Girl arrest for dropping a cake.

[bell110]

Who do I believe? Let see, the people involved are Girl, Filmer, Sister, Mom, Guard, Principal.

I know nothing about any of these people whatsoever... Including whether or not the guard is a "Meat-Head" (nice way to assume what he is based on profession by the way) So I'm going to go with the Principal, who is obviously learned enough to achieve such a position, and the security guard who was hired and approved to work with kids in a highly stressful environment. But what do I know, they probably just handed the titles to the most petty and violent people they could find right?

Good answer.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

courtesy and discipline aren't enforced with force... really? Look up the definition of "Corpral Punishment" and be surprised to learn that I went to several schools where this was a standard. "Ma'am" and "Sir" were also enforced. and out of curiosity, how the hell are you suppose dto enforce rules without force?

Well, I guess that explains why you believe in the things you believe in, because you apparently when to some very terrible schools, and for that, I feel sorry for you.

And if you can't tell the difference between "giving students detention" and "giving students bruises to go home with" then...yikes. I'm glad most people can. (In case you don't understand, the former is the right way to punish)

 

[Zoken]

What I believe are my own two eyes, and what they've seen is a teenage girl with her arm twisted behind her back by a grown man.

You're very naiive, if you immediately believe in those who are in authority.

If we blindly believed in authority figures, Hitler would've won, Nixon never would've been exposed as a rotten criminal, and people the world over would love George Bush.

Look, I'm being skeptical because I know what it's like to have someone spin things completely out of control against you so that you are in trouble for something you didn't even approach doing.

Teenage girl with arm twisted behidn her back by a grown man... would you prefer the security team was made up of teenagers, who would be more apt to abuse power than adults, or maybe you'd prefer it be all women. Or is that she was stopped. How would you like them to detain and restrain her? maybe they should have just tased her. Or, they could have used OC on the whole crowd, yes, that would have been better.

Look, you're getting hot under the collar because you got a story that is just patently ridiculous and is full of very obvious half truths.

 

[bell110]

What I believe are my own two eyes, and what they've seen is a teenage girl with her arm twisted behind her back by a grown man.

You're very naiive, if you immediately believe in those who are in authority.

If we blindly believed in authority figures, Hitler would've won, Nixon never would've been exposed as a rotten criminal, and people the world over would love George Bush.

Your eye can be deceived. That's WHY Bush won and Hitler won, because people believed what they saw and didn't think for themselves.

What did we see? A fifteen second clip of a girl being arrested. There is no context behind what happend. All we have to go by is the statements by one party. And is it so hard to believe that the girl and her mother might LIE to get money out of the school.

 

[Zoken]

Well, I guess that explains why you believe in the things you believe in, because you apparently when to some very terrible schools, and for that, I feel sorry for you.

And if you can't tell the difference between "giving students detention" and "giving students bruises to go home with" then...yikes. I'm glad most people can. (In case you don't understand, the former is the right way to punish)

I went to great schools that taught me how to be a polite and well mannered person. They taught me tht violence is never a good idea, but some times it's the only idea.

Bruises? Please, you act like this is some every day thing. and, out of curiosity, which do you think will be more effect if in detering poor behavior, boring the kid for an hour, or making associate the behavior with physical pain, but in a way that causes no lasting physical damage? Which one do you think is most effective?

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Teenage girl with arm twisted behidn her back by a grown man... would you prefer the security team was made up of teenagers, who would be more apt to abuse power than adults, or maybe you'd prefer it be all women. Or is that she was stopped. How would you like them to detain and restrain her? maybe they should have just tased her. Or, they could have used OC on the whole crowd, yes, that would have been better.

I would prefer physical force not be used in situations that don't call for it, which, from as much as I've gathered so far, was the case.

If it turns out that the girl was flailing wildly and posed a physical threat to herself or others, then I'll gladly eat my words. And my hat.

 

[Zoken]

I would prefer physical force not be used in situations that don't call for it, which, from as much as I've gathered so far, was the case.

