Help a non-believer understand: X3 was great

[Odin's Lapdog]

But X2 had a complex plot...which wasn't obvious from the start.

are you saying you could gauge the plot of the first x-men film from the outset

nothing in the adverts or story leads you to magneto's scheme until necessary well into the film.

i don't see how much more complex x2 was in comparison.

it was basically 'lie to president to steal computer to kill all mutants'

voila

i recognise that all baddie schemes are pretty bad in this genre but i don't x2's stands out anymore than the majority.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

oh man... theres so much.. and i suck balls at explaining things

well at least try, i'm willing to here what you have to say, even if you only focus on a few points.

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

It amazes me the folks who say Jean didn't do anything blah blah. I viewed her as the only Omega leveled mutant in the movie cause Iceman is so young. With Magneto talking so much about pawns an the look on her face specially when she turned the cure darts back on him said you Magneto are my pawn.She waited around while the insects beat each other up then she faced off with those left.If she had not chosen to let Logan phoenixkabob her she really had no challenge on the field since Rogue was missing.I really wish all the haters would go away now since it's become a trollfest in EVERY post on these boards now.


Mek

 

[Infinity9999x]

I think the reason I liked it more is basically because:

1. I stayed away from this forum during the last few months before the movie released. I wanted to form my own views and didn't want to see any spoilers.

2. I came in kind of expecting it to be bad, like V for Vendetta. I didn't have high expectations, simply because of singer leaving, then vaughn leaving, all the new mutants packed in it. So I was ready for a crappy movie, but when I watched it I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[crappymovie]

'lie to president to steal computer to kill all mutants'

True, didn't see it that way. I kept thinking about the Stryker angle, the son's powers etc. And the first X-Men didn't have an obvious plot either, now that I think about it. But X3 definitely did. When you knew Magento knew about the cure -> he's gonna go destory it. Phoenix is back, and evil-> there's gonna be a face off. And basically, there was nothing in between, it just jumped into that.

 

[crappymovie]

Howdy

It amazes me the folks who say Jean didn't do anything blah blah. I viewed her as the only Omega leveled mutant in the movie cause Iceman is so young. With Magneto talking so much about pawns an the look on her face specially when she turned the cure darts back on him said you Magneto are my pawn.She waited around while the insects beat each other up then she faced off with those left.If she had not chosen to let Logan phoenixkabob her she really had no challenge on the field since Rogue was missing.I really wish all the haters would go away now since it's become a trollfest in EVERY post on these boards now.

Mek

I respect your opinion, but my problem is that she didn't have much of a presence in the film...could have been the lack of dialogue. Yes, we know she's "all powerful", but basically it was like she was watching the movie at home silently, and then showed up at the ending to kill everyone.

 

[xwolverine2]

well at least try, i'm willing to here what you have to say, even if you only focus on a few points.

ok.... fine

w/e word defines the type of scenes were angel cuts off his wings...
magneto being recognized by the government...
magneto
some brotherhood interaction (mystique magneto)
how mutants with powers so great like pheonix could push the government to use the cure as weapons...
magnetos vision and prof. x vision finally colliding (spel?)...
real mutant on mutant action straight from the comics....not just wolverine this time.
magneto prof.x interaction/origins... it was in x1 but nowhere near as great as x3.

just had the x-men vibe to it that i love... its a matter of opinion went it comes down to it.

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

Did you not understand Magneto holding back his higher level mutants an directing the battle like all good Generals do? Phoenix had NO challenge on the field so her starting to fight would have made for a very very short action scene.She has evolved an no other mutant has yet so it was very smart for her to watch the lessor ones fight an save herself for those who survived.


Mek

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Howdy

It amazes me the folks who say Jean didn't do anything blah blah. I viewed her as the only Omega leveled mutant in the movie cause Iceman is so young. With Magneto talking so much about pawns an the look on her face specially when she turned the cure darts back on him said you Magneto are my pawn.She waited around while the insects beat each other up then she faced off with those left.If she had not chosen to let Logan phoenixkabob her she really had no challenge on the field since Rogue was missing.I really wish all the haters would go away now since it's become a trollfest in EVERY post on these boards now.


Mek

storms cyclones>pheonix

storms display of controlled power was on a larger scale than jean apparently being unleashed.

 

[xwolverine2]

storms cyclones>pheonix

storms display of controlled power was on a larger scale than jean apparently being unleashed.

i respectfully disagree....

pheonix = freiza (dbz)

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

True, didn't see it that way.

so what you are saying here is that your ability to see depth in a film is entirely based on your own views rather than what has been shown?

if that's the case then anyone can come in here and say any film is more deep than any other film.

you've basically belittled two films for no reason other than opinion if you stand by this comment

I kept thinking about the Stryker angle, the son's powers etc. And the first X-Men didn't have an obvious plot either, now that I think about it. But X3 definitely did. When you knew Magento knew about the cure -> he's gonna go destory it. Phoenix is back, and evil-> there's gonna be a face off. And basically, there was nothing in between, it just jumped into that.

not that i'm a fan of the last film but the reason perhaps it was so obvious was because it was supposed to conclude a saga so the advertiting were probably just selling the story to get as large a crowd to come to watch it as possible, it could very well be a cut away film with people coming to watch it that had never seen any of the original ones.

