybe 50 or 100 are left. The Jedi have to grow again from scratch, so Luke has to find two- and three-year-olds, and train them. It'll be 20 years before you have a new generation of Jedi.

By the end of the trilogy Luke would have rebuilt much of the Jedi, and we would have the renewal of the New Republic, with Leia, Senator Organa, becoming the Supreme Chancellor in charge of everything. So she ended up being the Chosen One.

See also: [QUOTES] George Lucas

 

[DarkKnight88]

He ended up using those Darth Maul ideas in The Clone Wars.

 

[MadVillainy]

This thread bump made me afraid that we lost the man

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

More:

George Lucas: "I had planned for the first trilogy to be about the father, the second trilogy to be about the son, and the third trilogy to be about the daughter and the grandchildren. Episode VII, VIII, and IX would take ideas from what happened after the Iraq War. 'Okay, you fought the war, you killed everybody, now what are you going to do?' Rebuilding afterwards is harder than starting a rebellion or fighting the war. When you win the war and you disband the opposing army, what do they do? The stormtroopers would be like Saddam Hussein's Ba'athist fighters that joined ISIS and kept on fighting. The stormtroopers refuse to give up when the Republic win. They want to be stormtroopers forever, so they go to a far corner of the galaxy, start their own country and their own rebellion. There's a power vacuum so gangsters, like the Hutts, are taking advantage of the situation, and there is chaos. The key person is Darth Maul, who had been resurrected in The Clone Wars cartoons—he brings all the gangs together."

 

[Doctor Jones]

I don't agree with all the creative choices, but at least there's a thematic, thought out thru line to all of this. The story's progress comes from the consequences of the other story. I don't necessarily mind continuing the story of the Skywalkers as long as you push the story forward. I'm more okay with it coming from Lucas since that's been his vision versus someone else just doing it. Would this have taken place over many years?

I will say though, Maul being behind it all would have been one hell of a plot twist. It was shocking enough in Solo (Maul in that movie sounds a little like this one). Imagine if it was revealed at the end of 8.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

Giving Leia's daughter a female villain to fight and a brother to save from the dark side after joining Talon and a crime lord (Maul but somebody else could have been just as well) sounds appropriate. Would've liked to see that.

 

[Karelia]

Wow. That sounds... really, really awesome! Would have loved to see George Lucas sequel trilogy even more now. Disney really didn't want to go with that?

 

[Roose Bolton]

I’ll admit, I do love the idea of Maul’s crime lord persona growing into him becoming a galactic Kingpin and main saga baddie post-Palpatine. The rest of it sounds a little hit or miss to me, but that part at least I would have loved.