Harley Quinn Girl-Gang Movie Based on "Birds of Prey"

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I hope that Sylvia Hoek will be cast in this movie. She played Luv in Blade Runner 2 and will be the evil sister of Lisbeth Salander in the upcoming Girl in the Spider's Web. She would be a great choice for Catwoman or even Black Canary. She is athletic, bad ass and is a femme fatale. What do you think?

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I hope that Sylvia Hoek will be cast in this movie. She played Luv in Blade Runner 2 and will be the evil sister of Lisbeth Salander in the upcoming Girl in the Spider's Web. She would be a great choice for Catwoman or even Black Canary. She is athletic, bad ass and is a femme fatale. What do you think?

sylvia-hoeks-at-bade-runner-2049-photocall-in-london-09-21-2017_4.jpg

I've never seen her acting so I can only go on her looks. Yeah, I could see her as Catwoman. It's the age thing again.... If Affleck stays (I know that's a big 'if') then for me at 35 she's a bit too young. I've always seen Catwoman and Batman as being around the same age. Having said that, Keaton was/is six years older than Pfeiffer so I guess maybe they can work it with a 10 year age gap.
 
Her acting is good. But won't the accent be a problem?
 
Blake Lively could make a decent Black Canary.
 
I'd like Katheryn Winnick as Black Canary. She's the real deal for all the martial arts too.
 
My main issue is we risking taking personality away from some characters who have a naturally sexy persona because in real life there are people who are happy to show that side of themselves. It is true not every female character should be subjected to revealing clothing, but the opposite side to that is there are characters where that's entirely appropriate. I know people want better female characters but that doesn't mean every character has to suddenly button up conservatively. Patty Jenkins kept Wonder Woman's boots because in her own words it was female wish fulfilment, so I think we have to be careful imposing upon women that their heroes should look like. Does this mean guys are still going to fantasise? Well, yeah, but so what? It's not like women aren't given their own eye candy to drool over anytime one of the heroes takes off their shirt. So, I'm all for Black Canary in the fishnets and sexy outfit, it's her iconic look and there should be no shame in showing it. And again, let leave some room for some sexiness, the entertainment world doesn't need to be that bland.

See I hear this argument a lot and I'm sorry but it doesn't work. It's not the same thing. Do these films through in a couple of scenes of Thor with his shirt off, absolutely. Captain America wearing suspiciously tight-fitting shirts, certainly, Bruce Wayne with his shirt off while working out, definitely, etc.

But here's the distinction, those are one or two token scenes of fanservice, which is fine. But that is NOT the same thing as their SUPERHERO COSTUMES looking that way. Captain America wears a costume that at most just exposes his head (if he takes his helmet off). Thor wears a costume that at most exposes his head and arms (and sometimes he wears costumes that armor his arms up to). Batman only has the lower half of his face exposed. Spider-Man has every single inch of skin covered my his costume, etc.

Then you have the female characters, who often have leotard that show lots of skin, or tight-fitting cleavage-bearing corsets, or high heels, or even Black Widow who's outfit isn't inherently sexual often has artists draw her zipper down to bear her cleavage for no real reason, or fishnets, or glorified swimsuits, etc. THAT'S where the double standards come in. Even the way that they're often posed is telling. Male characters are made to look powerful and badass and you want to be them. Female ones, are drawn to give the readers boners and you want to bang them.

Now there are some characters that this works for. For example, I'm fine with Zatanna or Emma Frost looking that way because it's believable. But Dinah, who often needs to run or jump, or fight hand to hand, etc wearing fishnets. No, and I've never liked the fishnets for that reason.

Now you want to do the female equivalent of the male "fanservice scenes." Do something like a female hero is working out in bike shorts and a sports bra, or they're at the beach or lounging by a pool in a swimsuit, or their swimming or whatever. THERE'S more equivalent scenarios. Heck I'm not even opposed to (if it makes sense in-context) love scenes. I mean I'm the guy who made jokes about the movie being R-rated so that we can get a Harley/Ivy love scene for goodness sake, and I had no problem with WW and Steve Trevor hooking up in her film at all. So I'm not prude when it comes to female sexuality, but only in the right context (and the same is true for men for that matter).

And speaking of WW, her movie costume is a least slightly more believable that the glorified one-piece swimsuit that she often wears in the comics. Her DCEU costumes look kind of like the other Amazon armor which is in turn based off of Greco-Roman battle armor, and current comics have followed suit thank goodness.

I apologize for the length of the post, but I really needed to make my thoughts on this clear so that there's no confusion.
 
See I hear this argument a lot and I'm sorry but it doesn't work. It's not the same thing. Do these films through in a couple of scenes of Thor with his shirt off, absolutely. Captain America wearing suspiciously tight-fitting shirts, certainly, Bruce Wayne with his shirt off while working out, definitely, etc.

But here's the distinction, those are one or two token scenes of fanservice, which is fine. But that is NOT the same thing as their SUPERHERO COSTUMES looking that way.
It's not the same. It's worse. Men have their naked chest fully exposed and is slowly focused on. Female characters mainly wear tight clothes. This isn't me arguing for that. I don't want needlessly tight fitting or exposed women either.

