Hollywood Needs To Fail Again

[chamber-music]

The top ten highest grossing movies of each year are usually the blockbusters and animated kids films.

Occasionally you get low to mid range budget movies like Magic Mike that cost $7 million to make and ends up taking over a $150 million at the box office but those type of big returns are getting more rare and not worth the studios risk of investing in them.

 

[Dr. Evil]

What is with all of these Religious movies doing well?

 

[terry78]

What is with all of these Religious movies doing well?

Middle America is religious. They number larger than both coasts combined.

 

[Octoberist]

Lord Have Mercy.

 

[terry78]

NYC and LA make movies to appeal to the rest of us, hence all the major stupid **** decisions they make.

 

[Octoberist]

Damn..damn..damn..damn.

 

[Warhammer]

IM3 was somewhat subversive, Cap 2 was not, it fails because it assigns the blame to Hydra. The real US government, which is committing many of the same crimes as Hydra in Cap 2, has not been taken over by rogue Nazis. It is committing all of these acts of its own nature and volition, not because its taken over by a foreign parasite.

Thus, the allegory fails.

I wouldn't say that the blame goes to Hydra in the sense that aren't scapegoats. The blame goes to S.H.I.E.L.D. and it takes the fall. Yes, Hydra infiltrated the organization and influenced things behind the scenes, but it was S.H.I.E.L.D. and the World Security Council that take the fall. S.H.I.E.L.D. and the World Security Council are personified by Nick Fury and his ideology, which Captain America clashes with. The hubris of Nick Fury bites him in his ass. S.H.I.E.L.D. definitely represents "big government" in an allegory to contemporary America. Hydra was essentially a bad apple of the bunch.

To bring the point home, it was S.H.I.E.L.D. and the WSC who decided to put those helicarriers in the sky, not Hydra. But Hydra said "Cool, we'll just go ahead and put the Zola algorithm in there."

 

[Lord]

I heard Noah was good, but the trailer didn't make it find it original at all. A friend even thought it was a parody of Hollywood making melodramas of everything. It honestly looks like the kind of film they would do in the 50s, but with the more "edgy" and "dark" style of today.

I found Noah and Lego to be better than CA:TWS, Divergent was a step down from Noah and Lego due to script problems.

Didn't watch Jumper or I am Number Four. I have not liked Hayden Christensen in anything since Higher Ground.

The Winter Soldier was a very good action movie for me, it was fun like a good roller coaster ride with some good jokes thrown in. It was well-executed for what it it ended to be, but the absence of themes, depth, or character arcs, the shallowness of Alexander Pierce, and the politicaly offensive exoneration of our collective guilt means it is nothing more than... a well-executed action movie. This article really nails it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...n-america-the-winter-soldier-gets-very-wrong/
CA:TWS is fun, but it's dumb. In contrast, Lego and Noah left me thinking for days. I prefer the latter.

Weren't you a fan of films dealing with Drone Warfare?

 

[dark_b]

Noah's marketing was trying to hide the real movie.

 

[Warhammer]

Yeah, the film you end up seeing is definitely original. It's way more than just God telling a dude to build an ark for some flood.

 

[DA_Champion]

I heard Noah was good, but the trailer didn't make it find it original at all. A friend even thought it was a parody of Hollywood making melodramas of everything. It honestly looks like the kind of film they would do in the 50s, but with the more "edgy" and "dark" style of today.



Weren't you a fan of films dealing with Drone Warfare?

Oblivion was much more competent and original than TWS.

 

[Lord]

Original? I know that this is like reopening a can of worm, but it felt to me like a milkshake of Science Fiction Troupes. The visuals were amazing, i won't deny that, i'm pretty sure it's due to the Director's background on architecture.

 

[Octoberist]

Oblivion was much more competent and original than TWS.

TWS is a more entertaining film to me.

 

[Octoberist]

Original? I know that this is like reopening a can of worm, but it felt to me like a milkshake of Science Fiction Troupes. The visuals were amazing, i won't deny that, i'm pretty sure it's due to the Director's background on architecture.

It was. I liked Obvlivion but it wore it's influence on its sleeve without bringing anything new to the genre. It was a fine film that titer-totters on generic. It was Cruise and production design that elevates the weak script.

Verses Moon in which, a film that pays homage to sci-fi troupes, was able to make itself stand out in the genre.

Just like how Drive has a derivative story but it's sense of style and tone made it unique. It still resonates with people.

 

[DA_Champion]

Original? I know that this is like reopening a can of worm, but it felt to me like a milkshake of Science Fiction Troupes. The visuals were amazing, i won't deny that, i'm pretty sure it's due to the Director's background on architecture.

Yes, we've been through this before, but anyway ...

Marvel meeting sometime in 2012:
"So we blew up a helicarrier in The Avengers, how can we top that in The Winter Soldier?"
"Let's blow up THREE helicarriers !!!"
So yeah, TWS is original, we've never seen three helicarriers get blown up before.

TWS is a more entertaining film to me.

TWS is more fun, Oblivion is more intelligent and ore beautiful to look at.

 

[Lord]

I disagree about Oblivion being inteligent, a Director may try to be inteligent and talk a lot about the themes of his movies, that doesn't make those films inteligent. We've been through this before, so i don't think there's much to add to the discussion.

I remember in the trailer, the thing with the helicarrier feeling that way, but i'm not sure it happened because they wanted to be bigger than The Avengers (which frankly, it may have had an alien invasion and heroes team up, but i didn't find it all that big compared to many other blockbusters.)

