The Dark Knight Rises How should the Gotham mob be used in Batman 3?

[TLH]

So, with Batman Begins we had Carmine Falcone, who ran illegal drug operations for those willing to pay, among other things. The mob scared everybody...nobody would dare cross them.

In The Dark Knight we had Salvatore Maroni, Gambol, and the Chechen (among others) who gave off your typical Michael Mann mob feel. Batman, Gordon, and Dent to took them on. The mob was faltering a bit...cops and lawyers weren't running scared like they used to.

So where does it go from here? Would you like to see Maroni return (or mentioned if he died in the car crash caused by Two-Face), or would you prefer a new mob boss from the comics of? (i.e., somebody from The Long Halloween)...or would you prefer *no* mob element whatsoever?

Yeah, I can get why somebody wouldn't want the mob in a third Batman -- it's been done twice and played itself out perfectly -- but it also wouldn't make sense for them to suddenly disappear. Gotham is still corrupt.

Opinions?

 

[chintai80]

i think the mob has been so severly weakened in wake of joker's actions that the only thing left for them to do is align themselves with the emerging 'freak' criminals.

most, if not all, of the mob heads are dead. the members are all scattered about. some mid-level guys will try to take over whatevers left. but lot of the criminals need work. and the new freak power structure could offer many opportunities for aggressive expansion!

but yea i do think u need to make a mention of maroni (i.e. news report:"after the death of maroni, the remaining members of the mob have split into various factions. some work for the cobblepott group. and others are under the sionis camp.")

 

[Wesley Dodds]

What freak power structure, though? scarecrow and the Joker are locked away and Two-FAce is dead (Face facts) they're gonna need to bring in a whole bunch more in the next film to form a power structure. The problems with that are:

1. Bringing in this many villains at once never works (Spiderman 3 comes to mind)

2. It's all a moot point anyway because Nolan thinks most of the classic batman bad guys are ridiculous.

 

[chintai80]

What freak power structure, though? scarecrow and the Joker are locked away and Two-FAce is dead (Face facts) they're gonna need to bring in a whole bunch more in the next film to form a power structure. The problems with that are:

1. Bringing in this many villains at once never works (Spiderman 3 comes to mind)

2. It's all a moot point anyway because Nolan thinks most of the classic batman bad guys are ridiculous.

That's up to the writers now on what villians they want to bring in.And its an idea i'm throwing in for this discussion. The end of begins talked about escalation and this is a running theme in many of the batman stories.

Throwing in multiple villians can work as long as it don't seem forced (batman begins had 3-5 villians...let's see...they are Falcone, Zsazc, Fake Ra's, Ra's, and Scarecrow).

also, when has nolan explicity said he thinks most of the classic bad guys are ridiculous?

 

[Compi716]

I'd like there not to be one "Mob," but rather gangs that work together, much in the way TDK had it. Except the only difference is that these should be "freak" mobs, run by Scarecrow and others. I'm thinking Black Mask, perhaps Scarface and the Ventriloquist, maybe even Penguin. Hell, why not throw some Bane in there for foreign flavor?

 

[Artistsean]

What I would like to see, and I haven't read anyone else's response so I hope I am not just repeating anyone,
what I want to see is that, like Gordon mentioned in the first film, things escilate.
Joker represented a response to the Batman. But the criminals were still pretty "normal" I would like to see the Mob, with the loss of all the other bosses, gets filled (at least the new bosses or the new boss) be like the Joker. Not that they look like freaks, but that they are monterous in their additude and personalities, and that they a mental and over the top and all that the Joker represented.

Let me see if I can explain myself better.
The Penguin, rises to power as the new crime lord in Gothem. representing how now even the crime bosses are like the Joker.

 

[Hole Shot]

1. Bringing in this many villains at once never works (Spiderman 3 comes to mind)

It's about execution. Spidey only had 2 villains. Batman Begins had Ra's, Scarecrow, Falcone and Ra's again. TDK had Scarecrow, Joker, Two-Face, Maroni and the rest of the mob. A multi-villain film works if you the story is designed for it.

Spidey 3 recycled that basic plot of the first two films and then just threw in Venom.

 

[The Guard]

I was thinking decent...like a real mob. You know, we might actually see them commit a crime that affects people, not just hear about how they've laundered their money.

 

[BobJM]

I want Maroni to return (confined to a wheelchair, perhaps?) and I want him to align himself with Penguin or another "freak" against Black Mask as he rises up the ranks in Gotham's underworld.

 

[Steyin]

Rupert Thorne; extend the mob corruption into more political/business sides perhaps.

That is all.

 

[The Major]

What freak power structure, though? scarecrow and the Joker are locked away and Two-FAce is dead (Face facts) they're gonna need to bring in a whole bunch more in the next film to form a power structure. The problems with that are:

1. Bringing in this many villains at once never works (Spiderman 3 comes to mind)

The idea is good, Spider-man 3 just executed it badly. Though that's not what could happen here. Nolan has shown he can successfully bring in small time players who could work for big villains. I have no doubt he could execute this plan.

