God Bless America... Why?

[QueerMike]

The problem is, god is imaginary.

AMEN TO THAT!

 

[omid17]

My position is "America: Love it when its right and make it better when its wrong.

 

[psychocheeseman]

Raybia in reference to a suggestion that God might be imaginary

The problem is, you cannot prove it

Not to the extent that you wish. But on the balance of probablities Your God does not exist.

Although it is true that you cannot disprove God entirely, it is also just as true that you cannot disprove the existence of the Tooth Fairy, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or unicorns having ever existed.

The onus of proof is not on non believers to disprove but on believers to prove - Which is also impossible for one of two reasons -
Either;

1. God works in Mysterious ways; or
2. There is no God

I'm sorry if this seems rude. But if you saw people willing to fight wars over what they thought the tooth fairy was telling them, then heard them arrogantly announce that they must be right because you can't "disprove" the existence of the tooth fairy, you'd eventually get tired of being nice too.

 

[chaseter]

^That is the problem with all religions sadly, man's interferance. Most religions in their purest forms promote well being and fellowship. There is abosutely nothing wrong with religion and there is absolutely nothing wrong with no religion. But when both sides try to prove something, then it gets sticky. People will fight wars over everything and anything, that is the sad truth of it. Religion is not the cause of war, but greed is. Religion is just their excuse to justify their actions.

Theists cannot prove an existance just as atheists cannot disprove it. That is the simple truth and it will always be that way. People on both sides who try to push their beliefs cause problems.

 

[p.marlowe]

Religion actually gets in the way of Faith. People who have a true relationship with Jesus don't do the things that President Bush, or other warmongerers do.

The only path to true Peace is through Jesus Christ. That is all I have to say. Thank you...

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Did I say that? Did I say that No. Quit putting f-king words in people's mouths, but you are very good at it. You are very good at skewing statements to try and make your representation of your argument correct. I said that atheists have no right to force their lack of beliefs on others while still pointing out the flaws of Christians going door to door. What is the difference? There is none. A person on here constantly refutting a Christian is just as pathetic as a guy in a white shirt, black slacks, and a bike helmet handing out Bibles. People can believe whatever they want, I don't care. But as soon as you push your thoughts on others by trying to provide scientific data on either side, EITHER SIDE SO YOU DON'T F-KIN SKEW THIS, can never be done because it can never be proven or disproved. END OF STORY

what am I skewing exactly?
why didn't you make your awesome observation before when people mentioned god? regardless if you mentioned religious people or not, the post was aimed at atheists, and since it was responding to my posts I assume it was related to what sithgoblin mentioned.
which was a REACTION.
get it.
he gets to react to stimuli.
if I went into a thread and said " god doesn't exist" and people reacted to that, they are NOT creating turmoil are they?


puh-leese, you are entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine, whether you happen to like it or not.
do not say I did something like " skew " your post when I damned well did not.

 

[Addendum]

There is nothing in your link It is hypocritical to hate the country you live in when you are granted the right to leave...the unalienable right to freedom. I can understand someone b****ing under a dictatorship as they have no say in anything. But in a place like America, being antipatriotic is like telling your parents you don't want to live there anymore but you stay because of the shelter and food

No we aren't a perfect country, far from it, but burning flags, not singing the national anthem, not saluting the flag, etc...will not solve anything in a free country.

Here's the link

Saying someone is "anti-patriotic" or "anti-american" for not singing the national anthem, not wearing a flag lapel pin, not saluting the flag or other things is childish.

I would think actions such as serving in the military, being a public servant be it in the judicial system (as much as some lawyers deserve criticism) or even in the realm of politics (as much as some deserve criticism) are patriots. I would even say doctors and nurses, firefighters and police officers are patriots as well, since they heal us and care for us when we're sick or injured, rescue us when our home or workplace burn down, or get the criminals off the streets and take abusers out of the homes of their victims. Hell, I would even say that those who stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone when a majority don't see the wrong because they choose to ignore it, are also patriots, be they those who stood for the abolishment of slavery, the cause of women's suffrage, the civil rights movement in the south, even the various peace movements. I would also call "being a patriot" those who want to see our nation's environment kept clean and beautiful so future generations can enjoy them and feel compelled to spontaneously applaud upon seeing them.

