Ha! I Just Noticed Something!

[Spider-Fan83]

But they didn't pick MJ because of that, and we both know it.

I was never talking about, "we", or why it actually happen
I was talking about, assumptions the people of that world might make in that situation

just saying

its a comic book movie things that are sometimes beyond reason for us, like easily being able to ID a super hero based on who the villain kidnaps, or who seem to never be around at the same time, or who look exactly him them only wear glasses, sometimes need to be ignored, for the big picture

 

[FNSpidey]

Does anyone undstand what the heck he's saying? If you do please explain.

I knew that wouldn't be clear. You mentioned the Sandman-Venom incident as the third situation in which MJ was saved and could be identified from. Immediately afterwards, you describe how the newscaster just mentioned her name, seemingly not recognizing her. I was just pointing out that the Sandman-Venom incident couldn't possibly have any effect on what the newscaster is saying, since that is the very incident he is reporting!

If he goes on to be saved by Spider-Man three more times in a big public spectacle, yes.

I said MJ was probably not identified in Times Square, since she was just one of the people saved by Spider-man there. That she was later involved in other incidents is of no consequence to her being identified there.

We heard them say Mary Jane Watson, which at that point had pretty much become synonymous with "Spider-Man save me from these supervillians!" And you have to assume alot to come to that conclusion

What conclusion? That MJ could indeed have been identified and we just didn't see the newscaster mentioning it? Not that big of a leap of faith.

How does Eddie know that MJ and Peter are dating? And how does he find her? There are a million plot holes. And if he didn't know they were dating the entire end scene would have been different. It's obvious they originally had Gwen in the end and not MJ. They just threw her in at the last minute.

Again, who someone is dating is no big secret. The guy works at the Bugle! I'm sure some people there know about them dating, it's only logical. And finding her is not a problem, she's not exactly hiding.

Then why did Eddie say "You made me loose my girl." And why would Eddie think they are still dating when she broke up with Peter before he got ride of the suit? The symbiote wouldn't think they are dating. None of your answers make sense.

What does it matter if they broke up? Does Peter automatically stop caring for her? Particularly when he was so crushed when she broke up with him? If anything, it's your suggestions that are illogical. And you could try to be a little more polite.


Anyway, for the sake of argument, let's suppose that MJ has been recognized in ALL cases. How is that a plot-hole? First time, she was dating Harry (not that anyone would know that). Second time, she was getting married to John Jameson. Only now she's with Peter and that's not known to the public. So, where is the plot-hole? Would people search every single person that cares for her, in case he's Spider-man? Even then, they'd probably suspect John Jameson. He's athletic, kind of a hero already and he had the most serious relationship with her. No plot-holes there. Maybe an omission, but no plot-holes.

 

[The Joker]

I was never talking about, "we", or why it actually happen
I was talking about, assumptions the people of that world might make in that situation

Why would people think she was chosen as a hostage because she's pretty? I mean that is just the height of ridiculousness.

its a comic book movie things that are sometimes beyond reason for us, like easily being able to ID a super hero based on who the villain kidnaps, or who seem to never be around at the same time, or who look exactly him them only wear glasses, sometimes need to be ignored, for the big picture

I don't entirely disagree with you. I've always thought Superman's identity being hidden by a pair of glasses was ludicrous. But some people don't like to overlook some glaring flaws.

Not only that, but MJ being abducted three times in a row by the villain in the climax battle lacks imagination, and is extremely repetitive. At least in SM-2 it served a purpose for her learning Peter's secret identity. I love that conversation they have on the web afterwards.

First time, she was dating Harry (not that anyone would know that).

I don't know, she was there as his date at the World Unity festival where she was supposed to meet Norman. "MJ, why didn't you wear the black dress? I just want to impress my father, he loves black".

Harry could have been introducing her to people as his gf.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

I really can't believe this thread. Are we seriously bashing tese movies for this reason? Really?

