Ghost Rider part of WWH on #12 and #13!!

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I hope those issues are incorporated into the 3rd Graphic Novel of this series, whenever it comes out.

 

[HoboJoe]

I think two important thing happened in this arc. Hulks battle with Ghost Rider awaked his true power and essense, Hulk is so powerful I coulnd't see Blaze standing a chance without Ghost Rider taking the helm, and even after that with how enraged the Hulk is...I dont know if GR could take him anyways. Im a huge fan of both characters so im trying to be unbiased.

The second thing is Ghost Rider showed some of the MU heroes something very important. GR didnt take on the HUlk because the Hulk is the victim here, the heroes Dr. Strange, Reed Richards, Black Bolt, and Iron Man, are guilty. This is important because it should mean one or all of those guys is definitly responsible for the deaths of a million sentient living beings. This makes them mass murderers whether they are heroes or not.

 

[Mr Nick]

The more demonic, single-minded and furious Ghost Rider is, the happier I am.

So, I was very happy at the end of issue 13. It rocked.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

The more demonic, single-minded and furious Ghost Rider is, the happier I am.
So, I was very happy at the end of issue 13. It rocked.

t: Me too, i havent read these issues yet, waiting for the GN version to come out, but they sound amazing.

 

[TwilightPro101]

Did as well. Glad to see Ghost Rider back to form.

 

[Wolfman]

I read this comic resently and it was weird. Ghost Rider was like some comedic character. It was very strange, since my memories of him was that he is really serious and raw. But in this he's like a clown. He thinks he's chain is wrapped around Hulk and he cheers like an idiot:"I got him!!! Hahaa!" (or something like that), only to discover that Hulk tied his chain around a subway train. There was other things like that, but can't remember any others now. But it was always him like "Now i got him! Damn, he tricked me! Haa!! Now! Damn..." etc. What the fck was that? I haven't read Ghost Rider comics in years and this is what I get. Weird.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Wolfman,

That wasn't Ghost Rider, that was Johnny Blaze. Ghost Rider doesn't take over until the very end of the issue when Dr. Strange realizes that 'the safety is off.'

In the new comic, Blaze can sometimes take control over Ghost Rider's powers. That's why it seems like he was fighting with himself, for instance when he told GR to 'shut up.'

 

[Wolfman]

Ahh, okay. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Anyone know when the next GR Graphic novel is out? Just got TLADOJB but havent read it yet, the art in the first half is terrible!

 

[Cain Estrell]

Anyone know when the next GR Graphic novel is out? Just got TLADOJB but havent read it yet, the art in the first half is terrible!

Hehe... May I assume that you're referring to the great Richard Corben's "beautiful" art (sarcasm)?

Believe me, I nearly puked after seeing THAT, myself!

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

^Its terrible isnt it! Its like kids drawings, thankfully i'm past that part now though.

 

[Cain Estrell]

^Its terrible isnt it! Its like kids drawings, thankfully i'm past that part now though.

One of the most HIDEOUS sights I've ever laid my eyes on, in fact!

Now that I'm done with issues 6 & 7, I'm thinking of giving them away before 'THOSE faces' bring me anymore nightmares............

 

[NDX]

You two have no sense.

 

[Cain Estrell]

You two have no sense.

^ You're right (*Ashamed* )..... Mr. Corben's built a legacy for himself over the looooong years he's been drawing. I suppose it's disrespectful of me NOT to acknowledge some of the better qualities in the man's artistic style: For one, I was impressed with the detail he gave Satan -- the bulkier, "Ogre-like" design was a welcome change from Jarv & Tex's own; Plus, the whole scenes with the 'burning cross' in issue #7 was quite awe-inspiring, as well.

But.......those...hideously...deformed...faces....Ugh! Its quite obvious that Corben's style is more on adding "visual horror" into the reader's point of view. He seems to intentionally draw his characters to resemble zombies & ghouls - complete with disjointed limbs & ominous 'shading' (this one's hard to explain, but it's there) - in order to give the comic a more "psychologically-disturbing" feel. Heck, the whole "jail-scene" conversation between JB & Clay, alone, almost scared the living hell outta me!

