Action-Adventure Ghostbusters: Frozen Empire

[Sithborg]

A bad father. But I wouldn’t call him a stalker by any stretch. It’s his daughter, his blood. He’s not after something nefarious nor harassing. Wouldn’t it be way weirder he didn’t keep any photos or accomplishments of her at all?

I don’t think any grown adult would think of their parent as a “stalker” in the way it’s presented here.

No, what's weird is that his little stalker board is presented as a sign that he actually cared, even though phones and the post office exists. Its one thing if the relationship was presented as being strained because he was gone, but still had some contact. It is another whole god damn thing when it is talked about how he was simply gone, no contact. They are trying to sell me an emotional narrative that I just cannot accept.

 

[henzINNIT]

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'stalking', but I do agree that the film tries to wring too much emotion out of Egon keeping photos. I quite liked that moment because it complicated Callie's feelings toward her absent father. I hate that it turned out to be a step toward a teary hug with ghost dad. Egon was a terrible father. He hadn't earned Callie's forgiveness at all, but it happened for maximum sap. The film was too shy to let Egon be a complicated person. If I'm honest, I think being a terrible father tracks well with his character. Roll with it.

I don't disagree with any of that.
But at the same time there are many things in the original film that are contrived, unconvincing too yet nobody talks about it. Like, how they got all their equipment?? They went from being fired to having these spectacular neutrona wands, a containment unit for ghosts we don't know how it works or how was it made, where did they get all the materials to create the ghost traps... etc etc. We don't mind because it's a quick route to them becoming Ghostbusters, we just accept it as it is.
That's exactly what I did with Afterlife too. There's a huge gap in time without Ghostbusters, there had to be a reason why they were not doing that anymore. And with a main character gone, there wasn't much left for them to do than to explain it some way. I'm willing to accept the contrivances because in the end there's an emotional resolution.

With respect I think those are two very different things. "How'd they build that equipment?" is something no-one really cares about, except for someone's pendantic 'plot-hole' list. It is part of the conceit, they know the science and are developing the tech. My complaint about Egon's isolation is that the reason given seems incredibly out of character. They essentially throw Ray under the bus in order to get things where they were, so the emotional resolution rings false - to me of course.

 

[DyeLorean]

With respect I think those are two very different things. "How'd they build that equipment?" is something no-one really cares about, except for someone's pendantic 'plot-hole' list. It is part of the conceit, they know the science and are developing the tech. My complaint about Egon's isolation is that the reason given seems incredibly out of character. They essentially throw Ray under the bus in order to get things where they were, so the emotional resolution rings false - to me of course.

Sure, I see your point. I think Ray not believing him is more out of character than Egon being obsessed and losing his mind, specially having age into account.
I hope we got a bit more context about all those things in Frozen Empire.

 

[henzINNIT]

Sure, I see your point. I think Ray not believing him is more out of character than Egon being obsessed and losing his mind, specially having age into account.
I hope we got a bit more context about all those things in Frozen Empire.

Oh for sure. For the record, I have no issue with Egon becoming a recluse, it's Ray's role in it that I don't like. He's the believer. There's no way he'd be skeptical of Egon's warnings, especially if it involved Gozer of all creatures. Shandor was all over public record there too, so it's not like it was a wild theory. If the two had simply fallen out of touch with each-other over time, my issue disappears.

It'll be interesting to see what backstory tidbits appear in Frozen Empire. Looking forward to it too, though they will probably step on my beloved video game :'(

 

[BatLobster]

I totally agree that in an ideal world, Ray and Egon's roles would've been reversed in the story. I can totally see that they had to do that switcheroo to accommodate the whole setup of the film with the Spenglers and the farmhouse. I was willing to accept it just because I think the rest of the film worked so well and the emotional payoff worked for me.

I wouldn't go so far as to say 'stalking', but I do agree that the film tries to wring too much emotion out of Egon keeping photos. I quite liked that moment because it complicated Callie's feelings toward her absent father. I hate that it turned out to be a step toward a teary hug with ghost dad. Egon was a terrible father. He hadn't earned Callie's forgiveness at all, but it happened for maximum sap. The film was too shy to let Egon be a complicated person. If I'm honest, I think being a terrible father tracks well with his character. Roll with it.

The thing for me is that the whole franchise is built on the premise that ghosts are scientifically proven as real. So I don't see a huge problem with the idea of...okay, Egon was a bad/absent dad who got lost in his work. Now he's dead, but of course he's still around. So he's trying to be there for his family now in a way that he wasn't before. I just think that works fine as a story point in a Ghostbusters movie. It's basically the trope of "it's never too late to make amends", just played out between the realm of the living and the dead.

