Iron Man 2 How do you make The Mandarin work for a film?

[kedrell]

I'm not sure I like the idea of a ring search/quest by the Mandarin in IM3. It's a bit too obvious. I think I'd much more prefer him to already have them as soon as we meet him or have him develop them all at once as part of a project he's working on.

Now I've mentioned it several times before in different threads that I think his rings should be tech he creates and just give it a slight "is it or isn't it?" ambiguity as to what exactly he based the tech he developed on(i.e. alien tech like in the comics). Give the rings's a basic premise like Iron Man had(which was basically the arc reactor=big power in a small package). But don't have it be exactly the same as Iron Man's(eg. having Mandy able to further reduce Tony's arc reactor so one could fit in each ring=bad idea). Rather have Mandy use this tech to solve another engineering/physics dilema that has been bothering engineers and scientists for ages: Let him be the guy(with or without using found alien tech...that being intentionally not 100% clear) who solved the wireless power transfer problem. He figured out a way to use huge machines back in his lair/hideout/whatever which generate enormous amounts of raw power and beam(like Star Trek) than energy via satellites anywhere in the world with his rings as a recepticle that catches the energy and converts it into 10 different offensive and defensive weapons. The rings really hold no energy of their own but allow him to operate freely without the need for a visable(or vulnerable) power source. What do you think?

 

[Rich Santoro]

It is interesting... I wouldn't be flipped about it.

I prefer the idea that the rings have their own energy field, and Madarin can merge these with his own consciousness to exert control. It should be mysterious as you stated (extra-terrestial??? other worldly??? from the future??? whatever).

Moreover, I am not totally on board with the acquisition of the rings across the movie timeline, but I do think that it is something interesting to mull over (like the remote power conduit idea). These are good ideas.

 

[The Guard]

It sounds cool, but dangerous.

The character needs to wear ten rings for obvious reasons, and as a nod to his comic book counterpart. I don't think each ring needs to have a different fuction/weapon. Although I'm sure there's a way to make something like that work, maybe have them control or interrupt the circuits in Stark's armor in a surprise move, or some other machines or weapons, but that would almost be too much.

I'm more interested in the character's goals and motivations than in his super cool rings.

Hell, let's just take a page from Favreu's book and combine the Mandarin with another character to make him work. Hell, steal some of Titanium Man's elements.

Kidding, of course.

 

[terry78]

Well, you don't want the **** TOO outrageous, like where one blasts ice, the other fire, etc. The other question is what is a plausible way to address how he controls what they do..via a mind-link, "will power", extremely small sections of the ring he can control via putting pressure on a certain area, etc.

 

[Rich Santoro]

Well, you don't want the **** TOO outrageous, like where one blasts ice, the other fire, etc. The other question is what is a plausible way to address how he controls what they do..via a mind-link, "will power", extremely small sections of the ring he can control via putting pressure on a certain area, etc.

I think it should be a chi thing... This way, he can be depicted as performing martial arts moves to release the rings effects. The idea is that we have an enery field within us... and that field can be merged with the energy fields of the rings to control them. With this, he would have to have spent quite a bit of time learning to control and develop his skills with the rings. That is why he hasn't been wreaking havoc yet, until the timeframe of IM3.

 

[Manowar]

I posted this on the Thor Thread and was going to post it here to but it seems someone else thought of the same thing. I think for the movies, they should have Loki give the "magical" rings to the Mandarin, in exchange for his services or something. It would be a perfect tie-in for Thor and Ironman or even Thor and the Avengers.

 

[tamron]

That idea would work for me, kedrell.

The key thing, imho, is that Mandarin does not come of as just a guy who lucked into the rings. He has to have an element that shows that he is on Tony Stark's level intellectually. Whether it's refining/miniaturizing the arc reactor, creatng a power transfer system, whatever. He's got to be the ultimate threat, not just to Iron Man but also to Tony Stark.

 

[tryp09]

I'm not sure I like the idea of a ring search/quest by the Mandarin in IM3. It's a bit too obvious. I think I'd much more prefer him to already have them as soon as we meet him or have him develop them all at once as part of a project he's working on.

Now I've mentioned it several times before in different threads that I think his rings should be tech he creates and just give it a slight "is it or isn't it?" ambiguity as to what exactly he based the tech he developed on(i.e. alien tech like in the comics). Give the rings's a basic premise like Iron Man had(which was basically the arc reactor=big power in a small package). But don't have it be exactly the same as Iron Man's(eg. having Mandy able to further reduce Tony's arc reactor so one could fit in each ring=bad idea). Rather have Mandy use this tech to solve another engineering/physics dilema that has been bothering engineers and scientists for ages: Let him be the guy(with or without using found alien tech...that being intentionally not 100% clear) who solved the wireless power transfer problem. He figured out a way to use huge machines back in his lair/hideout/whatever which generate enormous amounts of raw power and beam(like Star Trek) than energy via satellites anywhere in the world with his rings as a recepticle that catches the energy and converts it into 10 different offensive and defensive weapons. The rings really hold no energy of their own but allow him to operate freely without the need for a visable(or vulnerable) power source. What do you think?