 

[Octoberist]

Oblivion was entertaining for what it was, but it wasn't intellectual or anything. It's fairly shallow but that's okay. Elysium is another movie that wasn't smart enough to really drive the themes home thematically or in a meaningful way but it was fine for what it was.

 

[DA_Champion]

I disagree about Oblivion being inteligent, a Director may try to be inteligent and talk a lot about the themes of his movies, that doesn't make those films inteligent. We've been through this before, so i don't think there's much to add to the discussion.

I remember in the trailer, the thing with the helicarrier feeling that way, but i'm not sure it happened because they wanted to be bigger than The Avengers (which frankly, it may have had an alien invasion and heroes team up, but i didn't find it all that big compared to many other blockbusters.)

We've had this argument before and now we're going around in circles. When I get around to watching Oblivion again, I'll take some notes, write them and send you a message linking to the post, right now I have nothing to add.

I think they went from one helicarrier to three helicarriers as a cheap way to go bigger.

 

[DA_Champion]

Oblivion was entertaining for what it was, but it wasn't intellectual or anything. It's fairly shallow but that's okay. Elysium is another movie that wasn't smart enough to really drive the themes home thematically or in a meaningful way but it was fine for what it was.

Elysium was plenty smart in its first hour, it had a lot of real clever world-building. Its problem was the third act, a 60 minute action scene or so. It was real boring.

Oblivion was plenty intelligent, it merely went over the heads of American audiences, most of whom have no idea what the movie was about. It reminds me of how back in 1998, most American audience and critics had no idea that Starship Troopers was actually a critique of fascism.

When Joseph Kosinski directs again, he will need to work on his action scenes, make them more fun. So far his action scenes are kind of boring (for whatever reason), and that's not acceptable, you cannot get away with being smart but boring when making blockbusters.

 

[samsnee]

Does anyone think a movie like Field of Dreams or Shawshank Redemption could be made today? Those are the kind of small budget, adult oriented movies I think we're missing today.

 

[weezerspider]

Does anyone think a movie like Field of Dreams or Shawshank Redemption could be made today? Those are the kind of small budget, adult oriented movies I think we're missing today.

American Hustle, The Wolf Of Wall Street, Enough Said, Her, Mud, Dallas Buyers Club, Aint Them Bodies Saints, All Is Lost, Inside Llewyen Davis, Nebraska, and 12 Years A Slave fit that category. That's eleven from last year that I remember.

 

[Donnie Darko]

August: Osage County, Silver Linings Playbook, The Fighter, and Flight are all other examples of adult-oriented dramas in the 20-30 million dollar range, so they exist.

 

[DA_Champion]

American Hustle, The Wolf Of Wall Street, Enough Said, Her, Mud, Dallas Buyers Club, Aint Them Bodies Saints, All Is Lost, Inside Llewyen Davis, Nebraska, and 12 Years A Slave fit that category. That's eleven from last year that I remember.

August: Osage County, Silver Linings Playbook, The Fighter, and Flight are all other examples of adult-oriented dramas in the 20-30 million dollar range, so they exist.

I have not seen American Hustle, but The Fighter and Silver Linings Playbook are both overrated, and I'll argue David O. Russell is overrated. They do not compare to Shawshank Redemption.
I could make the argument against Russell, but someone else has done so better, both the articles and the comments at the bottom:

Film Crit Hulk Smash: HULK VS. SILVER LININGS PLAYBOOK AND CATHARTIC DISHONESTY
http://badassdigest.com/2012/12/07/...ilver-linings-playbook-and-cathartic-dishone/

Film Crit Hulk Smash: THE FALLRISE OF DAVID O. RUSSELL
http://badassdigest.com/2014/01/20/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-fallrise-of-david-o.-russell/

I'm willing to defend the arguments against SLP if there's interest.

 

[weezerspider]

I have not seen American Hustle, but The Fighter and Silver Linings Playbook are both overrated, and I'll argue David O. Russell is overrated. They do not compare to Shawshank Redemption.
I could make the argument against Russell, but someone else has done so better, both the articles and the comments at the bottom:

Film Crit Hulk Smash: HULK VS. SILVER LININGS PLAYBOOK AND CATHARTIC DISHONESTY
http://badassdigest.com/2012/12/07/...ilver-linings-playbook-and-cathartic-dishone/

Film Crit Hulk Smash: THE FALLRISE OF DAVID O. RUSSELL
http://badassdigest.com/2014/01/20/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-fallrise-of-david-o.-russell/

I'm willing to defend the arguments against SLP if there's interest.

Whether you like the films or not, it is a fact that David O. Russell's last three films are adult dramas made in the studio system with reasonable budgets. That's what he was asking.

Also, all you have to do is listen to David O.Russell's NPR interview for American Hustle to know that these three films were very personal to him, so Hulk's "sell out" excuses are pretty weak. Art is an expression of self and those three films clearly did exactly that. That doesn't mean you have to like the films, but to call them disingenuous(which is his biggest point) is pretty naive to say the least.

 

[Lord]

I'm sorry, but i just don't find Kosinski's Filmmaking very inteligent, just like with Zack Snyder, i think he tries to put more meaning in his movies but isn't very successful at that. A single interesting theme doesn't make up for a structure made of other science fiction films, yeah, almost every science fiction story takes from another, but all the major cliches are here, which makes it more obvious, you've got the dreaming guy who becomes a hero, you've got the older guy who shows him the truth of the world, you've got clones, a known landmark from our world destroyed and visible all the time to show how far things have gone, etc.