Bane or Talia could bring the mobs under their power with force and bribery IMO. That way they get their own personal armies to control.

2. It's all a moot point anyway because Nolan thinks most of the classic batman bad guys are ridiculous.

He could use Black Mask.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

Good point... I'd LOVE Black Mask. Not so sure about Talia though, after the chaos of The Jokers rampage she might be a bit of a come down and the problem with Bane is that they'd have to change him so much he wouldnt even be that character anymore... So why bother?

 

[The Major]

Good point... I'd LOVE Black Mask.

Nolan has wanted to use him before. He was in an early draft of TDK IIRC.

Not so sure about Talia though, after the chaos of The Jokers rampage she might be a bit of a come down

You could say that about any villain that isn't Joker.

It's all about the execution. Talia has amazing potential in Nolan's universe.

and the problem with Bane is that they'd have to change him so much he wouldnt even be that character anymore... So why bother?

What would they have to change about Bane that he wouldn't be recognizable?

The biggest challenge would be finding an actor whose big enough for the role though Id be fine if they had to go with a slimmer shorter version if the actor is talented enough. The concept wouldn't be that difficult to adapt IMO.

 

[Wesley Dodds]

Well, considering Nolan thinks The Penguin(!) is too ridiculous to work in his Universe, i really cant see him warming to the idea of using a 300 pound, drug addicted heavy who likes to dress as a mexican wrestler...
Honestly, can you see Nolan bringing this to the screen?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/Bane_v2/Bane/Covers/Batman497.jpg

 

[Wesley Dodds]

Well, considering Nolan thinks The Penguin(!) is too ridiculous to work in his Universe, i really cant see him warming to the idea of using a 300 pound, drug addicted heavy who likes to dress as a mexican wrestler...
Honestly, can you see Nolan bringing this to the screen?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/Bane_v2/Bane/Covers/Batman497.jpg

 

[Mastodon123]

I thought the rumors of Black Mask being in an early draft were untrue?

 

[Rasputin911]

Why does everyone have such a hard-on for Black Mask? He doesn't have any originality. He's just a mix of Two-Face and Penguin from the comics. No flavor of his own, no memorable moments.

Nolan & co. could think of an original character much more intriguing than black mask.

Sorry to burst the bubble!

Anyway, i think the "conventional" mob should be extinct in Gotham, and the underworld should be ruled by freaks like everyone is saying. Riddler, Penguin, Ventriloquist, Croc, or even "oh so cool" Black Mask could make cameos but not really play a lead role in the story. They'd be there as part of Gotham's new scenery.

 

[chintai80]

that is pretty much what i had in mind, Rasputin.

 

[Hole Shot]

Well, considering Nolan thinks The Penguin(!) is too ridiculous to work in his Universe

I really want to believe Nolan said that based on ignorance of the character at the time he made that statement. And now that he spent more time digging into the mythos with his brother he's learned that Penguin can very much work in his world.

i really cant see him warming to the idea of using a 300 pound, drug addicted heavy who likes to dress as a mexican wrestler...

What? Who doesn't see those guys walking down the street everyday?

By the way, Nolan should take a look at The Smoking Gun's top 20 mugshots of 2008. If #16 and #9 and some of these other freaks can exist in real life then I'd say most of Batman's rogues can too.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2008/1217081mugyear1.html

 

[Laderlappen]

Have Alberto Falcone take over the family business a la Michael Corleone.

 

[:-}]

have penguin lead the mob and go from their

 

[namtaB]

Well, considering Nolan thinks The Penguin(!) is too ridiculous to work in his Universe, i really cant see him warming to the idea of using a 300 pound, drug addicted heavy who likes to dress as a mexican wrestler...
Honestly, can you see Nolan bringing this to the screen?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v474/Bane_v2/Bane/Covers/Batman497.jpg

It can work. He start out as Nacho Libre but after a tragic series of events he becomes Bane.

 

[Two-Face]

I like to see Rupert Thorne, I know he had a hand in creation of Two-Face in BTAS, Nolan could make him as mob trying to take over Gotham & Wayne Enterprises.

 

[COMPO]

I'd have the mob sort of dwindling and there being a gang war with all of them fighting over parts of Gotham using freaks to win the war with the freaks actually working to take over the mob. The middle men Dent put away should take over yet they have split, id have like gang names as well you know like Batman's been keeping track as each one has taken up bits of Gotham, but they are now small.

 

[iDannyR]

Let's bring them back, Let's see them try to get Control of Gotham since The Joker/Two Face/Scarecrow aren't a problem, I see in the Time Lapse between TDK and B3 the mob takes back control and a new freak criminal comes to power.