How do you prefer Batman: Dark or Light?

[CConn]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, I was disagreeing with Frontier. To suggest that Batman isnt meant to be light is as closed minded as it is short sighted.

Perhaps I should've been more insulting.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Maybe I didn't make myself clear enough, I was disagreeing with Frontier. To suggest that Batman isnt meant to be light is as closed minded as it is short sighted.

Perhaps I should've been more insulting.

I thought that both of you had good points.

 

[CConn]

Yes, but our overarching arguments were quite contradictory.

His was that Batman is not meant to be light.

Mine is that he works just as well in both mediums.

 

[バット人]

Can't choose. I guess I prefer dark like most but I can still dig and appreciate light. There's so many interpretations and not one of them are really definitive. They kind of take this or that and make it their own.

If I had to choose ONE interpretation, it would be Batman: The Animated Series. That late 80s, early 90s era of the character is MY Batman. Things like Miller, Burton, and the Timm/Dini/Burnett/Radamoski team.

However, I could still pick up and read a pulp, noir 30s Batman and enjoy it or watch the 60s show and love the hell out of it as well. I'm not going to vote because while I prefer the darker interpretations, I think in any poll such as this I would simply be choosing which I feel is more definitive, and none of them are definitive.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Yes, but our overarching arguments were quite contradictory.

His was that Batman is not meant to be light.

Mine is that he works just as well in both mediums.

I think that Batman was meant to be dark, but he can be done light.

Can't choose. I guess I prefer dark like most but I can still dig and appreciate light. There's so many interpretations and not one of them are really definitive. They kind of take this or that and make it their own.

If I had to choose ONE interpretation, it would be Batman: The Animated Series. That late 80s, early 90s era of the character is MY Batman. Things like Miller, Burton, and the Timm/Dini/Burnett/Radamoski team.

However, I could still pick up and read a pulp, noir 30s Batman and enjoy it or watch the 60s show and love the hell out of it as well. I'm not going to vote because while I prefer the darker interpretations, I think in any poll such as this I would simply be choosing which I feel is more definitive, and none of them are definitive.

I find that, having grown up with Batman: The Animated Series, the Burton films, and the Schumacher films, I have no singular definitive Batman, but a wide variety.

 

[CConn]

If we're talking a singular interpretation, I'd have to go with the 70s comics, myself. They were a perfect mixture of light and dark. Batman would both walk around in the broad daylight offering a cheerful "g'day" to passers by, while threatening to shove knives down criminals' throats sideways at night.

 

[Cain]

Both; like the bronze age Batman or the Alan Grant Batman from the late 80's or the Brave & The Bold tv show best. I don't like the one dimensional grim dark Batman as much. The character is at his best when he's multifaceted. A balanced take is always better than a one sided take.

 

[バット人]

I think that Batman was meant to be dark, but he can be done light.



I find that, having grown up with Batman: The Animated Series, the Burton films, and the Schumacher films, I have no singular definitive Batman, but a wide variety.

Yeah, same for me as well. Even the different "dark" Batman stories have different shades of, well darkness in them. Something as "dark" as Year One could be considered "light" compared to The Dark Knight Returns or the Killing Joke. Likewise a BTAS episode like, I don't know, "The Joker's favor" is nothing compared to "I am the Night" in terms of darkness and they're from the same universe technically.

Eras and the films are even inconsistent in what is portrayed.

 

[Godzilla2014]

If we're talking a singular interpretation, I'd have to go with the 70s comics, myself. They were a perfect mixture of light and dark. Batman would both walk around in the broad daylight offering a cheerful "g'day" to passers by, while threatening to shove knives down criminals' throats sideways at night.

Both; like the bronze age Batman or the Alan Grant Batman from the late 80's or the Brave & The Bold tv show best. I don't like the one dimensional grim dark Batman as much. The character is at his best when he's multifaceted. A balanced take is always better than a one sided take.

I agree with posts. I like The Dark Knight Returns incarnation for what it's meant to be, but for a general Batman, I prefer a less sociopathic incarnation.

Yeah, same for me as well. Even the different "dark" Batman stories have different shades of, well darkness in them. Something as "dark" as Year One could be considered "light" compared to The Dark Knight Returns or the Killing Joke. Likewise a BTAS episode like, I don't know, "The Joker's favor" is nothing compared to "I am the Night" in terms of darkness and they're from the same universe technically.

Eras and the films are even inconsistent in what is portrayed.

Agreed.

 

[AnneFan]

I can't really imagine a character like Batman being light.

Especially when the basis for the character is rooted in the murder of his parents.

 

[CConn]

Especially when the basis for the character is rooted in the murder of his parents.

Read my post then.

 

[AnneFan]

Read my post then.

I did. Sure, he's presented as light in mediums, and it can be done in a fun way, but he works much better as a dark character for me.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I did. Sure, he's presented as light in mediums, and it can be done in a fun way, but he works much better as a dark character for me.

Agreed.

 

[CConn]

I did. Sure, he's presented as light in mediums, and it can be done in a fun way, but he works much better as a dark character for me.

That's not at all what you inferred in your last post, but sure, we can go with that.

 

[AnneFan]

That's not at all what you inferred in your last post, but sure, we can go with that.

Well, in my second post I stated that yes, he can be presented in a light way. And he has been, and some of it can be fun. Eg. Brave and the Bold. I can have a laugh and appreciate the nods and winks to the past, but at the end of the day that's not my vision of what Batman is. I stand by my statement that when you witness the murder of your parents at a young age, you're not going to be much of a light individual. I favour the dark, driven crusader.