Anyone can sing a song. Anyone can recite words. Anyone can wear a pin that costs about a dollar. Anyone can wave a flag. If those things means "being patriotic", then that's a damn pathetic definition of patriotism. A real patriot would prefer actions and deeds.

 

[Backdrifter]

Sure you can't 'prove' the existence of God. But, the mere fact that we exist in such a complex, and I am talking complex beyond understanding, universe more than suggests that there is a God.

If you really take the time to investigate things you will begin to see what I am talking about. Think about how insanely complex the cell is. Think about all the microscopic biological machines that your body has. Think about the amazing order of the universe that we see in numbers, mathematical formulas, chemical-based processes, and natural laws. Have you ever studied quantum physics? It's mind blowing.

Think about the absolute complexity inherent in cosmological, stellar, planetary, chemical and biological systems.

Think about the DNA code contained in and controlling the functions of all life on earth. Did you know that a complete 3 billion base genome would take 3 gigabytes of storage space? Yet this information is contained in a strand of proteins that can only be seen with an electron microscope. And all of this arose randomly and by accident?

Think about the separate human functions of brain and conscience (matter and mind). Why are you self aware? Why are you even able to comprehend why you are able to comprehend?

Think about the existence of love, emotion, altruism, and inherent moral/ethical values throughout the world. Is that all really just the result of unguided materialistic processes that have evolved a higher human consciousness?

Think about people of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, who claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?

Can you comprehend it all? Can you really even begin to understand just how complex you and the universe that you exist in is? And we are to believe that it all came from nothing by accident...and that we have to be as we...by accident? Is that more a leap of faith than believing in a higher power? I think it is.

At the core of it all the real question is...why does anything exist at all?

I believe the simple answer is love. We all want it. We all are desperately searching for it or what we think it might be. But, you will never find real love until you go to the source because God is love.

And what if you are wrong about there being no God? Have you really considered the outcome of that? Really consider that scenario for a second. It's rather frightening.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." - Matthew 7:7

So yes. May God bless America and all the peoples of this world.

 

[Addendum]

Why does the universe have to give us meaning?

 

[Carcharodon]

Sure you can't 'prove' the existence of God. But, the mere fact that we exist in such a complex, and I am talking complex beyond understanding, universe more than suggests that there is a God.

If you really take the time to investigate things you will begin to see what I am talking about. Think about how insanely complex the cell is. Think about all the microscopic biological machines that your body has. Think about the amazing order of the universe that we see in numbers, mathematical formulas, chemical-based processes, and natural laws. Have you ever studied quantum physics? It's mind blowing.

Think about the absolute complexity inherent in cosmological, stellar, planetary, chemical and biological systems.

Think about the DNA code contained in and controlling the functions of all life on earth. Did you know that a complete 3 billion base genome would take 3 gigabytes of storage space? Yet this information is contained in a strand of proteins that can only be seen with an electron microscope. And all of this arose randomly and by accident?

Think about the separate human functions of brain and conscience (matter and mind). Why are you self aware? Why are you even able to comprehend why you are able to comprehend?

Think about the existence of love, emotion, altruism, and inherent moral/ethical values throughout the world. Is that all really just the result of unguided materialistic processes that have evolved a higher human consciousness?

Think about people of every race, creed, color, and culture, both men and women, young and old, wise and foolish, from the educated to the ignorant, who claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?

Can you comprehend it all? Can you really even begin to understand just how complex you and the universe that you exist in is? And we are to believe that it all came from nothing by accident...and that we have to be as we...by accident? Is that more a leap of faith than believing in a higher power? I think it is.

At the core of it all the real question is...why does anything exist at all?

I believe the simple answer is love. We all want it. We all are desperately searching for it or what we think it might be. But, you will never find real love until you go to the source because God is love.

