Gotham: After Midnight...

[Kirk Langstrom]

From Newsarama...STEVE NILES ON GOTHAM AFTER MIDNIGHT, I

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by Steve Ekstrom

Last October, DC Comics announced the forthcoming release of Gotham After Midnight; a 12 issue maxi-series reuniting Steve Niles, creator of 30 Days of Night, with artist Kelley Jones, the artist of number of Niles’ creator-owned projects starring Cal MacDonald. Readers will recall Niles’ work with the Dark Knight from his work on Batman: Gotham County Line, and likewise, Jones is also no stranger to Batman either; his work with the character in the 90’s helped propel his popularity with a very unique, macabre vision of Gotham City’s protector.

Newsarama touched base with Niles again—in this two-part interview—to talk about the development of Gotham After Midnight (due to launch in May) since the announcement of the project; as well as, some of Niles’ thoughts on the mainstream comic book industry and his creative process.

Newsarama: Steve, is this your first really big assignment with one of the ‘Big 2’—I mean, you’ve done work for both Marvel and DC but nothing this high profile, right?

Steve Niles: Well, as far as characters—yeah. I’d done the Creeper which is a bit of a lower tier character; I also did Helmet of Fate which was just one issue—but I also started at DC doing Batman: Gotham County Line but that was a project that was definitely not for the whole family. County Line was kind of a weird version of Batman.

So, yeah, I guess this really is my first crack at a bigger, mass market comic book audience—well, unless you want to count that pretty big mass market I’ve hit with 30 Days of Night… (laugh)

NRAMA: (laugh) Fair enough.

SN: If I could get a fraction of those people to buy Gotham After Midnight—boy, I think I’d be a camper.

NRAMA: I think the industry as a whole would be very happy with you.

SN: I know—if only the mainstream movie audience would march down to the local comic shop and buy my stuff, you know? Well, it’d be nice—but you know, something is happening—because the 30 Days movie pushed our trade paperback sales past the 100,000 mark. You know, for a little independent book…

NRAMA: Yeah, no kidding—congratulations. Getting back to Gotham After Midnight, the last time we talked about your project it was still in the very early planning stages. It’s still a 12 issue maxi-series, correct? You also mentioned that each issue would be a singular, encapsulated story—with each issue featuring a different Batman villain—but there would be the structure of an over-arc to the entirety of the book. Would you care to elaborate on this more?

SN: Yes, a different villain per book—and you can probably figure that each two to three issues may even have a slight mini-arc to them with one overriding story over the entire 12 issues. I really want this to be the kind of Batman book that, if by some chance somebody who isn’t that familiar with the character in the comics wants to pick up a Batman comic, these folks could pick up issue #3 and get a story. And then, hopefully, they’ll want to go back and get #1 and 2 and then go back and get #4 when it comes out.

You know, when I was a little kid, I didn’t know comics came out every week—so, it was like whenever I could beg my parents to take me somewhere with a spinner rack. I’d usually grab one of those old giant-sized editions of Batman that I’d keep rolled up in my hand for the next two months and I’d read it over and over. Those old stories were so re-readable because there was so much going on in them!

NRAMA: You don’t think comics are as re-readable today?

SN: [pause] How do I put this without coming off wrong…I just feel like some of the current attitudes for writing comics are a little more geared towards the writing of something like a television show like Lost than actual comic books themselves. Lost, to me, is a soap opera—and in soap operas they stretch things out.

NRAMA: You mean the trend of decompression and storytelling…

SN: Exactly. You know like when soap operas can delay two people’s lips touching for a week.

NRAMA: Don’t you think a lot of that has to do with the necessity of trade paperback sales in large market venues? You know, so people can buy a whole story arc? There is a re-emerging trend with single issue stories—look at Jonah Hex and recently in Loveless by Brian Azzarello—I’m sure I could think of others…

SN: Exactly.

NRAMA: Do you think that companies like DC and Marvel would retain more casual readers of comics if the stories…well, to pin it to a common fan complaint, weren’t decompressed?