I mean surely when Peter Parker is the only guy who can get pictures of Spidey, they should put together who he is as well.

And BTW when people say that it's lazt writing again to have MJ in peril that's total BS.Neither every Superhero movie has a scene with the girlfriend in peril. Batman, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Batman Forever, Superman, Superman II, Superman Returns Off the top of my head the only movie of the top of my head that didn't have it was Batman and robin and f-beans did it work well there.

 

[The Joker]

I mean surely when Peter Parker is the only guy who can get pictures of Spidey, they should put together who he is as well.

I'd agree with that, if Eddie Brock had not so easily just walked up to Spider-Man and started taking pictures of him.

And BTW when people say that it's lazt writing again to have MJ in peril that's total BS.Neither every Superhero movie has a scene with the girlfriend in peril. Batman, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Batman Forever, Superman, Superman II, Superman Returns Off the top of my head the only movie of the top of my head that didn't have it was Batman and robin and f-beans did it work well there.

The glaring difference here is that all of those movies did not have the same girl in peril in the climax showdown in three movies in a row.

At least in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, Rachel Dawes is a D.A. fighting the mob in a city full of corruption, so she's bound to be a target. Lois Lane is a reporter always investigating crime and deliberately going into dangerous situations to get the story.

 

[Jack O Lantern]

I'd agree with that, if Eddie Brock had not so easily just walked up to Spider-Man and started taking pictures of him.

Yeah when he's standing still or in plain view of everybody. He doesn't get the shots of Spidet fighting the Sandman,or Doc Ock. In fights that nobody else on the planet even know about. I mean there is a massive difference in getting a shot of Spidey standing in a massive crowd compared to a shot of him in an secert lab.

The glaring difference here is that all of those movies did not have the same girl in peril in the climax showdown in three movies in a row.

At least in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, Rachel Dawes is a D.A. fighting the mob in a city full of corruption, so she's bound to be a target. Lois Lane is a reporter always investigating crime and deliberately going into dangerous situations to get the story.

Yeah, i guess it would be kind of being the girlfriend of amillionaires son, but not just any son of a millionaire but the one who's top secret flight suit and glider was stolen

Or the girlfriend of the son of a major newspaper publisher.

No, no it must of been because of the science geek she WASN'T dating at the time of any of the abductions

 

[The Joker]

Yeah when he's standing still or in plain view of everybody. He doesn't get the shots of Spidet fighting the Sandman,or Doc Ock.

Neither did Peter. He never gave Jameson any pics of him fighting any super villains. Just every day thugs. Name me one battle where he set up a camera when fighting Ock, Goblin, Sandman, or Venom.

Brock was snapping pics of the Crane accident rescue, and Jameson liked them more than Peter's.

Yeah, i guess it would be kind of being the girlfriend of amillionaires son, but not just any son of a millionaire but the one who's top secret flight suit and glider was stolen

Yes, that makes a ton of sense. Why kidnap the millionaire son's girlfriend, and not the son himself? Surely family is worth more to the millionaire than some girl his son's been dating for five minutes.

Or the girlfriend of the son of a major newspaper publisher.

As opposed to abducting John himself, who is more recognisable than MJ. And worth more to Jonah Jameson, too.

No, no it must of been because of the science geek she WASN'T dating at the time of any of the abductions

And that's your plot hole. None of her abductions makes sense unless......*drum roll*....she's somehow affiliated personally with Spider-Man

 

[DACMAN]

I really can't believe this thread. Are we seriously bashing tese movies for this reason? Really?

I mean surely when Peter Parker is the only guy who can get pictures of Spidey, they should put together who he is as well.

And BTW when people say that it's lazt writing again to have MJ in peril that's total BS.Neither every Superhero movie has a scene with the girlfriend in peril. Batman, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Batman Forever, Superman, Superman II, Superman Returns Off the top of my head the only movie of the top of my head that didn't have it was Batman and robin and f-beans did it work well there.