And what if you are wrong about there being no God? Have you really considered the outcome of that? Really consider that scenario for a second. It's rather frightening.

"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you." - Matthew 7:7

So yes. May God bless America and all the peoples of this world.

I'm pretty sure that's called the, "argument from ignorance." That is to say, "We don't understand it, so God must exist."

 

[Carcharodon]

I also love how off-topic this thread has become. Seems to be the M.O. of every thread that has anything remotely to do with religion, heh...it's always interesting to see where the thread makes the turn, and who triggers it.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

God is real. God isn't real. None of us are gonna know for sure until we're dead and then we can't tell anyone about it, anyway.

 

[Arc-Light]

Here's the link

Saying someone is "anti-patriotic" or "anti-american" for not singing the national anthem, not wearing a flag lapel pin, not saluting the flag or other things is childish.

I would think actions such as serving in the military, being a public servant be it in the judicial system (as much as some lawyers deserve criticism) or even in the realm of politics (as much as some deserve criticism) are patriots. I would even say doctors and nurses, firefighters and police officers are patriots as well, since they heal us and care for us when we're sick or injured, rescue us when our home or workplace burn down, or get the criminals off the streets and take abusers out of the homes of their victims. Hell, I would even say that those who stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone when a majority don't see the wrong because they choose to ignore it, are also patriots, be they those who stood for the abolishment of slavery, the cause of women's suffrage, the civil rights movement in the south, even the various peace movements. I would also call "being a patriot" those who want to see our nation's environment kept clean and beautiful so future generations can enjoy them and feel compelled to spontaneously applaud upon seeing them.

Anyone can sing a song. Anyone can recite words. Anyone can wear a pin that costs about a dollar. Anyone can wave a flag. If those things means "being patriotic", then that's a damn pathetic definition of patriotism. A real patriot would prefer actions and deeds.

Very well put.....

 

[Carcharodon]

God is real. God isn't real. None of us are gonna know for sure until we're dead and then we can't tell anyone about it, anyway.

Heh...

 

[Superhobo]

There's nothin "jingo" in it! t: You guys like to find opportunities to use cute little words like that!

It's prayer! Get over yourself.

You don't know what words mean.

"jin·go·ism Listen to the pronunciation of jingoism
Pronunciation:
\ˈjiŋ-(&#716gō-ˌi-zəm\
Function:
noun
Date:
1878

: extreme chauvinism or nationalism marked especially by a belligerent foreign policy."


Hahahaha.

 

[psychocheeseman]

Sure you can't 'prove' the existence of God. But, the mere fact that we exist in such a complex, and I am talking complex beyond understanding, universe more than suggests that there is a God.

Man, This isn't even an argument of "we don't understand so it must be supernatural" This is merely "i don't understand so it must be supernatural"

Although we don't have a clear picture of the very beginning of existence, we do have a pretty clear idea of almost everything that has happened since... and so far, none of it needs a supernatural explanation - so why should the beginning>? If anything it cheapens reality and offers a fairly unsatisfactory answer. Even if you do say it was a deity who created existence you really aren't solving the problem only making new questions such as "how did he/she/it do it? Who created this deity? And most importantly, How the F**k do you know since there weren't any ppl around at the time and your deity doesn't seem to offer any scientifically verifiable evidence of his existence? "

If you really take the time to investigate things you will begin to see what I am talking about. Think about how insanely complex the cell is. Think about all the microscopic biological machines that your body has. Think about the amazing order of the universe that we see in numbers, mathematical formulas, chemical-based processes, and natural laws. Have you ever studied quantum physics? It's mind blowing.

Oh, so you're a quantum physicist all of a sudden? I haven't studied Quantum physics - although i do remember one of my old lecturers who had, saying, "those who claim to understand quantum physics don't understand quantum physics".