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

That's just your love of the Storm charater talking. Sorry to break it to ya but Jean is Omega level by Marvel standards an Storm doesn't come close cause she is limited to earth.She has to have weather around her to manipulate where as Jean just needs matter.

Mek

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

i respectfully disagree....

pheonix = freiza (dbz)

how could you disagree?

storm unleashes seven or eight cyclones each covering a diameter of an sr-71 aircraft while still flying the x-jet.

this is only using one aspect of her powers in a controlled state.

relatively in comparison to jean being unleashed right at the end of the last stand i felt if it was storm in her position, then everyone would have truelly been ****ed with absolutely no way of taking her out...

what power wielding scene of jean rivals what is seen by storm in the second film on purely a scale factor?

the largest scale attack jean provides, coveres an area of a large mansion?

the jets flying at that speed cover those distances in mere seconds yet the cyclones remain in visible view

 

[crappymovie]

so what you are saying here is that your ability to see depth in a film is entirely based on your own views rather than what has been shown?

if that's the case then anyone can come in here and say any film is more deep than any other film.

you've basically belittled two films for no reason other than opinion if you stand by this comment

I was trying to respect your opinion and not immediately disregard what you said. It's called trying to understand someone else's views.

 

[xwolverine2]

how could you disagree?

storm unleashes seven or eight cyclones each covering a diameter of an sr-71 aircraft while still flying the x-jet.

this is only using one aspect of her powers in a controlled state.

relatively in comparison to jean being unleashed right at the end of the last stand i felt if it was storm in her position, then everyone would have truelly been ****ed with absolutely no way of taking her out...

what power wielding scene of jean rivals what is seen by storm in the second film on purely a scale factor?

the largest scale attack jean provides, coveres an area of a large mansion?

the jets flying at that speed cover those distances in mere seconds yet the cyclones remain in visible view

yes but even with all those tornados she only managed to beat one jet and the other destroyed the ****ing jet!........

you cant compare there powers man...

pheonix = frieza!

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

Your comparing Jean's house scene to Storm's Jet scene. Your kinda missing the fact that Jean only wanted to battle the folks in the house.She could very well have used the PLANET to shake up those in the house if she wanted to.You need to think about % here.Storm was useing a high % of her power to make the cyclones while Jean may have been useing 2% of her battle in the house to stop everyone from getting involved AND doing battle with Prof X.


Mek

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

rule no 1: you don't have to respect my opinion, i'm pretty sure no one else really does or takes it seriously, just as long as you are polite then feel free to say what you will to moi.

as for the rest, i don't mind your evaluation, it really wasn't what i was getting to. it's just in an earlier post you made it seems as if plotwise x2 was lightyears better than the other films in the franchise and your reasoning factor just painted a picture which i felt could be used by any one who likes one film over another.

there are actually reasons why i feel some of the plots used are stronger than others and that comes down to motivations and the realistic effect of such a plot and the effect on the grand scale of things.

however being able to simplify them isn't merely enough cause a large proportions of films in this genre can be simplified to an ogre-esque sentence, even teh very best of them. Most likely it's done so that all age levels can get something out of it but that doesn't necessarily make it a better or worse plot.

as mean as simple as the incredibles plot is, i feel it has a better one than all three of these films essentially and portrays a more envious nature of humans on those with powers and how they use the law to try and exploit them, fairly similar to what is scene in this universe although the envy is replaced by fear.

no beef, you don't have to be defensive, i just want people to be sure of what they say otherwise why say it at all...

 

[weatherwitch]

Howdy

Your comparing Jean's house scene to Storm's Jet scene. Your kinda missing the fact that Jean only wanted to battle the folks in the house.She could very well have used the PLANET to shake up those in the house if she wanted to.You need to think about % here.Storm was useing a high % of her power to make the cyclones while Jean may have been useing 2% of her battle in the house to stop everyone from getting involved AND doing battle with Prof X.


Mek

Uhm, how do you know? The movie version of the Phoenix is not a cosmic entity as it was in the comics, it's a duality. Jean's powers, though vast are unlimited only by being unknown in the movie verse. I agree that she could probably have wiped out everyone if she wanted, but she didn't. All of the X-Men were still standing ('cept Xavier and Cyclops the two people closest to Jean Grey--which in my opinion was intentional to the plot. Phoenix killed the two people that could anchor Jean in order to run free...anyway...). And in X2 Storm didn't look worn out like she'd used too much power. The jets were destroyed, she was finished not knowing the last plane had fired. The missiles were an unkown and Jean destroyed... one. Missile. Not jet. Missile. Hm.