Not a bad idea at all. But it's too much tech! All three movies will be iron man vs. new technology. I think part of the allure of the IM vs Mandarin battles was the difference in styles between the two. Magic vs. Technology. Taking that away would strip the conflict of it's most appealing characteristic. If you stick with tech vs. tech, then the only attributes you can compare are engineering ability and piloting ability. But with magic and martial arts mastery comes so much more!

 

[Rich Santoro]

^ I agree... I prefer Madarin's genius and mastery to be reflected in his research with the rings and learning how to use these strange and wonderful artifacts.

 

[bossman550]

i want a mixture of tech and magic.

 

[kedrell]

If we're gonna add some magic into it, I think it'd be best to play it up as eastern mysticism rather than over magic 'ala Harry Potter or what might be used in a Doctor Strange movie. Some ambiguity would be very useful here. Keep the audience guessing. Does he really have some magical powers or is it all an illusion or magic trick using advanced technology.

 

[kedrell]

Here's an interesting tidbit that dovetails with my ideas for Mandy, especially how to make his rings work:

Pardon the cliche, but it's one of the holiest of Holy Grails of technology: Wireless power. And while early lab experiments have been able to "beam" electricity a few feet to power a light bulb, the day when our laptops and cell phones can charge without having to plug them in to a wall socket still seems decades in the future.

Nokia, however, has taken another baby step in that direction with the invention of a cell phone that recharges itself using a unique system: It harvests ambient radio waves from the air, and turns that energy into usable power. Enough, at least, to keep a cell phone from running out of juice.

While "traditional" (if there is such a thing) wireless power systems are specifically designed with a transmitter and receiver in mind, Nokia's system isn't finicky about where it gets its wireless waves. TV, radio, other mobile phone systems -- all of this stuff just bounces around the air and most of it is wasted, absorbed into the environment or scattered into the ether. Nokia picks up all the bits and pieces of these waves and uses the collected electromagnetic energy to create electrical current, then uses that to recharge the phone's battery. A huge range of frequencies can be utilized by the system (there's no other way, really, as the energy in any given wave is infinitesimal). It's the same idea that Tesla was exploring 100 years ago, just on a tiny scale.

Mind you, harvesting ambient electromagnetic energy is never going to offer enough electricity to power your whole house or office, but it just might be enough to keep a cell phone alive and kicking. Currently Nokia is able to harvest all of 5 milliwatts from the air; the goal is to increase that to 20 milliwatts in the short term and 50 milliwatts down the line. That wouldn't be enough to keep the phone alive during an active call, but would be enough to slowly recharge the cell phone battery while it's in standby mode, theoretically offering infinite power -- provided you're not stuck deep underground where radio waves can't penetrate.

Nokia says it hopes to commercialize the technology in three to five years.

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/143945

 

[Rich Santoro]

See... that is good dtuff. When there is some iota of reality to the concept (even if way off in scale)

 

[kedrell]

^Yup, I already sent the link to Jon on Twitter. Hopefully he's able to draw some inspiration from it. One thing about anyone who's doing Iron Man, be it in comics, cartoons or films is that they should stay up with whatever's on the cutting edge of real world technology.

 

[MichaelChen]

I would prefer he be a gritty character. This isn't about science vs magic, or east vs west. If it were, well magic is inherently more sympathic than science, and so makes a poor villain. And east vs west? I live in the deep south, and even here you have people taking about doing/not doing something because of good/bad karma, and there are McDonalds on the streets of Beijing. East vs west is meaningless at this point in history.

What the conflict is about, is civilization vs barbarism. The Mandarin is barbaric, he's brutal, he's the second coming of Genghis Khan. As such scenes with The Mandarin should have a look to them that is more like Saw's dungeons than Crouching Tiger/Hidden Dragon. The rings should not be overly dwelt on. No more than ten minutes of the movie should be about the rings. Just a quick explanation for their existence and movin' on. The key is to dwell on his barbarism, his brutality. Emphasize his martial arts in brutal ways, such as punching clean through someone's head, and karate-chopping off someone's arm.

 

[MichaelChen]

How about this for movie Mandarin?

The rings turn out to be just EMP devices he invented himself. Mandarin himself is portrayed kinda like movie Kingpin or movie Blade, he's superhuman by real-world standards, able to punch and kick through steel, but by comic standards he's merely amazing. In a world where everyone and his brother depends on uber-tech, having an EMP always handy and being the greatest martial artist in the world is plenty on those few occasions when he gets into fights.

Tony spends most of the movie fighting minions and figuring out Mandarin's scheme. Then just as it seems he's about to win, Boom he's hit by an EMP. His armor is reduced to little more than just that: an armor. And he's fighting someone who can dent steel with his puches and kicks. Tony figures out some way to win that mostly depends on brains after Mandarin kicks the crap out of his armor, leaving it sparking junk and leaving Tony with most of his bones broken.