As an artist, Richard Corben's 'distinctive skill' is an acquired taste, to be sure. Its clear that he knows how to bring a "powerful effect" on his highly-stylized art -- comparable to the way Picasso did with his own abstract masterpieces.

On that note, the man's got GREAT talent, I'll give him that ! But unfortunately, its NOT everyone's "cup of tea" (myself included).

Sorry, its just that - being more of a Mike Ploog, Gil Kane, and Javier Saltares fan - I'm not used to THIS kind of artwork; And perhaps, AVEI too ......... Its all a matter of personal taste, and it just so happens that we're not digging Corben's. I hope that explains why I'm so adamantly against his work on GR.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Its still not as bad as Pop Mhan.

 

[NDX]

^ You're right (*Ashamed* )..... Mr. Corben's built a legacy for himself over the looooong years he's been drawing. I suppose it's disrespectful of me NOT to acknowledge some of the better qualities in the man's artistic style: For one, I was impressed with the detail he gave Satan -- the bulkier, "Ogre-like" design was a welcome change from Jarv & Tex's own; Plus, the whole scenes with the 'burning cross' in issue #7 was quite awe-inspiring, as well.

But.......those...hideously...deformed...faces....Ugh! Its quite obvious that Corben's style is more on adding "visual horror" into the reader's point of view. He seems to intentionally draw his characters to resemble zombies & ghouls - complete with disjointed limbs & ominous 'shading' (this one's hard to explain, but it's there) - in order to give the comic a more "psychologically-disturbing" feel. Heck, the whole "jail-scene" conversation between JB & Clay, alone, almost scared the living hell outta me!

As an artist, Richard Corben's 'distinctive skill' is an acquired taste, to be sure. Its clear that he knows how to bring a "powerful effect" on his highly-stylized art -- comparable to the way Picasso did with his own abstract masterpieces.

On that note, the man's got GREAT talent, I'll give him that ! But unfortunately, its NOT everyone's "cup of tea" (myself included).

Sorry, its just that - being more of a Mike Ploog, Gil Kane, and Javier Saltares fan - I'm not used to THIS kind of artwork; And perhaps, AVEI too ......... Its all a matter of personal taste, and it just so happens that we're not digging Corben's. I hope that explains why I'm so adamantly against his work on GR.

Now that I respect. I have no problem with not liking his art, I can easily see why it would put people off, but to outright claim that it's terrible and he's a bad artist is just uncalled for an not true in the least.

 

[NDX]

Its still not as bad as Pop Mhan.

Oddly enough, I really dig Pop Mhan's art in general, but his style was just a horrible choice for Ghost Rider. He didn't really capture the darkness required for the character. His Ghostie looked too cartoonie, taking away from him.

In general, i think Larocca, as good as his art was (is), was a bit similar. There were many time in the comic that the art didn't reflect the subject matter. And then you had his masterful work with Skinner and those 2 4-part arcs that really came off great. He was hit or miss.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Oddly enough, I really dig Pop Mhan's art in general, but his style was just a horrible choice for Ghost Rider. He didn't really capture the darkness required for the character. His Ghostie looked too cartoonie, taking away from him.

In general, i think Larocca, as good as his art was (is), was a bit similar. There were many time in the comic that the art didn't reflect the subject matter. And then you had his masterful work with Skinner and those 2 4-part arcs that really came off great. He was hit or miss.

I respectfully disagree. I absolutely loved LaRoccas artwork, every single page. Near the end of his run he was quoted as saying he wanted to mimic the style of a certain X-Men artist (whose name I can't remember) who apparently drew his characters in less detail, but with a more 'comic' look. He said it usually took him longer to draw his comics (since he put so much detail in them) and that he was trying to 'revamp' his style in order to allow him to draw more in less time. You can see his style change considerably near the end of his run when Velez took over during the final issues of the "No Penance" arc.

It was during LaRoccas fabulous run on the series that I really got into Ghost Rider. The way he drew Blackheart and Ghost Rider was very nice (in his early issues). This guy just draws SKULLS very well. If you doubt it, look at his run in the UK comic: Deaths Head II..which is an underrated comic BTW.