I'm not saying it's all handled perfectly, but overall...just like with any movie, I weigh everything out and in the end, it did enough good to win me over. Just trying to clarify where I'm coming from, because there's a level of venom I see against this movie that gets to be a bit much IMO. I'm not here to tell anybody that it's a some sort of masterpiece, but when some folks act like it's actual cinematic cancer (not saying you @henzINNIT just in general), then yeah, I feel like it deserves a little defending because there genuine reasons that people enjoyed it beyond just the existence of member berries.

 

[DyeLorean]

Oh for sure. For the record, I have no issue with Egon becoming a recluse, it's Ray's role in it that I don't like. He's the believer. There's no way he'd be skeptical of Egon's warnings, especially if it involved Gozer of all creatures. Shandor was all over public record there too, so it's not like it was a wild theory. If the two had simply fallen out of touch with each-other over time, my issue disappears.

They could've taken more time to write that speech of Ray over the phone. Maybe Ray did go to the ranch and they saw nothing major up until that point, but Egon stayed to keep an eye of things and then that's when he became a hermit and separated from the group. And that's why Ray knew where to go at the end. I don't know, something.

 

[BatLobster]

They could've taken more time to write that speech of Ray over the phone. Maybe Ray did go to the ranch and they saw nothing major up until that point, but Egon stayed to keep an eye of things and then that's when he became a hermit and separated from the group. And that's why Ray knew where to go at the end. I don't know, something.

I can't help but feel that they probably wanted to make the speech as short as possible to avoid grinding the film to a halt with even more detailed exposition than there already was. Sometimes I do feel like, if you're going to do an exposition dump, rip the band-aid off and really do an exposition dump. It might hurt the pacing a little, but at least you'll get across to the audience the context that you're trying to get across. It seems like there's no way around it if you're going to tell a story with a 30 year gap where a lot of things have changed.

That part felt a little undercooked, for sure.

 

[DyeLorean]

I can't help but feel that they probably wanted to make the speech as short as possible to avoid grinding the film to a halt with even more detailed exposition than there already was. Sometimes I do feel like, if you're going to do an exposition dump, rip the band-aid off and really do an exposition dump. It might hurt the pacing a little, but at least you'll get across to the audience the context that you're trying to get across. It seems like there's no way around it if you're going to tell a story with a 30 year gap where a lot of things have changed.

That part felt a little undercooked, for sure.

Then intercut with footage of them in between movies, not de-age or anything, but maybe just shadows, figures of them investigating in the cave at night. Like little snippets of footage to show that they still met occasionally.
What I'm trying to say is, if they wanted, they could have.

 

[henzINNIT]

Honestly even just using Janine for more exposition instead of Ray would have worked too. She could explain how Egon up and left, and then to Ray he was just an old friend who he lost contact with. There was no reason Ray had to know anything about Egon's situation other than to provide exposition.

New film means new merch and I'm hoping Hasbro give their 6-inch figure line some more love. Another reason to be excited for Frozen Empire, ha.

 

[TheVileOne]

My problem with the first movie is they didn't explain the whole Egon has a daughter and family he never knew about. To me it was shocking that Ray and co. had no idea who these people were and they weren't even mildly shocked that Egon had this family. They all f'n lived together!

So basically, I think the implication is that Egon Spengler had a daughter, and she was born even before the first movie. OK I can sort of go with that. But none of them ever knew she existed? What is Callie's story, and how did no one ever know about her? Why did Egon never help her if she was having divorce problems, rent problems, single mom, etc.?

I just found it problematic that Egon never visited or had a relationship with his grandkids until AFTER he died. Why did he constantly push his daughter away?

In the second movie, after the team had broken up, Egon looked to be doing just fine. He was like a professor and doing medical studies at colleges. Why couldn't he have a relationship with his daughter at that point? Why did his ex-girlfriend, whoever she was, not want Egon to see her? None of this was ever properly explained or set up.

Like if I'm Ray, Peter, and Winston, I'd be kind of pissed, "What do you mean Egon had a whole family and we never knew about them? Why didn't he tell us? What the hell? We were best friends!"

 

[TheVileOne]

I can't help but feel that they probably wanted to make the speech as short as possible to avoid grinding the film to a halt with even more detailed exposition than there already was. Sometimes I do feel like, if you're going to do an exposition dump, rip the band-aid off and really do an exposition dump. It might hurt the pacing a little, but at least you'll get across to the audience the context that you're trying to get across. It seems like there's no way around it if you're going to tell a story with a 30 year gap where a lot of things have changed.

That part felt a little undercooked, for sure.

Janine knew about the ranch. She didn't seem shocked or confused about Egon's family though, which weirds me out.

