Harry Potter Book 7 [SPOILERS-ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK!]

[Matt]

in the end it was still about the power of love conquering all...even the most powerful and evil of magic. And I'll stand by what I said...James continues to get the shaft in the end...the more that is revealed about how cruel he was to Snape...the less we care for him. It angered me as the reader, but eventually, I just blame it on JK for poor story arcs.

Shouldn't Harry's epilogue son have been named James Severus Potter? I thought that would have been more effective...but then she couldn't have written that "two of the bravest men I've ever met" line. It came off a bit cliche.

I don't think it was a weak arc. James was a child. People do grow up and mature. That is what is great about Rowling's characters. They are all real people, with real flaws.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

I don't think it was a weak arc. James was a child. People do grow up and mature. That is what is great about Rowling's characters. They are all real people, with real flaws.

But then again, I'm pressed to remember any good things that we heard about James other than he being a great Quiddich player...?

What did he do as an adult? All the **** he put Snape through stands out above all.

 

[Matt]

From Rowling own words

Do you think snape is a hero?

J.K. Rowling: Yes, I do; though a very flawed hero. An anti-hero, perhaps. He is not a particularly likeable man in many ways. He remains rather cruel, a bully, riddled with bitterness and insecurity - and yet he loved, and showed loyalty to that love. and, ultimately, laid down his life because of it. That's pretty heroic!




He isn't a hero, but he isn't evil either.

That isn't fact. It is Rowling's opinion and she is the first to say everyone is entitled to their own on her characters.

 

[Matt]

He's really off-base about Snape, but that's pretty much how James is portrayed. Presumably he's usually a nice guy because of he's supposed to be within context, but other than helping Remus the only accounts ever given of him are mocking and playing dangerous pranks on Snape (who is now a tragic hero).

Loving his child and his wife are the only positive attributes you ever hear about him.

Nonsense, read the first two books again. Practically anyone who knew James will say what a good man he was. James was an immature, prat of a child, but he did grow up.

 

[Matt]

But then again, I'm pressed to remember any good things that we heard about James other than he being a great Quiddich player...?

See my above post.

What did he do as an adult? All the **** he put Snape through stands out above all.

Well, he fought Voldemort in the Order and thrice defied him. That implies to me he was willing to give up his life to protect innocence. That is pretty damn noble. He was willing to defend his wife and son, unarmed against the most dangerous wizard of their time. Again, pretty damn noble. And unlike Snape who was willing to write someone off based on their blood, James gave Lupin a chance...despite the fact that he was something practically everyone in the wizard world associated with evil. Same with Sirius. He may have been an immature child, but he did seem to have a good heart.

And the Snape event stands out because Harry viewed it. Keep in mind, these books (save the first chapter of the first book, and the first two chapters of book seven) are entirely from Harry's perspective. It is limited first-person. Therefore we only see what Harry sees. James was dead when Harry was 1. We never got to know James, just like Harry. Perhaps that is why both James and Lily are ambiguous. It could be intentional. That way the reader feels what Harry feels, constant uncertainty.

 

[Matt]

Okay, ture enough. I'm just not a fan of the heavy handed names for one dimensional villains.

Draco was hardly one dimensional and as for Scorpius, it is quite fitting that a stuck up jerk with a superiority complex like Draco would go for an overly grand name like "Scorpius"

 

[Matt]

Harry should have died, that he didn't and the way that she executed it was total deus ex machina and cheapened the whole thing even more than the ludicrous amount of deaths over characters that didn't matter in the first place. I couldn't help but laugh at Hedwig's death scene. I was pissed about Tonks because she was underused ever since she showed up, only to die uneventfully for the sake of making Harry a godfather to yet another orphan even though we will never see how that impacted him in any way. The only time I was really gripped was when Hermione was being tortured by Bellatrix. Also, any impact the epilouge had in it's attempt to deal with Harry's realization of what it means to be a father was lost when I read the line "So that's little Scorpius, eh?"; I know Rowling loves the nomenclature equals character approach, but Scorpius sounds like something out of Mortal Kombat.

If you think Harry's death was simple deus ex machina you must've missed the point of the last ten chapters.

 

[Matt]

No, but I think we can agree that he was a tragic character. I did feel pity for him at his end...

I don't think he was tragic. I feel no pity for Snape. His own actions led him to lose Lily.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

See my above post.



Well, he fought Voldemort in the Order and thrice defied him. That implies to me he was willing to give up his life to protect innocence. That is pretty damn noble. He was willing to defend his wife and son, unarmed against the most dangerous wizard of their time. Again, pretty damn noble. And unlike Snape who was willing to write someone off based on their blood, James gave Lupin a chance...despite the fact that he was something practically everyone in the wizard world associated with evil. Same with Sirius. He may have been an immature child, but he did seem to have a good heart.

And the Snape event stands out because Harry viewed it. Keep in mind, these books (save the first chapter of the first book, and the first two chapters of book seven) are entirely from Harry's perspective. It is limited first-person. Therefore we only see what Harry sees. James was dead when Harry was 1. We never got to know James, just like Harry. Perhaps that is why both James and Lily are ambiguous. It could be intentional. That way the reader feels what Harry feels, constant uncertainty.