Catwoman is kinda synonymous with tight fitting suit, high heels aren't necessary though.

I think you can make BC work with fishnets but have it be natural and not over exposed. No high heels.
 
It's not just about exposed skin. Male superheroes are sexualized in costume much the way men are sexualized in society. They are portrayed as powerful and badass in part because that's one of the things society has deemed sexy and attractive about men.

Male costumes are often fetishized. Attention is drawn, via the costume design, to their frame, their heroic build/muscles and even their packages. Of course men and women aren't portrayed the same...they are sexualized differently in most societies, why would they suddenly be sexualized the same in film?
 
See I hear this argument a lot and I'm sorry but it doesn't work. It's not the same thing. Do these films through in a couple of scenes of Thor with his shirt off, absolutely. Captain America wearing suspiciously tight-fitting shirts, certainly, Bruce Wayne with his shirt off while working out, definitely, etc.

But here's the distinction, those are one or two token scenes of fanservice, which is fine. But that is NOT the same thing as their SUPERHERO COSTUMES looking that way. Captain America wears a costume that at most just exposes his head (if he takes his helmet off). Thor wears a costume that at most exposes his head and arms (and sometimes he wears costumes that armor his arms up to). Batman only has the lower half of his face exposed. Spider-Man has every single inch of skin covered my his costume, etc.

Then you have the female characters, who often have leotard that show lots of skin, or tight-fitting cleavage-bearing corsets, or high heels, or even Black Widow who's outfit isn't inherently sexual often has artists draw her zipper down to bear her cleavage for no real reason, or fishnets, or glorified swimsuits, etc. THAT'S where the double standards come in. Even the way that they're often posed is telling. Male characters are made to look powerful and badass and you want to be them. Female ones, are drawn to give the readers boners and you want to bang them.

Now there are some characters that this works for. For example, I'm fine with Zatanna or Emma Frost looking that way because it's believable. But Dinah, who often needs to run or jump, or fight hand to hand, etc wearing fishnets. No, and I've never liked the fishnets for that reason.

Now you want to do the female equivalent of the male "fanservice scenes." Do something like a female hero is working out in bike shorts and a sports bra, or they're at the beach or lounging by a pool in a swimsuit, or their swimming or whatever. THERE'S more equivalent scenarios. Heck I'm not even opposed to (if it makes sense in-context) love scenes. I mean I'm the guy who made jokes about the movie being R-rated so that we can get a Harley/Ivy love scene for goodness sake, and I had no problem with WW and Steve Trevor hooking up in her film at all. So I'm not prude when it comes to female sexuality, but only in the right context (and the same is true for men for that matter).

And speaking of WW, her movie costume is a least slightly more believable that the glorified one-piece swimsuit that she often wears in the comics. Her DCEU costumes look kind of like the other Amazon armor which is in turn based off of Greco-Roman battle armor, and current comics have followed suit thank goodness.

I apologize for the length of the post, but I really needed to make my thoughts on this clear so that there's no confusion.

Here's the thing that's being lost in all of this, you're coming at it from the perspective that women want the female characters to be more like the men. Wonder Woman is just as sexy on film as she is in the comic. Let's not make out that women don't like the idea of looking as good as what Gal Gadot does in Wonder Woman. A large reason for Wonder Woman's success isn't just because she's a kick arse female character, it's that she represents all the strengths and beauty of femininity itself and that's appealing to a lot of women. Remember that male wish fulfilment and female wish fulfilment are completely different. I look at the recent Tomb Raider movie as a film that gets lost trying to neutralise the femininity of its hero, and all we got was a bland movie where literally anybody could have been the lead character. You may have a point that it can get overboard sometimes in comics in terms of how the girls are drawn, but also think the vast majority of women don't give a ****.
 
Ana de Armas
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I want to be considered for Catwoman.
 
Here's the thing that's being lost in all of this, you're coming at it from the perspective that women want the female characters to be more like the men. Wonder Woman is just as sexy on film as she is in the comic. Let's not make out that women don't like the idea of looking as good as what Gal Gadot does in Wonder Woman. A large reason for Wonder Woman's success isn't just because she's a kick arse female character, it's that she represents all the strengths and beauty of femininity itself and that's appealing to a lot of women. Remember that male wish fulfilment and female wish fulfilment are completely different. I look at the recent Tomb Raider movie as a film that gets lost trying to neutralise the femininity of its hero, and all we got was a bland movie where literally anybody could have been the lead character. You may have a point that it can get overboard sometimes in comics in terms of how the girls are drawn, but also think the vast majority of women don't give a ****.

The vast majority of women don’t read comics, so that’s not a really fair argument. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that most comics are written by men, for men.

I’d love for a woman to chime in here, because in my experience, a lot of them are actually quite tired of the (keyword) unnecessary sexualization of females in popular media. Look at WW, BP, and JL for example: the former were praised by men and women alike for portraying women en masse as strong, sexy, and capable without dressing them in skimpy clothing. The latter was somewhat widely criticized for altering the Amazons’ clothing to show off more of their bodies.
 