In X3 the ending was...cheesy. Wolverine saving Jean from herself. Ooookay. But does that mean I didn't enjoy this movie more than the first two? Nope. 'Cause I did. X3 is my favorite of the three.

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

yes but even with all those tornados she only managed to beat one jet and the other destroyed the ****ing jet!........

you cant compare there powers man...

pheonix = frieza!

heh, the tornadoes weren't offensive ones, merely used as an evasive form of escape. there intentions weren't to cause harm...

again a jean off the hook is relatively tame in comparison to ororo would be cabaple of in her comparison.

true we don't see ororo's destructive side but with reasoning one can extrapolate out to come to some sort of idea of where it would be.

and considering how weak jean is to physical assault, i'm sure a bolt to the face would have taken her out.

saying this, it doesn't take into account jean's ability to surpress ororo's abilities but in an all out tactile bout, i feel ororo has shown she has sufficient power to take out the pheonix or be more of a threat in her position.

if anything, she seemed depowered in this film. i guess she traded in flight and lightening from her hands with raw power silly moo...

 

[crappymovie]

I think it's just difficult to articulate what made X3 and X1 seem simpler in plot than X2 but here's my idea: X1 seemed to have a typical world domination idea, coupled with a doomsday machine. Although you weren't sure why Magneto needed Wolverine for his plan (turned out to be Rogue...a little plot twist) you knew he had a big plan. I know realize that you knew very little about his plan throughout the movie.

X2: my favourite because it had suspense, the first part of the movie never gave any clear indication of what Stryker was doing. You got the glimpse of the second Cerebro in the office, but you didn't know it's implications. The "big plan" was a little more complex, because it used a *logical* device to target humans.

X3: Early on, you knew Magneto was looking for the cure. You knew he wanted to destroy it. Phoenix came back, but she wasn't herself. She was going to fight the X-Men. All very obvious. You just waited until this happened. I didn't get an epic feeling from the movie, because the motivations of the characters were obvious. But maybe because it was the last movie. I just expected a lot more of the "behind the scenes" war to be shown (how the characters were preparing themselves, etc.)

 

[YJ1]

X3 improves upon the X-Men franchise in almost every way. I liked Singer’s previous work but Ratner just took the ball and ran with it. He took what Singer did so well and added what was lacking. The plot is more complex yet has more structure, the characters are better written as they are more in their element in this movie, the special effects are more realistic, and the action is more engrossing, as it pulls you into the movie from the very beginning and never lets go.

One of the best improvements about X3 is that virtually no screen time is spent on background character development. Granted, X2 didn’t dwell on the first film but X3 just does it better. In X3, even the newer characters that are introduced get very little time devoted to their past. And you know what? It works. People in general are smart and can read between the lines, thus negating the necessity for cumbersome background information. Apparently Ratner figured this out, because X3 flows smoothly, with hardly a stutter along the way to break up the action. That’s the key. As good as X2 was, X3 simply has better action without sacrificing the heart or character development or the emotion that made this franchise the juggernaut that it is…pun intended!

 

[xwolverine2]

heh, the tornadoes weren't offensive ones, merely used as an evasive form of escape. there intentions weren't to cause harm...

again a jean off the hook is relatively tame in comparison to ororo would be cabaple of in her comparison.

true we don't see ororo's destructive side but with reasoning one can extrapolate out to come to some sort of idea of where it would be.

and considering how weak jean is to physical assault, i'm sure a bolt to the face would have taken her out.

saying this, it doesn't take into account jean's ability to surpress ororo's abilities but in an all out tactile bout, i feel ororo has shown she has sufficient power to take out the pheonix or be more of a threat in her position.

if anything, she seemed depowered in this film. i guess she traded in flight and lightening from her hands with raw power silly moo...

jean = vaporize storm......... PERIOD.

lol... but its true... theres no fight

 

[Odin's Lapdog]

Howdy

Your comparing Jean's house scene to Storm's Jet scene. Your kinda missing the fact that Jean only wanted to battle the folks in the house.She could very well have used the PLANET to shake up those in the house if she wanted to.You need to think about % here.Storm was useing a high % of her power to make the cyclones while Jean may have been useing 2% of her battle in the house to stop everyone from getting involved AND doing battle with Prof X.

Mek

storm was concentrating on flying the jet while also creating those cyclones, and she was at no time wiped or exhausted.

and i wasn't using the house as my example, i was using her outburst on alcatraz which was apparently a much larger exploit of her abilities (for arguments sake i will also say not full power but more around 50% ) in which the area affected by the demolecularisation was centred to around the size of a moderately sized mansion (not house).

planet shaking exaggerations are purely based on what you would expect of a comic entity of the phoenix but there is no indication of a global scale of her powers?

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

Storm couldn't save them in the ending of X-2.Jean did.

Mek

 

[xwolverine2]

character development or the emotion that made this franchise the juggernaut that it is…pun intended!

are you saying juggernaut had no character development?


DUH!!!...lol hes the juggernaut *****!! for gods sakes.... if he HAD chracter development then he would not be the juggernaut