 

[Turtles]

What if the Mandarin's ten rings are actually ten people? I know it's not very exciting, or original, or anything special really, but it would work for a movie that supposed to be rooted in reality. Or what if the rings aren't rings that go on your fingers, but another kind of ring? What if they end up being ten massive circular machines that....uh, do something evil? Nobody said the rings had to be small, and worn on the Mandarin's fingers.

If they do make the rings magical somehow, I agree with.....uh, somebody that spoke about this earlier on the board, I don't remember their name....that the movie has got to be from Tony's perspective and the audience had got to be left with an "is it, or isn't it?" feeling at least until the very end of the movie when there is the big reveal. Basically, Tony, the skeptic, has got to spend the whole movie searching like a madman for proof that the Mandarin's tricks are done with smoke and mirrors, not magic, and the audience has got to go along for the ride and be just as much in the dark about the magic as he is.

 

[Denny67]

I like the Iron Man Armored Adventures version:

 

[TheVileOne]

The impression I've gotten is that they are hesitant to go with anything relating to something that's supernatural, mystical, or magical for the movies. Favreau talked about building the world of the movie to be very real, practical, and tech based. So with Mandarin you are dealing with territory that's technically not feasible to the world Favreau has set up in the Iron Man movies. I guess its like the pro-Justice League/anti-Nolan Batman-verse people. Nolan's made a universe that apparently cannot co-exist with a new Justice League movie series or metahumans, Superman etc.

Except . . . Iron Man HAS to do this arbitrarily at some point. Making the rings a creation of science/technology is for all intents a betrayal to the Mandarin character. It seems like no coincidence to me that Mandarin's role if any will be small in Iron Man 2, and at that time Favreau will be stepping out of the director's chair.

The feeling I'm getting is that Favreau doesn't know how to incorporate these new elements into the movies so he wants someone else to do it.

 

[tamron]

I like the Iron Man Armored Adventures version:

Is that the Mandarin or the Shredder? I can't tell.

 

[Mr. Earle]

^ No man, thats the new batsuit for the TDK sequel!

 

[MichaelChen]

Why not just make the rings EMP devices that The Mandarin created? The comics have been de-emphasizing the rings and playing up Mandarin's martial arts skill and intelligence. The movies should follow suit, and take it a step further by making the rings just be EMP gizmos that knock the armor out of the sky, allowing Mandarin to go kung fu on him.

 

[Nefilim]

He might end up looking like Shiwan Khan if we were to put him on film.

though I have faith in Favreau enough to know he can pull it off without a hitch.

 

[Keyser Soze]

The impression I've gotten is that they are hesitant to go with anything relating to something that's supernatural, mystical, or magical for the movies. Favreau talked about building the world of the movie to be very real, practical, and tech based. So with Mandarin you are dealing with territory that's technically not feasible to the world Favreau has set up in the Iron Man movies. I guess its like the pro-Justice League/anti-Nolan Batman-verse people. Nolan's made a universe that apparently cannot co-exist with a new Justice League movie series or metahumans, Superman etc.

Except . . . Iron Man HAS to do this arbitrarily at some point. Making the rings a creation of science/technology is for all intents a betrayal to the Mandarin character. It seems like no coincidence to me that Mandarin's role if any will be small in Iron Man 2, and at that time Favreau will be stepping out of the director's chair.

The feeling I'm getting is that Favreau doesn't know how to incorporate these new elements into the movies so he wants someone else to do it.

I think with a character like The Mandarin, Favreau and co. have more scope to reinterpret him. I don't think there are too many hardcore Mandarin fans out there who'll be complaining if Iron Man 3 doesn't feature Fing Fang Foom, magical rings and lizard hands.

For the movie Mandarin, I'd say they could do worse than to draw some heavy influence from Keyser Soze. No, not me, the Usual Suspects villain. Someone who's so powerful, so high up, that people don't even know if he's real, yet his influence spirals out through everything and everyone. Build up enough dread and soul-destroying evil about his presence that he becomes an almost Satanic figure. I think Keyser Soze would indeed be a good template to draw inspiration from. Or, closer to home, draw some elements from the Mandarin's recent revival in the comic storyline "Haunted".

So yeah, character-wise, I don't see it as outwith the realm of possibility to incorporate The Mandarin into the movieverse. I think the bigger problem could be with casting. For films 1 and 2, Favreau has set the bar high for his villains. First Jeff Bridges, now Mickey Rourke. That's a skillful balance between big, recognisable names and undeniable acting talent. There's not a lot of Asian actors in Hollywood that can claim the same balance amongst American viewers. The Mandarin is supposed to be THE big deal amongst Iron Man villains, but if they don't get the right actor, following Jeff Bridges and Mickey Rourke whoever they cast could feel anti-climactic no matter how talented they are.

 

[kedrell]

^I completely agree, KS. Especially about the wrong actor being anti-climactic part.