My favorite spread was the spread during the "In Chains" arc where Ghost Rider and Skinner battle it out in the "Black Hole". There is a two page spread where Ghost Rider rips the skin off of Skinner and he draws the skull (when he drew it axially) with such detail, you can tell he studied it while drawing it:

 

[NDX]

I am a huge fan of Death's Head II, I liked Larocca's run in it, but nothing ever lived up to Sharp's work on the series. His work was the best I had seen at the time, and still is today. His evolution to a darker style in Man-Thing was great, would have loved to have seen Sharp handle GR.

But I digress. I never said Larocca was bad, it was very good. I tried many times, with many failures, to mimic his art style plenty in the past during High School. But I thought that in a handful of issues, I thought he could have handled them a little better.

And yes, his skull/skeletal work is very good. He truly made Blackout look as he should have. The best artist to attack him. And his work with Skinner was good, but some of the other characters were meh. And the redesign to Vengence was just unnecessary.

 

[Cain Estrell]

Its still not as bad as Pop Mhan.

Pop Mhan's art I'd rather NOT comment on, but......

.....on Salvador Larocca's artwork? Agreed. His was undoubtedly one of the better styles found in Vol. 2's later run -- not just during the "In Chains" arc, but in "Betrayals", as well. Although there were always a few details I disliked about his art (e.g. GR having too much "muscle"; tiny eye-sockets; & an oversized body), the man could SERIOUSLY DRAW, nonetheless!

It's just too bad that Larocca's art soon noticeably began to drop in quality. When he debuted Ghost Rider's "new-improved" costume in issue #79 (y'know: That....god...awful...JUMPSUIT that thoroughly killed the character, for me!), a great amount of 'detail' from his earlier drawings were lost.

 

[Cain Estrell]

^ That aside, I think the artists whom EVER really came close to the greatness of Vol. 2 originals (namely Jarv & Tex), were Ron Garney and Adam Kubert of "Spirits of Vengeance". I, for one, am missing Kubert's art on the characters of Vengeance & Johnny Blaze (especially Vengeance!) ........

I would love to see them return to penciling Vol. 3, too, someday.

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

I have to defend Larocca, the Mcdonalds Yellow and Red costume was designed by the X-men Artist Chris Bachalo.

Also, LaRocca's art 'deterioration' was his attempt to mimic Chris Bachalo's style.

LaRoccas style is great on his own. Ron Garney and the Kubert's were also great contributors. The best Ron Garney GR artwork (In my opinion) was probably in the Dark Design comic.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Now that I respect. I have no problem with not liking his art, I can easily see why it would put people off, but to outright claim that it's terrible and he's a bad artist is just uncalled for an not true in the least.

Well yeah, sorry, it wasnt that it was bad, i just didnt think it fit GR personally.

 

[BURNFOREVER]

I have to defend Larocca, the Mcdonalds Yellow and Red costume was designed by the X-men Artist Chris Bachalo.

Also, LaRocca's art 'deterioration' was his attempt to mimic Chris Bachalo's style.

LaRoccas style is great on his own. Ron Garney and the Kubert's were also great contributors. The best Ron Garney GR artwork (In my opinion) was probably in the Dark Design comic.

I beg to differ, my dear friend, but the controversial GR 90´s costume was designed by Adam Polina, who made X-Force at the time.
And yes, Larroca and Garney are awesome artists. But my 90´s fav is undoubtely Andy & Joe Kubert. Christ! Good times...
GR4EVR!!!

 

[Midnyte_Sun]

Damn you're right it was Adam Polina. I used to have that issue of Marvel "Visions" when they showed the sneak peak of his new garb...they also posted it on one of the GR issues i think as well..I know I saved it somewhere on my computer.


Here it is...

You know the costume design isnt that bad except that GR should stay in Black leathers, I think this would have looked cool in Black...His bike is too "Akira"-like and that should never have seen the light of day. It didn't even match the story of the comic at all...maybe if GR sprang up in Japan 2099 it would be a good idea...