 

[CConn]

...you're just repeating what you've already said for a third time. I got you the second time (since you didn't make sense the first time).

 

[SuperFerret]

I think they put too much emphasis on his parent's death.

 

[CConn]

I think they put too much emphasis on his parent's death.

A lot of comics - and even more fans - put too much emphasis on the negative aspects of it.

They view the event as inducing a horrible trauma and borderline psychosis that obsessively drives Bruce to fight his never ending war on crime. Which makes sense why those people thing Batman should be this inherently dark character.

Whereas, in the silver and bronze age, their deaths were more portrayed as simply the foundation for Bruce's sense of justice. It wasn't a psychosis that forced him to do anything, it was merely what instilled his morals and sense of right and wrong. Then, out of that, grew his desire to become Batman - much like normal people have the desire to become a cop or a fireman based on their moral value.

Viewed in that light, it's much less of a dark and emotionally damaging event.

As to what's more realistic psychologically, it's hard to say. I haven't known many people who have suffered the loss of a parent at a young age, but I have known many people who had suffered various emotional traumas as young children...and I would say - as awful as they were - none of them were strong enough to cause outright psychosis. I would probably say, the silver age view on their deaths is a bit more probable.

 

[jb007]

Dark like the early comics! Nolan has done an outstanding job of capturing that!

 

[SuperFerret]

What's funny is that he really hasn't. His Batman is more like more modern portrayals than the "early comics", which usually means that year or two before Robin was introduced where Batman was a gun-using, enemy killing, why plan when you can coast by the seat of your pants sort of guy.

 

[CConn]

Shh! Don't shatter the child's precious hopes and dreams.

What's next? Telling him there's no Santa Claus?

 

[バット人]

It all depends on how the moment of the murders are depicted.

If you have a Bruce that is just coming back from seeing Zorro, smiling and happy with his parents and you have this nameless thug pop out of no where saying the cliched "hand over all valuables, pal" and a Martha and Thomas Wayne that have pronounced that they've been shot, you just might have a smiling, light hearted, do-gooder Batman. Everyone would have a different reaction, perhaps Batman was just inspired to fight injustice by the death of his parents? It also depends on how Bruce is raised and whether he feels guilt or not. Some times it's by his uncle, sometimes it's by Alfred, some times there's no one. Some times he blames himself for their death, other times he doesn't.

Then again, what if you witness a brutal death. A psychotic, smiling man that shoots your father and mother in the head and you're left alone, in a pool of blood. You probably wouldn't be the same after that. Age has a lot to do with it as well. Sometimes Bruce is 8, sometimes Bruce is 10 or 12 etc. It just depends.

So no, seeing your parents die wouldn't definitely make you a "darker" character, especially if you're too young to really remember. Inspire, definitely, obsessed and filled with vengeance, not always.

Dark like the early comics! Nolan has done an outstanding job of capturing that!

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think Nolan's Batman is "dark" per se. His villains are, but his Bruce Wayne or Batman doesn't really strike me as a "dark" Batman. He certainly isn't light, but he's just not that, you know, typical dark Batman. He's not like the Miller, or Animated Batman, or the Burton Batman.

He's instilled with values and to him, Batman is a temporary thing, a tool he uses to inspire Gotham for good. The Nolan Batman isn't this dark, brooding, vigilante, filled with vengeance.

Going by what I described above, look at how his parents are killed in Nolan's interpretation. Before they're even murdered he's afraid and anxious. Thomas Wayne is always preaching to him about Gotham and goodness. Even when Thomas is laying on the ground dying he's telling Bruce that "it's okay, it's okay". Then, not only does he have Alfred to comfort him, he has Rachel as well.

So no, he's certainly not the grim, dark Batman that most people adore. To be that dark he would have to view the Batman persona as his own, dominant persona. In TDKR it looks like they're going to be moving even farther away from that, even going as far as having him fight out in the day light.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

While I prefer the dark version of Batman, I still get a kick out of him participating in a DCU version of Wacky Races, because it's still the same character. It's nice to have a variety of Batman stories, ranging from trying to solve a murder mystery to his cape turning into a jetpack.

 

[Godzilla2014]

A lot of comics - and even more fans - put too much emphasis on the negative aspects of it.

They view the event as inducing a horrible trauma and borderline psychosis that obsessively drives Bruce to fight his never ending war on crime. Which makes sense why those people thing Batman should be this inherently dark character.

Whereas, in the silver and bronze age, their deaths were more portrayed as simply the foundation for Bruce's sense of justice. It wasn't a psychosis that forced him to do anything, it was merely what instilled his morals and sense of right and wrong. Then, out of that, grew his desire to become Batman - much like normal people have the desire to become a cop or a fireman based on their moral value.

Viewed in that light, it's much less of a dark and emotionally damaging event.

As to what's more realistic psychologically, it's hard to say. I haven't known many people who have suffered the loss of a parent at a young age, but I have known many people who had suffered various emotional traumas as young children...and I would say - as awful as they were - none of them were strong enough to cause outright psychosis. I would probably say, the silver age view on their deaths is a bit more probable.

I think that Nolan's Batman views his parents' death in a light more similar to those Silver Age incarnations than the TDKR Frank Miller version or the B:TAS incarnation, interestingly.

 

[CConn]

I'd agree.

At the same time, Nolan interjected Bruce with more latent psychological issues than he's usually portrayed with as well.

Not that that's a bad thing necessarily.