If it turns out that the girl was flailing wildly and posed a physical threat to herself or others, then I'll gladly eat my words. And my hat.

Given that she was a teenager, I'm going to get you some ketchup for that hat.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

I went to great schools that taught me how to be a polite and well mannered person. They taught me tht violence is never a good idea, but some times it's the only idea.

Bruises? Please, you act like this is some every day thing. and, out of curiosity, which do you think will be more effect if in detering poor behavior, boring the kid for an hour, or making associate the behavior with physical pain, but in a way that causes no lasting physical damage? Which one do you think is most effective?

I don't give a steaming crap which is more effective. Which is more humane is the question, one that has an obvious answer.

I went to schools that used non-violent (should there be any other kind?) methods of discipline such as detention and extra work. And I didn't come out as some sort of unrestrained manimal. This damn nuns with rulers mentality has mostly gone the way of the dodo, and rightfully so.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Given that she was a teenager, I'm going to get you some ketchup for that hat.

Is that an assumption there?

 

[Zoken]

I don't give a steaming crap which is more effective. Which is more humane is the question, one that has an obvious answer.

I went to schools that used non-violent (should there be any other kind?) methods of discipline such as detention and extra work. And I didn't come out as some sort of unrestrained manimal. This damn nuns with rulers mentality has mostly gone the way of the dodo, and rightfully so.

Right, because rules and authority is bad in every single situation and one should never turst anyone who tries to do things with force. Look, I didn't just go to high school, I work at a prison. Some of these people could do with a little corporal punishment.

Is that an assumption there?

a well founded one. Adolesence is marked by surging hormones which cause volatile mood shifts and attitude problems, and thus a greater likely hood of innappropriate reactions and poorly thought out responses. Not to mention kids these days seem to think they're entitled to whatever they want and no matter what they do there are no consequences. So when someone FINALLY tries to levy some control on them they have unecessarily extreme reactions.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Right, because rules and authority is bad in every single situation and one should never turst anyone who tries to do things with force. Look, I didn't just go to high school, I work at a prison. Some of these people could do with a little corporal punishment.

a well founded one. Adolesence is marked by surging hormones which cause volatile mood shifts and attitude problems, and thus a greater likely hood of innappropriate reactions and poorly thought out responses. Not to mention kids these days seem to think they're entitled to whatever they want and no matter what they do there are no consequences. So when someone FINALLY tries to levy some control on them they have unecessarily extreme reactions.

When did I say they're always bad? Your reply absolutely doesn't jive with my statement, in which I mentioned logical, humane, appropriate, and (thankfully) commonplace methods of punishment in American schools.

Are you really comparing public schools to prisons? Let me see: one is where children are legally required to attend in order to be educated, the other is where adults are sent to be removed from society or reformed because they've commited a crime.

Your assumption is just as well-founded as mine, that (like many teenagers are out of control) many people in positions of authority abuse that authority. Not all, but many. Do you deny this?

P.S. How ironic is it that the out-of-control, entitled, "me, me!" generation is the one dying in Iraq, on the orders of the always trustworthy authorities in Washington?

 

[Zoken]

When did I say they're always bad? Your reply absolutely doesn't jive with my statement, in which I mentioned logical, humane, appropriate, and (thankfully) commonplace methods of punishment in American schools.

Are you really comparing public schools to prisons? Let me see: one is where children are legally required to attend in order to be educated, the other is where adults are sent when to be removed from society or reformed because they've commited a crime.

Your assumption is just as well-founded as mine, that (like many teenagers are out of control) many people in positions of authority abuse that authority. Not all, but many. Do you deny this?

Logical, humane, appropriate, and commonplace... Logical, it is far more logical that associating poor behavior with physical pain is more effective than detention. Humane, They aren't being disfigured, starved, beaten with in an inch of their lives, or violated, they are being given a predetermined number of strakes with moderate force on a portion of their body where it stands no chance of doing lasting phsyical harm, and then the punishment is over. Appropriate, I forgot, everything must be to YOUR ideas of morals and ethics, everone else's views are invalid next to yours, how foolish of me. Commonplace, corporal punishment is common place.