Right. It's done in almost EVERY superhero movie. It's lazy and repetitive.

 

[DACMAN]

And you could try to be a little more polite.

You're right. My bad. You've been pretty polite this entire time. I apologize.

 

[DACMAN]

I really can't believe this thread. Are we seriously bashing tese movies for this reason? Really?

Did you even read the first post?

My three favorite movies in the world are Pearl Harbor, The Terminator movies, and the Spider-Man films. I LOVE these movies. I just find it funny that the same woman continues to get kidnapped by supervillians in an uberbig super hero/villian fight and no one is like "why does this young lady keep getting kidnapped?" I'm not even saying people should go "HEY! SHE MUST BE SPIDER-MANS' LADY!" But they should go "Isn't that the same girl the Green Goblin, and Doc Ock kidnapped? And now Venom and the Sandman have her...

 

[Jack O Lantern]

Neither did Peter. He never gave Jameson any pics of him fighting any super villains. Just every day thugs. Name me one battle where he set up a camera when fighting Ock, Goblin, Sandman, or Venom.

We didn't see him take a piss either, guess he has a strong bladder.

Brock was snapping pics of the Crane accident rescue, and Jameson liked them more than Peter's.

Something anybody could do, but Peter got shots that nobody could get. "How'd you get that high?" "oh,um, ah, flag pole?"

Yes, that makes a ton of sense. Why kidnap the millionaire son's girlfriend, and not the son himself? Surely family is worth more to the millionaire than some girl his son's been dating for five minutes.



As opposed to abducting John himself, who is more recognisable than MJ. And worth more to Jonah Jameson, too.

Maybe because it's a lot easier to kidnap a cute red head than a man under protection, because as we see in Spidey 2, Harry has handlers, or NASA Officers. I don't know. But that if I took a step back a looked at it from a view point where I didn't know anything about Spidey or MJ I would think that they are more logical than some science geek is Spider-Man. I mean it would even make more sense to say that Doc ock kidnapped her because of her toes to harry, than her ties to peter parker.

And that's your plot hole. None of her abductions makes sense unless......*drum roll*....she's somehow affiliated personally with Spider-Man

Well in Spidey 2 her abduction didn't actually have to do with Spidey, it had to do with Peter, didn't it?

And that's not even a plot hole, why would it matter if the public think she has a relationship with Spidey? People are arguing that people should know that Peter Parker = Spider-Man because of this

 

[The Joker]

We didn't see him take a piss either, guess he has a strong bladder.

Hilarious. But you still haven't disproven my point. All of the super villain battles were not documented on pictures by Peter at all. Not one Bugle headline was shown with an actual villain pic in it. We never once saw Peter hand in a pic of any of them. Or set up his camera, or collect his camera after a battle with them. I think that's a rather more significant thing than seeing him taking a piss

The 'Doc Ock still at large' headline had an artist's conception of him in hospital skivvies.

Something anybody could do

And anyone could snap a pic of him stopping a mugging or swinging in the air. If the people on the street have enough time to spot him and give him a round of applause as he swings by, then they can snap a picture.

One other thing that occurred to me, does anyone beyond Peter's immediate friends, and Jameson, Robbie, and Betty know that all the Spidey photos come exclusively from Peter? I mean Norman didn't know, which was why he went to Jonah and asked him who was Spidey's photographer. Jonah covered for Peter by saying they get the photos from the photographer in the mail, and he has no idea who he is.
Harry had to tell Doc Ock that he could get to Spider-Man thru Peter, because Peter took Spider-Man's pictures for the Bugle. So, I got the impression it wasn't common knowledge that Peter was Spidey's personal photographer.

Maybe because it's a lot easier to kidnap a cute red head than a man under protection, because as we see in Spidey 2, Harry has handlers, or NASA Officers.

