How much influence do you think us fans had in creating X3?

[X-Maniac]

We had even talked on here about the scene where Jean removes Cyclops' visor... that ended up in there, albeit in a different sense... It's not an 'obvious' comicbook moment so I don't know if they'd otherwise have used it..

Also, we've discussed Storm on here and here backstory and deeper characterisation.

They may not have been able to act on concerns over the fate of Cyclops. That was decided at much higher levels.

Fox didn't seem at all bothered about doing an X3 until Bryan got fed up with the delays and jumped ship - then when Fox found out he had gone to a rival (Warner) to make a super-expensive movie from another comic publisher (DC) about an iconic hero...they woke up and did something about X3. If Bryan had stayed with Fox, we may never have got an X3. They just didn't seem bothered about doing one. Fox only opened its wallet and got itself out of bed and into work mode when they saw that they had driven Bryan away.

 

[CapBeerCino]

But that's really besides the point.

The thread asks the question "How much influence do you think us fans had?" Whether it's direct or indirect, the influence was definitely there...it was a big part of the equation. At least for Storm anyway (I'm not discounting Halle's influence as a factor--but it's not the sole factor).

how much fan influence would you say made a difference in the way Fox made X-Men 3?

I read it as direct influence on fox

 

[SCOTT&JEAN]

None. See Cyclops for example.

 

[JokerNick]

fans, influence, LOL, yeah right

no x-fan would have wanted this............

 

[RonStoppablefan]

Hmm I think they litsen to some fans. Take The Wolverine movie coming up, it sounds like they want to make it R-Rated, longer and give it better writers. If that's the case than maybe they are litsning to the fans a little bit.

 

[Robin91939]

Things that I wanted that did not happen (apparently):

-Cyclops to live on and become the leader of the team, after losing Jean and Xavier. This would make him the storng character he should be.
-A smaller role for Wolverine.
-Gambit
-Rogue to take Juggernaut's power and have super strength stay with her, also to have he gain the ability to fly.
-A Colossus vs. Juggernaut fight.
-The Sentinels to be sent in at the end of the film to take out all of the mutants in the final Battle, not just a training simulation.
-Toad and Sabertooth to return.
-Blob, Quick Silver, or Avalanche, instead of Quills and Archlight.
-Angel to be part of the team
-Cliff hanger ending hinting at Apokolypse and the next trillogy (that he was behind the "cure")

^So I'm gonna say...no, I was not heard. And I know that the majority of my wants were on the lists of others, so, as a whole we were not heard. But I'll still watch and probably like the movie for the story it has, but will always wonder what it could have been.

-R

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I said a considerable amount...

We wanted to see a Better Storm
We wanted to see Storm (as well as others) fly
We wanted a Iceman/Pyro Fight
We DIDN'T want Stacy X
We wanted Sentinels
We wanted the Danger Room

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Things that I wanted that did not happen (apparently):

-Cyclops to live on and become the leader of the team, after losing Jean and Xavier. This would make him the storng character he should be.-A smaller role for Wolverine.
-Gambit
-Rogue to take Juggernaut's power and have super strength stay with her, also to have he gain the ability to fly.
-A Colossus vs. Juggernaut fight.
-The Sentinels to be sent in at the end of the film to take out all of the mutants in the final Battle, not just a training simulation.
-Toad and Sabertooth to return.
-Blob, Quick Silver, or Avalanche, instead of Quills and Archlight.
-Angel to be part of the team
-Cliff hanger ending hinting at Apokolypse and the next trillogy (that he was behind the "cure")

^So I'm gonna say...no, I was not heard. And I know that the majority of my wants were on the lists of others, so, as a whole we were not heard. But I'll still watch and probably like the movie for the story it has, but will always wonder what it could have been.

-R

Don't rule those ones out yet...

 

[lordofthenerds]

Zero of course. I mean what would you expect from Rothman?

 

[ginny_weasley]

Zero.

Ok, so maybe they improved Storm, but only at the expense of grafting the role of leader from Cyke onto her. We got Danger Room and Sentinels - but only teases of them. We got Fire v. Ice - but I don't think they needed fan support to know that should have been in there.

They completely ignored the backlash after the AICN report when they should have treated it like a gift.

Rogue and Cyke get the shaft, despite their huge potential.

Aside from some indulgence with the Danger Room and Sentinel, I'd say the fans had NIL effect.

 

[Robin91939]

Don't rule those ones out yet...

I think we can.

-Cyclops is dead, and I'm beginning to accept it, although I don't like it.
-All reviews have said that Colossus and Juggernaut won't fight.
-Angel could get a costume at the end to join the team...fingers crossed.



I forgot to add this one: I wanted a relationship (brother/sister like) with Kitty and Piotr...also I wanted a Russian accent.

-R

 

[theJust]

the only way fans had an influence was comic book sales, and the fact the world went and saw the first two. so they kept making them to make money.
its hard to believe these days, that passion and responsibility to a story and its character drove anyone to make a movie over in hollywood land

 

[X-Maniac]

Zero.

Ok, so maybe they improved Storm, but only at the expense of grafting the role of leader from Cyke onto her.