But what I did study was a bit of biology, and yes you're right, Cells are amazing. Even more so considering there's a good chance that ribosome once existed outside of cells! Yes it is indeed incredible how single celled organisms, through nothing more that the process of natural selection has passed on evolutionary adaptive traits to create all the wondrous organisms on earth today. It truly is wondrous... Wait up... Weren't you supposed to be arguing FOR a deity? There's nothing supernatural about evolution. If there was it would be a total denial of free will!

Chemical based process work because of the natural laws of reality. One of which (gravity) had another now infamous explanation before Newton – That people were grounded to the earth by sin (which is why we didn’t fly off into the heavens like Jesus and (according to the Catholics) the Virgin Mary. I’m always very disappointed that so few Christians still believe this instead of gravity.

Think about the separate human functions of brain and conscience (matter and mind).

wait… Wtf? What separate functions? You show me one person who has consciousness without a brain? That’s friggin ridiculous!

Why are you self-aware? Why are you even able to comprehend why you are able to comprehend?
Think about the existence of love, emotion, altruism, and inherent moral/ethical values throughout the world. Is that all really just the result of unguided materialistic processes that have evolved a higher human consciousness?.

NOt unguided at all, merely the result of natural selection - sexual reproduction in particular. On the question of morals and intelligence. These are - strangely enough- results of evolution. As an example female Chimps, as well as humans, pick mates who display "social service" skills, noting such traits to be ideal to pass on to offspring. (Whether physically in DNA or in upbringing) Humans don't have a monoploy on such emotions as "love" many animals display such feelings, and will do irrational things to protect loved ones (just as humans do).

Think about people who claim to have personally experienced something of the supernatural. So what are we supposed to do with these accounts of divine healing, prophetic revelation, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena? Ignorance and imagination may have played a part to be sure, but is there something more?.

There is a strong theory that we may be genetically predisposed to beliefs in the supernatural. For the same reason that we are predisposed to be fearful of loud noises and surprises.- It increase our chance of survival. If there was so much supernatural activity going on as you claim. Wouldn't there be some hard evidence for it, somewhere?

Can you comprehend it all? Can you really even begin to understand just how complex you and the universe that you exist in is? And we are to believe that it all came from nothing by accident...and that we have to be as we...by accident? Is that more a leap of faith than believing in a higher power? I think it is.

So, we've established that the universe is complex. We have also established that there has, to this point, been no evidence of any supernatural intervention (because we already have a natural explanation which is scientifically verifiable) in getting to where we are. Why then, should the same argument that; "there is a god because things are how they are" Still hold any weight. All we can agree upon is that things are how they are. The difference is i can show how they got to how they are, and I can back up what I claim with scientifically verifiable evidence. Where as you claim things got here by supernatural means and can’t offer any evidence… Which takes more faith?

At the core of it all the real question is...why does anything exist at all?
I believe the simple answer is love. We all want it. We all are desperately searching for it or what we think it might be. But, you will never find real love until you go to the source because God is love..

Why does anything exist? I don’t know, some cosmic accident. To me it doesn’t matter, All that matters is that it does exist and we should enjoy it why we can.
God is love? Which God are you talking about Btw? I hope you’re not talking about the god of Abraham… cause I read the Old Testament when I was a kid, and he seems like a real jerk. Not very loving at all.

And what if you are wrong about there being no God? Have you really considered the outcome of that? Really consider that scenario for a second. It's rather frightening..

What if you’re wrong about some other deity that has been worshipped in the history of mankind? What if Thor’s up there in Heaven getting mighty pissed off at you for not sacrificing a chicken to him this week? What If the tooth fairy is annoyed you never wrote back to her for that nice letter she left under your pillow when you were a kid? Each deity has as much proof of it’s existence as the next – they can’t all be right… but they can all be wrong.

 

[Jerry!]

I honestly don't see how one religion can be believed over another. I just don't see how. Christianity has just as much if not more ridiculous stuff in it as every other religion. What makes ANY religion more right than all the others? Like I said before, hundreds maybe thousands of years from now (if people still inhabit Earth) they will be looking back at our beliefs and thinking how silly it is. Just like we do now with the religions and practices of people hundreds of years before our time. It seems to me no one stops and thinks about that for a second.