Why do I compare Prisons and Schools... I was speaking in terms of punishment. I was refering to the fact that no one wants to be the bad guy anymore. no one wants to hold people accountable for their actions. and you know what, I wouldn't mind comparing Schools and Prisons. My School days were obviously far less enjoyable than yours.

Your assumption is based on assumptions, and a half-assed understanding of psychology. mine is based on biology, biochemistry, physiology, and psychology.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Logical, humane, appropriate, and commonplace... Logical, it is far more logical that associating poor behavior with physical pain is more effective than detention. Humane, They aren't being disfigured, starved, beaten with in an inch of their lives, or violated, they are being given a predetermined number of strakes with moderate force on a portion of their body where it stands no chance of doing lasting phsyical harm, and then the punishment is over. Appropriate, I forgot, everything must be to YOUR ideas of morals and ethics, everone else's views are invalid next to yours, how foolish of me. Commonplace, corporal punishment is common place.

Why do I compare Prisons and Schools... I was speaking in terms of punishment. I was refering to the fact that no one wants to be the bad guy anymore. no one wants to hold people accountable for their actions. and you know what, I wouldn't mind comparing Schools and Prisons. My School days were obviously far less enjoyable than yours.

Your assumption is based on assumptions, and a half-assed understanding of psychology. mine is based on biology, biochemistry, physiology, and psychology.

Obviously we do not share the same morals and ethics, as you appear to have very few. It's funny because your argument is that this type of discipline doesn't leave lasting scars, but your personality says otherwise.

Yes, my school days were enjoyable. I respected authority and they respected me. They were public servants paid to do a job; provide me with an education. Everyone came out happy. The few times I did something "wrong," I was dealt with appropriately by the methods I've explained. And again, I didn't come out as a morally bankrupt, out of control monster. I learned my lessons without one whack.

I'm not going to tout biology because I don't have any to back me up (because as far as I'm aware, no one's ever done testing on the effects of authority on adult males), but I think being able to cite countless examples in history is enough evidence.

 

[Zoken]

Obviously we do not share the same morals and ethics, as you appear to have very few. It's funny because your argument is that this type of discipline doesn't leave lasting scars, but your personality says otherwise.

Yes, my school days were enjoyable. I respected authority and they respected me. They were public servants paid to do a job; provide me with an education. Everyone came out happy. The few times I did something "wrong," I was dealt with appropriately by the methods I've explained. And again, I didn't come out as a morally bankrupt, out of control monster. I learned my lessons without one whack.

I'm not going to tout biology because I don't have any to back me up (because as far as I'm aware, no one's ever done testing on the effects of authority on adult males), but I think being able to cite countless examples in history is enough evidence.

Buddy, you don't want to get into my issues, they are numerous and deep, but have nothing to do with the type of discipline I've been held to, nor with the type I believe in. Just because I believe in stricter and harsher punishments than you do does not make me morally bankrupt.

You're school days were enjoyable... good for you. Mine were spent dodging people who wanted to pound me for no better reason than I was different, being repeatedly ridiculed and insulted because I was different, and having my sexuality questioned because, you guessed it, I was different. And do you know what was done to protect me rights... not a damn thing. I was treated like dirt because I saw things differently, mostly because I moved around a lot. THAT is where my issues come from.

and as to your "Historical evidence of male adults being tyrants if given authority" the only "Historical Evidence" that matters is any you could provide that show this specific guard being overly violent, authoritarian, and racist. I'm not even saying I know he's innocent, I'm saying that there has to be more going on in this story and I'm not damning him until I hear it from all sides. I'm sorry if my giving someone the benifit of the doubt upsets you. I'll try and give it to someone who ISN'T an authority figure next time.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

and as to your "Historical evidence of male adults being tyrants if given authority" the only "Historical Evidence" that matters is any you could provide that show this specific guard being overly violent, authoritarian, and racist. I'm not even saying I know he's innocent, I'm saying that there has to be more going on in this story and I'm not damning him until I hear it from all sides. I'm sorry if my giving someone the benifit of the doubt upsets you. I'll try and give it to someone who ISN'T an authority figure next time.