Well, it's not leadership that makes Storm shine in this. That's very simplistic, and wrong. She has a voice, a stance, and a reason to be fighting the fight... She therefore fights with passion and conviction, because she believes in something.. That's what makes her stand out. The leadership aspect is really irrelevant to her, and not something that either she or the fans demanded.

We got Danger Room and Sentinels - but only teases of them.

Well, the DR is more than a tease.. The inclusion of a Sentinel is very debatable in a DR setting.. but they obviously aren't going to make any more X-movies or ever consider using Sentinels as a major threat, so it was that or nothing... I think the cost of the Sentinels is always going to be too prohibitive when you have so many other FX and so many top-notch actors to pay... X2 had to be rewritten completely when they couldn't budget the Sentinels...

We got Fire v. Ice - but I don't think they needed fan support to know that should have been in there.

Yep.. that's true enough

They completely ignored the backlash after the AICN report when they should have treated it like a gift.

I think Cyclops' fate was decided much earlier at much higher levels.

Rogue and Cyke get the shaft, despite their huge potential.

Well Rogue is arguably more characterised than her comicbook version. She has dilemmas, torments, choices rather than flying around punching down skyscrapers and shouting 'sugah'... Do we know her final fate? Some say she was cured, some say she wasn't... Will she be part of a future movie like the X-students' spin-off?

Aside from some indulgence with the Danger Room and Sentinel, I'd say the fans had NIL effect.

Less of an effect than you might want, but more than you realise.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Zero.

Ok, so maybe they improved Storm, but only at the expense of grafting the role of leader from Cyke onto her.

I'd say that Scott's role of leader (as well as Jean's "true love") got grafted onto Logan--not Storm.

 

[CapBeerCino]

They completely ignored the backlash after the AICN report when they should have treated it like a gift.

And that about sums it up.

 

[xwolverine2]

thats right....im the one that voted the top one!

wanna fight about it!!!

 

[ginny_weasley]

I think Cyclops' fate was decided much earlier at much higher levels.

O I totally agree.

But that still means fans got ignored - I don't think too many fans were asking for Cyke to take the backseat to a Wolverine/Jean storyline in X3 after seeing the events of X2. His fate should never have been determined this way in the first place. Singer set things up appropriately - all Fox had to do was take the helm.

 

[X-Maniac]

O I totally agree.

But that still means fans got ignored - I don't think too many fans were asking for Cyke to take the backseat to a Wolverine/Jean storyline in X3 after seeing the events of X2. His fate should never have been determined this way in the first place. Singer set things up appropriately - all Fox had to do was take the helm.

Except Bryan then went on to Warner, a rival to Fox, to direct a superhero movie from a rival comicbook publisher (DC)... and he took his creative team with him... then he asked James Marsden and also Shawn Ashmore (possibly others too) to come on board the Superman project.

Fox then woke up about X3... and politics came into play. This is about Warner vs Fox, and Fox being sour that Singer moved on and took creative people and an actor with him... It's all Fox's fault for not green-lighting X3 properly and forcing Bryan to take an alternative proposal... But they were left to clean up a mess they created, and they steamed ahead guns blazing with X3 almost like a counter-attack... Can't you just imagine the boardroom discussions when they found that Bryan Singer had gone... and gone to Warner.. and gone to direct a DC movie...and had taken his creative team and then secured James Marsden for SR.

That's a large part of it. The other part is Fox's insistence on Wolverine's prominence, which explains why Cyclops was pushed out of the way in X2. This isn't the first time it's happened - just look at how Cyke was treated in X2.

 

[fallenAngel]

I voted not nearly as much as expected because the Script review was blasted but has changed very little. But I think the writers/producers thought they were catering to fans quite a bit. They knew we wanted Sentinels for example. However, they didn't seem to understand that we wanted real ones.

I for one would rather have no sentinels, than a stupid Danger room one where we only see the head.

They were too preoccupied with trying to make sure there isn't any more X men movies, but if there are then they want as clean a slate as possible to avoid paying the actors higher wages. (as well as scheduling conflicts)

 

[ProfeZZor X]

They were too preoccupied with trying to make sure there isn't any more X men movies, but if there are then they want as clean a slate as possible to avoid paying the actors higher wages. (as well as scheduling conflicts)

I agree that they should start all over again, but not for some years. Just Like Batman Begins got a new start, they should do the same with X-Men. Only this time, take the source material and not make a "Hollywood formula" out of it. I understand Fox wants to add in elements that will appease all audiences, but there's somewhat of a love triangle in the very first issue of the 1963 (or whatever) X-book. There's action, a major villain, conflict, suspense, and comedy (courtesy of Iceman). What more can they ask for?

Unfortunately, they get these high-priced writers that claim to be big fans of the comic, when all they want is a paycheck out of the deal, and give their half-assed interpretation of how they perceive it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I'm gonna say "None at all"

The most requested new character: Gambit

Yes, Gambit was even more requested than Beast and Angel. Yet, look who makes the cut (and I don't want anyone taking that as Beast or Angel bashing... Beast is one of my favorite X-Men characters, and Angel is just as deserving to get his time in the spotlight. My point is, if you could make room for those 2, why not some for the guy who was more requested than them?)