The vast majority of women don’t read comics, so that’s not a really fair argument. I don’t think it’s unfair to say that most comics are written by men, for men.

I’d love for a woman to chime in here, because in my experience, a lot of them are actually quite tired of the (keyword) unnecessary sexualization of females in popular media. Look at WW, BP, and JL for example: the former were praised by men and women alike for portraying women en masse as strong, sexy, and capable without dressing them in skimpy clothing. The latter was somewhat widely criticized for altering the Amazons’ clothing to show off more of their bodies.

And what did the Amazons themselves have to say about it? They were fine with it because they worked their arses off for to be able to look that good. And Wonder Woman's outfit isn't all that less revealing that it is in the comic, there's not logical reason for her skirt to be that short if we really think about it. We need to stop making out as if most people are offended by any of this or that it's even a bad thing. Sexiness is fine.
 
And what did the Amazons themselves have to say about it? They were fine with it because they worked their arses off for to be able to look that good. And Wonder Woman's outfit isn't all that less revealing that it is in the comic, there's not logical reason for her skirt to be that short if we really think about it. We need to stop making out as if most people are offended by any of this or that it's even a bad thing. Sexiness is fine.

Do those actresses speak for all women?

And I’m not trying to imply anything about those women by saying this, but it’s not hard to find people who are willing to set the movement back (so to speak) for the right price in the film industry.

Like I said before: you don’t need to sacrifice sexiness for practicality. There’s a world of difference between wanting to put an end to blatant and unnecessary instances of sexualization and wanting everyone to dress like a nun.

Wonder Woman, herself, strikes the perfect balance.
 
Do those actresses speak for all women?

And I’m not trying to imply anything about those women by saying this, but it’s not hard to find people who are willing to set the movement back (so to speak) for the right price in the film industry.

Like I said before: you don’t need to sacrifice sexiness for practicality. There’s a world of difference between wanting to put an end to blatant and unnecessary instances of sexualization and wanting everyone to dress like a nun.

Wonder Woman, herself, strikes the perfect balance.

Then you are trying to imply something because you're calling to question the motives for these women being in support of this. The Amazons were for the most part fitness trainers and crossfit athletes hired because they were strong and good looking. They were fine with it because people in fitness like looking in good shape and like others seeing it, otherwise you wouldn't have countless instagram models who's entire careers are built on this. This 'movement' you speak of doesn't speak for them either. Like it or not people like looking at the attractive qualities of each gender, and that's not changing.
 
It does say something that we have had 4 huge female characters adapted to the DCEU and 3/4 have had to show skin. WW it was to be expected. Faora was the only one who was fully clothed.

But Katana?
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Harley?
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Enchantress
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Then you are trying to imply something because you're calling to question the motives for these women being in support of this. The Amazons were for the most part fitness trainers and crossfit athletes hired because they were strong and good looking. They were fine with it because people in fitness like looking in good shape and like others seeing it, otherwise you wouldn't have countless instagram models who's entire careers are built on this. This 'movement' you speak of doesn't speak for them either. Like it or not people like looking at the attractive qualities of each gender, and that's not changing.

Nope, I’m not. Which is why I explicitly said that I wasn’t. It’s just a fact that there are people willing to say or do things that others wouldn’t if they’re being offered a salary to do so. Whether or not the women in question are those people is unknown to me, and again, the implication was not that they, specifically, are those people. I’ve nothing more to say on the subject.

I’m fully aware of everything else you mentioned. They have nothing to do with the discussion we’re having. For the third time: you don’t have to sacrifice sexiness for practicality.
 
Nope, I’m not. Which is why I explicitly said that I wasn’t. It’s just a fact that there are people willing to say or do things that others wouldn’t if they’re being offered a salary to do so. Whether or not the women in question are those people is unknown to me, and again, the implication was not that they, specifically, are those people. I’ve nothing more to say on the subject.

I’m fully aware of everything else you mentioned. They have nothing to do with the discussion we’re having. For the third time: you don’t have to sacrifice sexiness for practicality.

That is an implication though. You're insinuating that these women can't be genuinely proud of showing off their figures and have no issue with being seen dressed in that way and instead are towing some type of corporate line.

The problem with your second part is subjectivity. For some people Black Canary wearing fishnets is no big deal, for others it is. And to be honest, there's not much that is practical about 90% of these superhero costumes. They're are there for the most part to look good not to really function. The only film that went to any real lengths to give a practical reason for its costumes existence was probably the Nolan Batman films.
 
Everybody and their mama liked the Harley costume though. You know how many Harley costumes i saw last year??? TOO GOT DAMN MANY!!!
 
It does say something that we have had 4 huge female characters adapted to the DCEU and 3/4 have had to show skin. WW it was to be expected. Faora was the only one who was fully clothed.

Enchantress
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To be fair, I doubt they were going for "sexy" here.
 
*raises hand* woman here

I think that Wonder Woman's costume is a perfect balance of practicality and sexyness. But if your'e going to start pulling the string now, then you would realize 90% of heroes and villains costumes are hella impractical. If people just hate sexualized female characters then just say so. But using practicality as an argument over costumes is ****in weird. lol
 
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