SN: Yeah, like I said, I just think the trend of long, slow stories doesn’t interest me. I think shorter stories leads to more enjoyment per comic book—when you look at a story that is part three of twelve—you are getting less of an issue of the comic book. And I’ve had editors call me and say, “Are you sure you want to do this? We could spread this out over a couple of issues…” and I’d much rather just pack this thing and really not stretch the reader out. If I can give readers something that doesn’t stretch a short story out—something with some real substance—in a twelve issue series, I’m going to be really happy.

I want to write the kind of Batman comic that is, in its own way, a complete experience.

NRAMA: Does Gotham After Midnight fall into regular continuity with Batman RIP and Final Crisis on the horizon?

SN: Absolutely not. This is Batman, Commissioner Gordon, Bruce Wayne, and some new characters I’m inventing—there’s no Robin and there is no connection to what is currently going on in the DC Universe.

NRAMA: Yeah, you were unsure if the Bat-family was going to be involved with this project when we first spoke last October. Now it’s definite—no Robin, no Nightwing—no extenuating buddies or sidekicks.

SN: None—I mean, in this world, they may exist but I’ve never been a big fan of the whole Robin thing. It’s always presented this huge problem for me—you know, the whole adult putting a child into a dangerous situation; plus, I think it takes away from what I’m really interested in exploring: the psychology of Batman as an obsessed lone crime fighting human.

NRAMA: I think you referred to him as a ‘sociopath’ before…

SN: Well, yeah! You know though, I think when people hear the word ‘sociopath’ I think they hear ‘crazy’. My Batman is still pretty smart—and a detective first and foremost. He’s a crime fighter—I think the ‘sociopath’ is for someone else to decide.

This is a very heroic Batman—but there is his fascination with death—I mean, we all deal with death somehow but none of us dress up in this costume to avenge our parents deaths each and every night. There is always this moment of his origin that is always hanging in the air around him and I’d really like to try and focus past that really get into his mind as a detective. You know—how does he keep up with things; how does he run Gotham City?

One of the ways we’re going to have help in telling this portion of Batman’s story is by introducing a new villain; who, in a very strange way, personifies the exact same things Batman does. It’s a Kelley Jones villain and we’re very excited.

NRAMA: Can you tell readers anything about this new villain?

SN: We’re keeping a pretty tight lid on this character right now.

I can say that I am having more fun on this book than I have ever had—I think me and Kelley Jones talked on the phone for three hours…talking Batman! We’re both looking at this project as a chance that may not come around again; so, we want to make sure we get everything in there.

Me, Kelley and Mike Siglain—I think we’re the tightest team I’ve ever worked on.

NRAMA: How does your process work between Kelley and Mike? Is there a method to “team madness”?

SN: Well, I typically write an initial pitch for a story—unfortunately, my methods usually drive editors crazy; meaning, I have notes for my pitches everywhere. I have post-it notes and little pieces of paper detailing what I want to do on a project scattered everywhere.

NRAMA: Sounds messy…

SN: But I know where everything is! I just can’t keep a journal like you see some guys doing—where they write all their ideas down. Have you ever seen Guillermo del Toro’s journal? It looks like the Book of the Dead or something. Meanwhile, all my notes are misspelled post-it notes all over my desk. It’s a little chaotic but I talk to Mike [Siglain] a lot and we’ve got this flow chart where he keeps track of all the good ideas we want to work with. That way, when I sit down to do a single issue of script I’ve got this chart in front of me with all these concepts and ideas and usually I take about half of them and I write fresh. I start from scratch—I write very detailed scripts and we go over them. It usually takes a few hours; Kelley and Mike will send back very detailed notes on everything—we all want to agree on what we are doing.

It’s like this morning—I woke up to the arrival of this big packet of the first inked pages and just seeing them got me so charged up! When I looked at them—they inspired me for some ideas for issue #4 so I called Mike and let him know about the ideas and he put them in the chart…it’s so great, I’ve never worked like this before.

Usually, I just get so wrapped up in how excited I am about doing a project that I’ll forget bits of ideas or what it is that I’m doing exactly—and Mike Siglain is easily the best editor I’ve ever had.

NRAMA: So it’s very different having a strong editorial presence on a project as opposed to something a little less on your creator-owned projects?