Handlers? Where were they when he was in school in SM-1? Where was his handlers in SM-2 when he was at Peter's Birthday party? Where were they when Ock paid him a visit at his penthouse? Surely his house would be well guarded if he had handlers. Where were they at the Spider-Man day festival? Where were they when he and Peter fought in the penthouse etc etc etc?

As for John, what scenes showed his NASA officers? He was never surrounded by bodyguards, either.

And even if Harry or John had had bodyguards, you seriously think they could stop Green Goblin or Doc Ock or Sandman etc? Come on man, lets be sensible here.

I don't know. But that if I took a step back a looked at it from a view point where I didn't know anything about Spidey or MJ I would think that they are more logical than some science geek is Spider-Man.

Very possibly. But we're not saying that people should specifically think Spidey is Peter. We're saying people should be looking at MJ herself, and those she's close with. Because you'd have to be deaf, dumb, and blind not to piece the connection together by SM-3.

Out of the millions of people in the big apple, MJ is used every time by these super villains to get Spidey.

I mean it would even make more sense to say that Doc ock kidnapped her because of her toes to harry, than her ties to peter parker.

Not at all. Doc Ock waited until Peter was with her before he accosted him. Why didn't he just go and get Peter at his apartment like he went to get Harry?

And Ock thought MJ was Peter's girlfriend. "Peter Parker.....and the girlfriend".

Well in Spidey 2 her abduction didn't actually have to do with Spidey, it had to do with Peter, didn't it?

Yes, it did. But MJ was well known as John Jameson's fiancee at that time. People would be wondering why Ock took her specifically. If it was about Peter, people would think why didn't Ock take his old Aunt, or someone family related? But Ock assumed MJ was Peter's gf. But nobody else knows that. Ock probably assumed it because he had been watching them holding hands and being all close and cosy.

And that's not even a plot hole, why would it matter if the public think she has a relationship with Spidey? People are arguing that people should know that Peter Parker = Spider-Man because of this

No, I'm not. Neither is DACMAN. Read his first post. We're arguing that people should be suspicous of her, and the people she's close with, because she's always being used as bait for Spider-Man.

Why her specifically every time? Yet nobody has made that connection. IN SM-3 she was "The hostage is Mary Jane Watson. An actress recently seen in a brief stint on broadway".

 

[Spider-Fan83]

the thing is, she and peter really only recently in between 2 and 3 started to actually date
if someone, made the connection that she was kidnapped all three time cause, she was personally involved with whoever spider-man really is..

its not like he would be the only name on that list, if they were to look into her past to figure out he might be...
there’s Flash, Harry, John Jameson...

so, which of these guys, would suspect of being a superhero
[URL="http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9676/image2fw1.jpg[/IMG][/URL]"][URL=http://imageshack.us][/URL][/URL]
and those are only the guys we know of...

 

[The Joker]

That's what we're saying, Spider-Fan83. Nobody said everyone should be specifically looking at Peter as the obvious suspect. But rather at MJ herself, and the people she's close to in her life. They'd have to know she has some kind of personal connection to Spider-Man herself.

If you read DACMAN's first post, his complaint is that in SM-3, nobody connects MJ with being kidnapped twice before by super villains in order to get Spider-Man.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

while, then that’s simple, she wasn't identified, at the other kidnappings
(except, maybe by the police (official witness, stuff, and what not)

but, I don't see how the news caster would of known, to commit
the police (if they know) wouldn't necessarily released that to the local news
(it was a quickly put togather, live news cast, as the events were happening, they didn't have alot of time to reaseach that much into it)

she was only mentioned by name, because, someone recognized her from her Broadway thing, this time

 

[FNSpidey]

You're right. My bad. You've been pretty polite this entire time. I apologize.

Think nothing of it. And kudos for being so civil about it. Not many people in internet forums have this decency.