It's the same stuff, just recycled and repackaged. WE MADE IT UP. To serve one purpose or another, we made it all up. It's easily the longest running and most successful hoax of all time. It changes as our culture evolves and has a fail safe wherein it cannot ever be fully disproved because logic never comes into play in ANY of it. But it has to change somewhat as time goes on because as we learn more and discover more in the fields of science, biology,etc, it has to adapt, and it has and it will continue to. Ironically, it's much like evolution in that way.

But people buy into it because we've been taught and raised basically over the entirety of mankind's existence that there is some sort of higher power, a Creator, or there is something out there that we must worship or pray to or make sacrifices to or whatever religious practice you want to name, but we have to do those things and follow it's rules if we want to be in favor of that higher power. It's like breeding dogs to act or look a certain way. That's all it is. It's us being raised and taught to believe in a religion. A few black sheep, a few runts (ie: atheists) won't ruin the litter. I'm not singling out Christians or Christianity, this goes for all religion.

 

[sithgoblin]

The problem is, you cannot prove it

Hahaha, that argument got old years ago. We can't prove that Zeus, Thor, fairies, goblins, dragons, unicorns, werewolves and vampires don't exist either. But we all know they don't.

Not being able to prove that something doesn't exist isn't proof that it does exist.

What we can do though, is look at what god serves to explain: how and why we came to be here. Well, we already have a pretty good idea of that, based on observable evidence: the Big Bang, the natural formation of stars and planets, abiogenesis and evolution, in that order. All this has been observed, as in provably seen, to occur with no divine intervention. As for why? There is no why, it's a lucky accident. We are just another species of animal. Let that sink in. We are just another species of animal... albeit one that has evolved to a point where we are master over all other animals and our world. However, the fact that we have evolved to such a point, where we can question our own existence, is pretty amazing, and is a reason to live in and of itself.

So what's the point of god then? Seems pretty useless, yeah? Probably because he, along with his happy friends Zeus and Thor, doesn't exist.

 

[Angry Sentinel]

It's basically " I love America " reiterated.

If you go to Boston, Ma. there is an engraving on the side of a bridge that reads:

The best neighborhood this side of Heaven

I don't think that should be taken offensively or out of context and neither should " God Bless America" . You could be in Spain and say " God Bless Spain" (in espanol) .

Tell this to Rev. Jeremiah Wright. According to his detractors his remarks are simply racist, and he was attacking the country. When, if you look at his history and the totality of his sermons, while aggregious and emotional, he was simply attacking an unjust establishment.

Ironically these enemies are those who are already in positions of power to shape American laws, policies both domestic and foreign, economy, social culture, etc.

Which is probably another reason why people are lead to hear the comments referenced above as racist.

 

[psychocheeseman]

Going back to the purpose of this thread, why is it "god bless America"

Possibly because it incorporates many different belief systems/ religions into one ambiguous word "God" so everyone can say it regardless of which Mythical deity they believe in.

Or perhaps it's being used in the same sense that Einstein used the word god, as an all encompassing term for the universe and everything in it (although not meaning anything supernatural).

 

[Angry Sentinel]

lol, I was more on topic than the people discussing the existence of God.

 

[Hotwire]

When did this become the "God... Does He Exist Or Not?" thread? I started this thread to kind of point out that a lot of people use the phrase, "God bless America," yet never seem to say, "God bless another country as well." And yet, somehow it has become a discussion on the existance of God. And Slim isn't even involved in it!?!?

 

[Dr.Cox]

Someone has to bless America since the rest of the world doesn't like them

Just sayin.....

Happy posting

 

[Carcharodon]

Hahaha, that argument got old years ago. We can't prove that Zeus, Thor, fairies, goblins, dragons, unicorns, werewolves and vampires don't exist either. But we all know they don't.

How?

 

[DBella]

Another one of those PC bull****. Saying "God Bless America" doesn't mean "God, please bless ONLY America and screw the other countries on this planet".