SN: Yes, he helps me stay organized, definitely. He’s like Joey Cavalieri—who is my favorite editor also—I don’t think his heart speeds up. I swear! He handles everything so calmly. Even for Mike though—this is like a dream project for him—as well as me. I mean we’re doing a Batman book with Kelley Jones! Kelley made such an impact on this character in the 80’s and 90’s.

And readers will see—this is not the same Batman Kelley drew before (laughs)…you’ll see.

NRAMA: I’m going back to some quotes about Gotham After Dark—before you were emphatic in your statement that this project won’t be a “spook book”. Can you still make that claim?

SN: Absolutely—but you have to consider this: Gotham is a spooky city. Batman is a spooky character to a degree. In a way, there is unavoidable spookiness—um, hello? Kelley Jones!

What I’m not doing—like in Gotham County Line—I’m not putting Batman up against spooky creatures and environments. Gotham After Midnight is not “Batman in a horror story”—although, Axeman does make an appearance.

NRAMA: How different is Gotham City once the sun goes down?

SN: Very different—as a matter of fact, the first issue has this wonderful sequence where the sun is setting and all these people in this certain area of Gotham basically close up their shades and lock their doors because they know that all the undesirables start crawling out of the shadows—hell, I can think of a few areas of L.A. where that happens. So, there is this touch of realism to it—but it’s almost more of a gothic feel to it that I just love.

 

[Watson]

http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=296909

Cool find though

 

[Cain]

Great post thanks Cap. I know there are a lot of Kelley Jones haters here but I loved his Batman work and am excited that he will try something different then expected here. I also like Niles I think Gotham County Line was classic really enjoyed his Creeper mini from last year and found the original 30 Days of Night a very entertaining read.

I also completely agree with his take on arcs vs. stand alone stories that's a big reason I've dumped a lot of comics lately. You get tired of stuff being stretched out for far too long whatever happened to good ol self contained stories? I wish more comic writers practiced that philosophy. But it is a business of course and trades are very profitable so of course editors will keep demanding that approach.

His explanation on the psychological aspect of Batman he's looking to explore here is very intriguing and I like that in terms of capes it will only be Batman that's running around the series. Can't wait.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Great post thanks Cap. I know there are a lot of Kelley Jones haters here but I loved his Batman work and am excited that he will try something different then expected here. I also like Niles I think Gotham County Line was classic really enjoyed his Creeper mini from last year and found the original 30 Days of Night a very entertaining read.

I also completely agree with his take on arcs vs. stand alone stories that's a big reason I've dumped a lot of comics lately. You get tired of stuff being stretched out for far too long whatever happened to good ol self contained stories? I wish more comic writers practiced that philosophy. But it is a business of course and trades are very profitable so of course editors will keep demanding that approach.

Agreed. I dropped Ultimate Spider-Man years ago because i got worn out reading six issue storylines that really could have been told in HALF that many issues...

Im also a big Kelly Jones fan, so im really looking forward to this. Sounds like the perfect storyline for his style of artwork...

 

[Mladen]

Agreed. I dropped Ultimate Spider-Man years ago because i got worn out reading six issue storylines that really could have been told in HALF that many issues...

thats interesting because I remember speaking to some friends who work at my lcs, and they said that marvel trades don't sell well at all... which means the trend of long arcs is less to do with trade sales and more to do with what singles buyers seem to react positively to (at least for marvel).

 

[Joker]

As I said in the other thread, I love Niles, but I avoid that no-talent hack Jones like I would the plauge...or Liefield.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

As I said in the other thread, I love Niles, but I avoid that no-talent hack Jones like I would the plauge...or Liefield.

"no-talent hack"??? You must be thinking of someone else. Look at the detail on this cover. Each Skull around the perimeter has a different expression..

Sometimes, less is more. The lack of background here directs the focus on all three characters. Note the excellent use of shadowing (Croc)...

I'd prefer this "no-talent hack" over quite a few of the "superstar artists" and their sloppy work ethics we have running around THESE days...

 

[Joker]

Yeah, he can draw skulls...so can most goth teenagers. He has no sense of anatomy, cant draw faces to save his life, and his art is really just hideious. I really dont see any difference from him and Liefeld, other than Jones doesnt appear to blatently steal from others as Rob does.

 

[The Guard]

Are you serious?