We even get characters that I never saw anyone ask for; Kitty Pryde, Quill, Arclight.....

The biggest complaint about the AICN script review: Cyclops' death

The one thing we desperatley wanted to see changed... all the talk of the "major" script changes, and what were those "major" changes? Magneto marches across the Golden Gate Bridge onto Alcatraz in the 3rd act, instead of the 2nd. Meanwhile, unchanged from the early draft, is Cyclops vanishing like a fart in the wind.

Requested to kick some ass: Rogue

I love Rogue's portrayal in the film. I think a sassy, super strength, flying, invulnerable chick throwing tanks everywhere wouldn't work in the movies. And despite what some young kids who can't see beyond flying, throwing tanks, and green spandex say, her portrayal in the films as a young girl scared, utterly frightened of her powers, and wanting to be rid of them, is totally accurate to her character.

But with that said, Rogue fans deserve to see her kick some ass. One scene I envisioned is where she touches Juggernaut and takes his strength, and the 2 of them duke it out to a stalemate (since physically, he can't be beaten, and her with the same powers, can't be beaten). It would be a nice nod to Rogue's super strength powers in the comics, and give her fans something to cheer for.

But instead, what happens? She highly likely takes the cure. Comic Rogue would consider it, and probably get on that table to take it. But ultimatley, she'd realize who she truly is, and she'd reject the cure, and stand right alongside her X-Men bretheren to fight against it.

Continuity: Xavier Monologue and Cerebro Doors intro

Easy, EASY, continuity, right? You'd think. But instead, these guys wanna try to be slick, and put their own "stamp" on it, instead of just trying to be part of the team and keep everything nice and unified. *Sigh* This was the EASIEST thing to get right, and they seemingly ****ed that up too.

No, it is my impression of this film, that despite their talks to the contrary ("we've been great allies to the fan community"), this film was not made for the fans. If it was made for the fans, we wouldn't have a bastardized version of the Phoenix Saga, with Wolverine playing the role of Jean Grey's savior. We wouldn't see Wolverine as leader of the X-Men while Cyclops vanishes like a fart in the wind. We'd see Cyclops fighting until the end, never giving up on Jean Grey, he'd be the one leading the team to Alcatraz, and he'd probably stand face to face to Magneto and give him an eyeful.

If this film was made for the fans, we'd have Gambit as the 3rd party in the Bobby / Rogue love arc, not Kitty Pryde. And Rogue probably would have punched someone in the grill.

And if it was made for the fans, they would have respected continuity by opening the movie with an Xavier voice over, followed by a CGI intro sequence that leads us into the first scene through the Cerebro door eyepiece.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Don't rule those ones out yet...

TOB, as much as I want you to be right, can you tell me why we shouldn't rule out Cyclops being in the end of the film at all, let alone actually being a leader at the end?

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Because it's still a possibility.

But how is it a possibility?!

Every review that we've had has Cyclops dying off, and not coming back at the end of the movie.

I desperatley want Cyclops to live, as I feel that eliminating Cyclops and putting Wolverine in his role in the Phoenix Saga is the only bad thing going for this movie, but a really bad thing at that. I want nothing more than for Cyclops to, in the end, be the only one that can save Jean (no matter how many times

Spoiler

Wolverine apparently stabs Phoenix with his claws

), but there's just no evidence left to support that.

And I was one of the only people around who actually felt all the evidence was in favor of Cyclops troopering through until the final battle.

I ask, because I really want to feel optimistic about his fate once more, like I did in the past.

 

[josh8]

i think us fans had no influence at all. but at the same time, i dont expect us to have any influence at all.

i mean, we're fans, so they've already "got" the majority of us. they dont have to work really hard to reel us in. and this doesnt apply to just FOX. all the studios run the same way. i would only imagine that the independent studios do things a bit differently (like sin city).

the only concern they have is making sure the movies "break out". if they can succeed in that, they're golden.

look at the CINO movie. no fan could have possible wanted a catwoman movie to turn out like that. but it still made it all the way to the theater intact. although calling that an "intact" movie is generous.

 

[josh8]

as for my wants (although i guess i never made it known, so they wouldnt have heard them anyways, lol):

-cyclops and storm to have roles.
-gambit to be introduced as an adult, not a youngster.
-beast.
-real fights involving the team, not logan.
-dark phoenix


did not want:
-logan "the center of the universe".
-arclight, quills, callisto... and also did not want toad and sabretooth back. they were both played by horrible actors. although sabretooth is important in the comic lore.
-a lot of rogue. she already got the second biggest part in x1. time for others to get some plot. and her and bobby were annoying in x2. and she's not really rogue in any way that's close to the comic. but anna's all right, i suppose.

so i guess i got some but not a lot. the crappy choice of brotherhood members still preplexes me. maybe they didnt want a sausage fest and couldnt find good female members for the brotherhood. i'm just surprised about arclight instead of avalance. haha where's ricky when you need him?