To me there are a lot of uncomfortable questions raised about Egon having this estranged family the movie never properly addresses.

Egon was for all intents and purposes, a deadbeat father.

 

[TheVileOne]

A bad father. But I wouldn’t call him a stalker by any stretch. It’s his daughter, his blood. He’s not after something nefarious nor harassing. Wouldn’t it be way weirder he didn’t keep any photos or accomplishments of her at all?

I don’t think any grown adult would think of their parent as a “stalker” in the way it’s presented here.

Egon Spengler is a terrible deadbeat father. The movie downplayed it but there's no getting around it. And The movie never rectifies it. It tries to rectify by showing him keeping photos of Callie, but IMHO the whole subplot was problematic.

 

[henzINNIT]

My problem with the first movie is they didn't explain the whole Egon has a daughter and family he never knew about. To me it was shocking that Ray and co. had no idea who these people were and they weren't even mildly shocked that Egon had this family. They all f'n lived together!

So basically, I think the implication is that Egon Spengler had a daughter, and she was born even before the first movie. OK I can sort of go with that. But none of them ever knew she existed? What is Callie's story, and how did no one ever know about her? Why did Egon never help her if she was having divorce problems, rent problems, single mom, etc.?

I just found it problematic that Egon never visited or had a relationship with his grandkids until AFTER he died. Why did he constantly push his daughter away?

In the second movie, after the team had broken up, Egon looked to be doing just fine. He was like a professor and doing medical studies at colleges. Why couldn't he have a relationship with his daughter at that point? Why did his ex-girlfriend, whoever she was, not want Egon to see her? None of this was ever properly explained or set up.

Like if I'm Ray, Peter, and Winston, I'd be kind of pissed, "What do you mean Egon had a whole family and we never knew about them? Why didn't he tell us? What the hell? We were best friends!"

Maybe I'm a bit evil, but I'm perfectly happy with Egon being all of these things. It feels natural for his character to be this closed off from everyone around him, compartmentalizing everything into seperate groups that never interact. I can totally see him having a kid that he has little interest in as a father. I can totally see him never sharing that with any of his work-mates. He's quite singularly focused on his science, a bit of a robot. In the original film it is used for great comedic effect, and it is potentially interesting to explore more dramatic repercussions of his choices.

All of this only becomes a problem for me when the film side-steps this lingering emotion and says it is all okay because Egon cared deep down. His friends don't have the screen time to unpack any of it, and Callie goes from constantly making resentful comments about her deadbeat dad, to an emotional embrace once she found out he cared enough to keep some pictures. Too much. Not earned.

 

[DyeLorean]

I don't know why I always thought Egon had her daughter after GBII. I never did the math.

 

[TheVileOne]

Maybe I'm a bit evil, but I'm perfectly happy with Egon being all of these things. It feels natural for his character to be this closed off from everyone around him, compartmentalizing everything into seperate groups that never interact. I can totally see him having a kid that he has little interest in as a father. I can totally see him never sharing that with any of his work-mates. He's quite singularly focused on his science, a bit of a robot. In the original film it is used for great comedic effect, and it is potentially interesting to explore more dramatic repercussions of his choices.

All of this only becomes a problem for me when the film side-steps this lingering emotion and says it is all okay because Egon cared deep down. His friends don't have the screen time to unpack any of it, and Callie goes from constantly making resentful comments about her deadbeat dad, to an emotional embrace once she found out he cared enough to keep some pictures. Too much. Not earned.

I can accept those things if they properly address it, but as you said, the movie side-steps it.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[DyeLorean]

 

[DyeLorean]

 

[Mysteryman]

View attachment 80927

View attachment 80928

View attachment 80929

View attachment 80930

Sta Puff,ICE!

 

[Dave McFly]

I know this sounds silly but how would the Ecto 1 still be using the blue on yellow plates from part 1 and Afterlife. those plates would not be allowed on a car as they are retired. In NY when a plate style gets retired you have to turn them in you have the option to have a new plate issued with the same characters on it (look at the plate on the car in the opening of part 2 it is the blue on white 'liberty' plate but it still says ECTO 1). It can still use that designation but it would be on the current gen NY tag which does bring back the blue on yellow color but now it has a blue border along one of the top and the words EMPIRE STATE at the bottom.

 

[DyeLorean]

 

[Pennywise]

 

[DyeLorean]

 

[DarkKnight]

I'm loving the posters and promotional materials. I seen the popcorn souvenir buckets that some theaters are going to be selling. There was a couple of them that I want lol. I've got a few Real Ghostbusters and Movie Ghostbusters figures on display from my collection they would go nicely with.

 

[DyeLorean]