Obviously the way Kelley Jones portrays anatomy is a CHOICE for him, part of his artistic style. Is it the most realistic? No, but to discount him as an artist based on that...

 

[Cain]

Also nevermind the fact that Niles said in this interview to not expec Jones to stick to his old Batman style as he's trying something different this time around. Not that I would mind if he stuck to his ways from the Doug Moench days but it's right there in the interview cap posted.

 

[Batman]

Jones isn't my cup'o tea. I understand the style and approach he takes to the Batman character, and it's great for what it is, but it's honestly just not my preference. Steve Niles' writing, however, brings me a little hope that the storyline will be more lent to Jones' artwork.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Are you serious?

Obviously the way Kelley Jones portrays anatomy is a CHOICE for him, part of his artistic style. Is it the most realistic? No, but to discount him as an artist based on that...

Exactly. I remember an interview with him saying he draws Batman in the way a terrified criminal would see him; Dark, billowy cape, large ears and claws...a creature of the night, if you will...

Anyway, it worked for ME.

 

[Joker]

Ok, so that's why he draws batman that way. What's his excuse for every other character?

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Ok, so that's why he draws batman that way. What's his excuse for every other character?

He's going for the "Nightmarish Quality", iirc.

 

[Joker]

You know, I just dont think "nightmare" when I see Robin, Alfred, Catwoman, various children...But hey, maybe I'm the weird one with that, and mr. "I'm going to draw Batman so he has about 500 biceps" is right.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Im not sure what you mean, but; ok.

I dont think it's a question of "right or wrong", just personal opinion...

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Part II finally up:

STEVE NILES ON GOTHAM AFTER MIDNIGHT, II

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by Steve Ekstrom

Today, Newsarama presents the second part of a two-part interview with Steve Niles about the upcoming Gotham After Midnight maxi-series with acclaimed Batman artist Kelley Jones. Click here for part one.

Newsarama: Okay, well, let’s talk about your take on Bruce Wayne versus the Batman persona; you’ve said, “He has an estranged relationship with himself,”—what do you mean?

Steve Niles: Exactly. These two personas are fighting for time as each other and Bruce Wayne is losing that battle big time. Batman takes up most of the time between the two of them. In the way that I want to explore it—they have to live as different human beings to cover their tracks—but not only that…they’re both trying to stay sane. I really think they don’t know it at all. I think they’d get mad if you pointed it out…but yeah, they are battling for time.

NRAMA: You had said something along the lines of, “[readers] won’t see Bruce Wayne as Batman or Batman as Bruce Wayne” or the character changing into one or the other—that they are separate entities almost.

SN: Well, I’ll tell you—I’ve eased off of that just a little bit. What’s really interesting is that in pursuing his relationship with Alfred, I’ve come to realize that Alfred is the bridge between Bruce Wayne and Batman. When Alfred is there—he’s kind of a father figure, you know? In an odd sort of way, he’s the closest thing to family. That’s most likely when he’s going to pull his mask back—when he’s working at the computer and Alfred is there behind him. There will be little subtle things like that I want to try to play with.

I’m glad you remembered that actually—that’s a perfect example of how I tend to work/ fly by the seat of my pants—and I was sounded pretty definitive when I said that apparently but I have come to the realization that Alfred started becoming a necessary part of the story and that Batman and Bruce Wayne need Alfred present to complete the relay, you know?

I just can’t help but see Bruce Wayne and Batman as two separate creatures. I really want people to gain insight to the act that Wayne has to put on for people.

NRAMA: So, does that mean there will be a dual storyline—that there is something going on with Bruce Wayne and something going on with Batman?

SN: In the way that I say, “Batman dominates,” but yes—there is a plotline where Bruce Wayne is involved. It’s kind of hard for him to not be involved.

NRAMA: It’s interesting to see how you’ve changed direction since our first discussion of Gotham After Midnight…

SN: I hadn’t even written the first issue! (laugh)

NRAMA: Right; and now, it’s April and there’s been some creative evolution to the project and even the way you’re processing this work—are there any ideas that have been further shuffled around beyond what we’ve just discussed? Ideas you were adamant on or that weren’t set in stone but you just had to get into play?