Yeah, I read your previous post right after I posted that..

Good points, but it wouldn't have hurt to hear about some of James' exploits as an adult...

People are a lot more likely to say good things about someone after they're dead.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, I read your previous post right after I posted that..

Good points, but it wouldn't have hurt to hear about some of James' exploits as an adult...

People are a lot more likely to say good things about someone after they're dead.

Granted, but I think Rowling wanted to keep it that way. We will never know the truth about Lily and James. It is that uncertainty that often hurts orphans the most. I think she wants readers to feel the same way Harry does. The constant unknowing.

 

[Swordmaster]

Something else good about James: I'm re-reading DH, and Lupin says James would consider it the height of dishonor to distrust his friends.

 

[Jack Rabbit]

Granted, but I think Rowling wanted to keep it that way. We will never know the truth about Lily and James. It is that uncertainty that often hurts orphans the most. I think she wants readers to feel the same way Harry does. The constant unknowing.

Kay.

You convinced me.

 

[Victarion]

Something else good about James: I'm re-reading DH, and Lupin says James would consider it the height of dishonor to distrust his friends.

I suppose he learned to never trust a man with a skullet, then.

Little anthologies on the Marauders would be a nice project for Mrs. Rowling, when she's ready to revisit the wizarding word.

 

[chaseter]

I don't think he was tragic. I feel no pity for Snape. His own actions led him to lose Lily.

He was a young slitherin...brainwashed at the start of his school year that what Voldemort was doing was right and true. So, he joined up when he was still a teen and then tried to right his wrongs. He went to Dumbledore before he killed Lily and James and spent the rest of his life trying to right what he thought was his fault for the death of Lily. He loved Lily and after she died that night, vowed to help Dumbledore protect Harry and bring down the man that killed his first love. No matter how much dislike he had for Harry, because of how much he reminded himself of James, Snape stayed tride and true to Dumbledore, Hogwarts, and his word. His methods weren't always obvious, but they were right. For those reasons, Snape made me sad after he died, and died over something extremely stupid because of what Voldemort thought.

 

[Dew k. Mosi]

Finished it last night and I have to say one thing.

NEVILLE!!!!!!!!

 

[JewishHobbit]

I'm gay for Neville and his scene was awsome! But he should have taken out Belatrix!!!

 

[Matt]

He was a young slitherin...brainwashed at the start of his school year that what Voldemort was doing was right and true. So, he joined up when he was still a teen and then tried to right his wrongs. He went to Dumbledore before he killed Lily and James and spent the rest of his life trying to right what he thought was his fault for the death of Lily. He loved Lily and after she died that night, vowed to help Dumbledore protect Harry and bring down the man that killed his first love. No matter how much dislike he had for Harry, because of how much he reminded himself of James, Snape stayed tride and true to Dumbledore, Hogwarts, and his word. His methods weren't always obvious, but they were right. For those reasons, Snape made me sad after he died, and died over something extremely stupid because of what Voldemort thought.

I applaude his attempt to turn it around, but I hardly think he was brainwashed. He was trying to convince Lily how Slytherin and pure bloods were better before the sorting.

 

[chaseter]

I applaude his attempt to turn it around, but I hardly think he was brainwashed. He was trying to convince Lily how Slytherin and pure bloods were better before the sorting.

Snape's dad, Tobias, twisted his mind when he was a kid since he was a muggle and hated magic...he more than likely was repulsed at his son for his magical gifts. As seen in HBP...Snape obviously was proud of his mother's magical side...'Half Blood Prince' and didn't care at all for his father. Along with Voldemort's dismissive, hatefull muggle father, Snape more than likely felt connected with someone with the same fate and lineage as his own. It is even mentioned that Snape was Voldemort's favorite, although Bellatrix would dissagree. Along with Snape's father hating magic and Lily's sister thinking it is weird and awful as well...Snape developed a love for everything magic and a distrust to everything and everyone not magical. Once he got to Slytherin, they more than likely sealed his fate and pressured him to further join Voldemort.

 

[Carcharodon]

I don't think he was tragic. I feel no pity for Snape. His own actions led him to lose Lily.

I think we need to review the definition of a, "tragic character."

His own actions led him to lose Lily...a person he loved. That's tragic, especially from a literary standpoint.

 

[Carcharodon]

tragic flaw
n.
A flaw in the character of the protagonist of a tragedy that brings the protagonist to ruin or sorrow.


Now, while Snape wasn't necessarily, "the," protagonist, he can be regarded as a protagonist in his own right (of his own story).

He's a tragic character. It's not really a matter of opinion, in this case. The definition says it all.

 

[Majik1387]

Neville is starting to annoy me.

 

[Leto Atrides]

Well, the books are over so you made out well there.

 

[user123456789]

I'm gay for Neville and his scene was awsome! But he should have taken out Belatrix!!!

what scene?

 

[Dew k. Mosi]

Where he took care of business at the end of the book!!!!

NEVILLE!!!!!!

 

[FatalEnergy]

So, what was that thing that was crying under Harry's chair during the King's cross chapter?