 

[The Joker]

while, then that’s simple, she wasn't identified, at the other kidnappings
(except, maybe by the police (official witness, stuff, and what not)

And you really think some, if not all of those witnesses wouldn't have talked to the media about the extraordinary events they witnessed?

The yahoos on the bridge, on the boat, the people in the cafe and on the streets outside the cafe etc. Of course they would. This is New York.

but, I don't see how the news caster would of known, to commit
the police (if they know) wouldn't necessarily released that to the local news
(it was a quickly put togather, live news cast, as the events were happening, they didn't have alot of time to reaseach that much into it)

Her kidnapping was three major public events. She wasn't abducted on the quiet by some goons with guns. She was taken in front of dozens of people by a super villain. Three times.

You don't have to be Perry Mason to find out who the hostage was.

 

[thejon93]

Ok. I might be the biggest Spider-Man fan ever. Seriously. Don't believe me? I watch the movie (all three) at least once a month. Well I was watching them again and something just occured to me.

Mary Jane was saved by Spider-Man when she fell at Time Square which was witnessed by hundreds of people (if not thousands or even millions on TV). She was then later saved by Spider-Man at the bridge which was witnessed by hundreds of people.

She was then saved by Spider-Man in Spider-Man 2 at the end from Doc Ock which is known to many people from the police to the Bugle staff. So it's safe to assume the Bugle (if not many others) had an article on the fact MJ was saved by Spider-Man.

And she was saved once more in front of millions of people since it was all over the news that she had been captured by the Sandman and Venom.

But during the broadcast they simply say "The hostage has been identified as Mary Jane Watson. An actress recently seen on a brief stint on Broadway." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNxjYWisY3A

Shouldn't they have said "The hostage has been identified as Mary Jane Watson! The same young woman that Spider-Man saved during the attack by the Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus! We are unsure why this young lady seems to attract danger, but our prayers are with her now." Or something.

She's been a public "save me" girl for Spider-Man three times now and they don't make the connection? Really?

Just a thought.

Haha, good catcht:

Anyhow, I noticed something after watching 'Spider-Man 3', when Symbiote-Suited Spider-Man rips out that large pipe and drowns Sandman. Spider-Man web-swings past the screen while Sandman is being washed away, cu back to Sandman who is turning to mud, and Spidey's back on the pipe. WTF?!

 

[Spider-Fan83]

And you really think some, if not all of those witnesses wouldn't have talked to the media about the extraordinary events they witnessed?

The yahoos on the bridge, on the boat, the people in the cafe and on the streets outside the cafe etc. Of course they would. This is New York.

Even if the same people from the previous events were there, or watching the news

They wouldn’t of necessarily been able to see her from that far down, to of id her as the same girl, until they saw that news clip (with the zoom in shot of her face) and mention of her name

So, even if they came forward, saying that it was the same girl, it would have been after that news clip already played, and that’s why it wasn’t mentioned at the time
(you do realize at this point I am just arguing for sac of auguring, there really is no point I am trying to make, I fully see your point, but, its just not anything to complain about lol)

 

[The Joker]

Even if the same people from the previous events were there, or watching the news

They wouldn’t of necessarily been able to see her from that far down, to of id her as the same girl, until they saw that news clip (with the zoom in shot of her face) and mention of her name

They wouldn't have to. Everyone in new York who saw the news or read newspapers would know it was her from the Ock and Goblin events.

The newscasters and reporters at all the TV stations should know who she is right away considering she was smack in the middle of two of the biggest stories ever to happen in New York.

Mary Jane Watson? As in the Mary Jane Watson who was kidnapped by the Green Goblin and Doctor Octopus?

(you do realize at this point I am just arguing for sac of auguring, there really is no point I am trying to make, I fully see your point, but, its just not anything to complain about lol)

LOL! You know I actually didn't see this until I quoted your post. But it's good to know that we both realise it has reached this point

Lets leave it at that now. I think we've exhausted this to the max! Thanks for keeping it civil. A rare thing on these boards.