I'll provide it when you provide the evidence that this particularly teenage girl's hormones bounced out of control, throwing her into a fit (a fit that didn't even occur, judging by what's been seen so far).

And I'm sorry to hear about your troubles in school, but there are not two types of discipline - nonexistent and corporal. Your school(s) should've taken measures to curb bullying, as all schools should, but that doesn't mean I advocate any physical punishment, period. If appropriate, the police should be brought in and legal measures be taken. But violence only breeds more violence.

 

[Zoken]

I'll provide it when you provide the evidence that this particularly teenage girl's hormones bounced out of control, throwing her into a fit (a fit that didn't even occur, judging by what's been seen so far).

And I'm sorry to hear about your troubles in school, but there are not two types of discipline - nonexistent and corporal. Your school(s) should've taken measures to curb bullying, as all schools should, but that doesn't mean I advocate any physical punishment, period. If appropriate, the police should be brought in and legal measures be taken. But violence only breeds more violence.

What the hell? Now you're being contrary. You're saying police should be brought in and legal measures taken... WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED IN THIS STORY!? Those involved were arrested (says so in the title of the thread), but you don't think the police should be able to Physically arrest them. No, what they should do is just hand them the cuffs and ask politely for the person to put them on, that'll work great.

Speaking generally works when you have several sciences backing you up. It does not work when you have a bit of history and half-assed psychology.

 

[Addendum]

You seriously don't think that kids have to clean up their own mess at school because they have janitors? Especially if the mess was made on purpose?

How do we know it was made on purpose? Last time I checked, a person that is carrying something and drops it through tripping, losing their footing, or bumping into something (a table that you couldn't see, another person, or you're going through a door as another person is using that same door going in) are considered "accidents"

 

[Zoken]

Is it not still good manners to clean up ones mess, even if it is on accident?

 

[Addendum]

At home

 

[Zoken]

At home

How much time does the average teenager spend at home?

Besides, you know in Japan it is the student's job to clean the classroom AND serve lunch.

 

[Addendum]

And since this happened in the United States, not Japan, I'll just watch your comment about Japanese schools fall off the cliff

 

[Sloth7d]

Can I point out that is was not confirmed that her wrist was broken? I mean, the article (legitimate one) says that she CLAIMS her wrist was broken and then showed up in a cast.

When she was arrested she had no cast on her arm. When we see her hours later on the news there is a cast on her arm. Do you really think she robbed a medical facility to get that? How blind are you dude?

 

[Holly]

i hate white people

 

[Sloth7d]

It could be taken out of context, since the camera phone only shows her being arrested. However, I extremely doubt, with the Post-Columbine school and with the advancements of technology, that there isn't a security camera around that area, and if she was doing something she didn't say with her testamony, you would think the school would have released it.

Still, I really can't see any reason why she had to have her wrist broken for it. Hell, why did she have to pick it up in the first place? Surely there are janitors at that school?

No matter what really happen, it just doesn't look good for the rent-a-cop. Either he used too much force on a 16 year-old girl, or he became a f**king tyrant and seemingly broke her wrist for the hell of it.

That's exactly how I feel. Unless you twist the situation into the girl being this freaking mastermind who set this up, then there is no way this situation seems justified. No matter how you put it.

 

[Zoken]

When she was arrested she had no cast on her arm. When we see her hours later on the news there is a cast on her arm. Do you really think she robbed a medical facility to get that? How blind are you dude?

anyone can buy a cast and etc. at a medical supply shop. and how about spraining or twisting her wrist. Just because it's in a cast doesn't mean it's broken.

You make a good point about my "Japan" comment Addendum