SN: Well, the thing is this: me and Kelley—we talk about Batman…all the time. One of those things was the whole ‘sociopath’ angle; we’ve tried to decide, “how violent is Batman?”—because we know that Frank Miller’s Batman really kind of breaks some boundaries…

There have been a lot of things discussed lately; a couple of things that were really surprising—if I told you what was discussed it would ruin Gotham By Night for you—so I’m going to stop while I’m ahead.

NRAMA: Fair enough.

SN: I just really want people to know how thoughtful we’re being about this project. If I had to pick a hero that I would get behind for the rest of my life—it’d be Batman.

NRAMA: Wow, that’s quite a commitment!

SN: Well, I’m just saying—if I had to choose, you know? At one point, I would’ve said the Hulk—because the Hulk has that duality like Batman. I just can’t see myself writing Captain America or Superman—Superman gives me a great bit of difficulty…but I get Batman. I understand why he exists. I love that fact that he’s human and that everything about the guy is intentional.

NRAMA: Speaking of the Hulk—did you ever hear back about your offer to Marvel to write the Hulk for free for a year?

SN: Nope. (laugh) It’s okay—maybe one day—who knows. It’s like I look back now and I see how much I’ve benefited from Marvel and/ or other companies not hiring me—when I wanted to be hired by them so badly, you know? I own like 15 or 16 creator-owned properties now and I have these folks to thank for that.

When I started out I was like anybody else who wants to work at one of the big companies—and I really wanted to work for Marvel—to write the Hulk, to do the monsters…that sort of thing. And, well, it just didn’t happen—and, in the end, it worked out in my favor.

Really, the way DC has approached me has been so great. I didn’t even realize it but the reason Dan Didio even contacted me in the first place was because he was a fan of my prose novels—my Cal McDonald stuff. I love that! I would have never had thought to send my prose to DC Comics to get work but Dan read them on his own—and that’s how I got Batman: Gotham County Line and I met Joey Caliveri and the rest is history.

I really feel like DC has been so good to me in letting me be myself with these projects. I mean, I was almost tarred and feathered for giving Batman a jetpack…

NRAMA: Yeah, I was just thinking—the Bat-jetpack has always seemed to haunt you personally. (laugh)

SN: Right—but they let me do it! Don’t worry—next time I’ll put a little Bat-sticker on that bad boy and everyone will be happy!

Jim Lee gave me some great advice—he came up to me and said, “I saw how much of a hard time you were having with the press over [the jetpack],” so he says, “If you would’ve put a Bat-logo on that…no one would’ve said a word.” And I was like, “You’re right!” Lesson learned—wait until you see Gotham After Midnight, Kelley is putting logos on everything.

NRAMA: So there is going to be a lot more Bat-tech?

SN: A lot—it’s a big part of the character to me. I mean, looking back, the tech was made to be so silly by the 60’s television show—all the gadgetry—but I really like how it’s all kind of come back in such a serious way in Batman Begins.

Instead of say, “Oh [Batman] has all of this wonderful poise,” it’s more like—no, he needs these things to get an edge against the criminal element.

NRAMA: And he’s field-testing tech for his company at the same time…

SN: Exactly! The jetpack! Sure, he’s going to build a hang glider—I think he’d try stuff like a jetpack too. Wait ‘till you see this Kelley’s version of the Bat-cave, the way I’ve scripted it—there’re two Bat-mobiles! One is being driven and the other is up and being worked on—and it looks completely different than the one he’s driving. And there’s a Bat-bike and he’s always tinkering or working on these things. This is a lifetime endeavor that Batman has taken on—it’s more than a hobby; it’s more than his life—it’s his obsession.

NRAMA: Seems that you are just as committed as Batman at this point.

SN: Yes, I think so! (laugh)

I’m having a blast—I just saw pages this morning. So seeing the pages, seeing what Kelley is doing—has put just the biggest smile on my face. And now, I’m off to turn in another script. I couldn’t be happier

 

[Nepenthes]

I really enjoyed Deadmans lines in Gotham County Line, as well as the general weirdness of the whole thing. Batman flying in a jetpack to the quiet suburbs, hard arse local cops, zombie Jason crackin skulls and making jokes, meeting his dead parents, being all stubborn to Deadman, etc. Great stuff.