The Dark Knight Rises How should the Gotham mob be used in Batman 3?

[Rasputin911]

perhaps a huge gang war between the "freaks" and the old mob, and the main villain (penguin, riddler) comes along to lead the freaks? But it turns out he's got more on his mind than leading the underworld.

Just an idea

 

[protoctista]

I definately think the mob should be more volatile. They're weakened. They're desperate. That's the most dangerous state for organised criminals to be in. When organised crime is prosperous, there's generally a dark equilibrium - it's the power struggles that causes damage.

 

[COMPO]

yeah and they've kind of lost all their money with the joker burning it so they'd be struggling for money which means they'd be looking for some way of getting their money back, if tehy had Roman Sionis it would be cool if the mob was buying stock into the company to try to get their money back through legal and illegal means. Also, the need cheap imports and weapons so I think they'd go to the Penguin who is selling it to the highest bidder knowing they can't kill him cos they need him, so really the mob is dependant on other people to keep their businesses going, both freaks and future freaks.

 

[ronny]

The mob should be increasingly fractured between...

1. The Mafia. The remenants of the Falcone family are sparse to the point of being extinct, they have no strong leadership and are holed up most of the time.

2. The Penguin Mob. Oswald Cobblepot is a young go-getter who used to do hits for the mob, always working with his trick umbrellas. However, he's seen the emergance of various freaks and is simply trying to thrive in this chaotic world. People view him as a freak but he sees himself as a simple businessman.

3. Arnold Wesker, an example of the new breed of freaks taking control. He has a healthy sideline in hijackings. His gang lives in fear of him because all of his choices are dictated by a crude wooden puppet he brings out in meetings.

It's a nice balance I think.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

The new mob would likely be led by Penguin, or revived by Hush/Black Mask. If any of those characters aren't used, I don't see the mob returning.

 

[ronny]

Hush should never be used in film three. And he would never lead a mob.
Tommy Elliot first needs to be mentioned as a friend from Bruce's past, then introduced briefly, then given the role of Hush in a future film.
To do the character properly means creating the groundwork first.
Black Mask though, he could work. ****ing out Janus Cosmetics in exchange for the Mafia's help in humiliating Bruce Wayne.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Hush should never be used in film three. And he would never lead a mob.
Tommy Elliot first needs to be mentioned as a friend from Bruce's past, then introduced briefly, then given the role of Hush in a future film.
To do the character properly means creating the groundwork first.
Black Mask though, he could work. ****ing out Janus Cosmetics in exchange for the Mafia's help in humiliating Bruce Wayne.

I agree with the bold. However, despite not wanting to see him in the third film, I would not put it past Hush to revive the mob (I never said lead) to get after Bruce. That's his game: manipulation.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

I was thinking about this the other night, and I just remembered it... What if The Riddler had his own new mob, only this time, a mob of "freaks," so to speak.

The best comparison I could think of is Charles Manson.

For Batman 3 to be as heart-pounding as TDK was (and for The Riddler to be a more dangerous follow-up to The Joker), I think there needs to be more at stake than Bruce's identity. As we know, The Riddler doesn't kill, but I think alluding to a Charles Manson-type situation, it would not only stay true to The Riddler's moral while still twisting him into a much more dangerous, life-threatening adversary. In this case, Bruce's identity is on the line, but so is his city and the lives of its inhabitants. A situation in which one stake would be put against the other would probably create a damned good thriller of a movie.

The Riddler could have his own group of followers that do his bidding, which would leave The Riddler as nothing more than a conspirator with such loving followers that none of them would allow trace back to Edward.

Not only that, but if The Riddler is being manipulated by a higher power, much as he was in Hush's comics (only this time by... Bane, I think would be the best option), I think it would make the story even more twisted and maniacal.

 

[strider]

Im not a Riddler fan and I hope they dont bring him in the third. I dont think they will ;]. Id like to see 2 new mob powers rise but in different ways. Roman Sionis and Cobblepot - both make awesome mob bosses while at the same time represent a freak element, a result of the freak rise in TDK. At this point you can give Sionis and Cobblepot minor "freak" soldiers; Bane, Deadshot, Clayface, even Catwoman. Now, Im not suggesting they use all of these guys but maybe 1 or 2. You would have to re-do Clayface and Cats but Nolan is pro at that. :]

Sift the focus back to Batman/Bruce and maybe return to a more gridy view of Gotham like in Batman Begins.

 

[ronny]

I was thinking about this the other night, and I just remembered it... What if The Riddler had his own new mob, only this time, a mob of "freaks," so to speak.

I don't think that would work. The Riddler is not a man who inspires trust or any kind of loyalty. As we know, he is a coward, he doesn't kill. His men would work for him but would never respect him enough to be very dedicated.
Would you? After all, Riddler's so shady that he'd probably make a deal with the cops just to make things easier on himself.
This man is a step down from The Joker. There's no use in Nolan pretending otherwise, but this in itself can make the guy an interesting antagonist.
He's got something to proove but knows that his compulsion to leave clues will get him caught. His allies should know this too, but they go along for the money and (As The Riddler ascends) the glory of being with a winner.

 

[Cunning Stunts]

This man is a step down from The Joker. There's no use in Nolan pretending otherwise, but this in itself can make the guy an interesting antagonist.

I agree completely, but then again, so will every other villain be unless a damned good backstory and performance is put on.

The Riddler won't be cut directly from the comics if he's used, I can almost guarantee that.

I don't think that would work. The Riddler is not a man who inspires trust or any kind of loyalty. As we know, he is a coward, he doesn't kill. His men would work for him but would never respect him enough to be very dedicated.

Would you? After all, Riddler's so shady that he'd probably make a deal with the cops just to make things easier on himself.Would you?

Ever seen The Departed? That situation could very well work. A man with money and power, especially over the city's most powerful man, can buy off almost anyone with a decent enough chink in their moral "armor". Either that, or the types of freaks like Thomas Schiff was in TDK, who are too crazy to know better. We, as humans, are afraid of what we don't know. The Riddler would likely be a much more mysterious character in this instance than he is in the comics. Also, those working for him don't know what he's doing, nor does Gotham. They would fear him because he's everywhere, watching everything, using everybody. None of Gotham would know who he's got on his payroll, nor what these people are capable of.

He's got something to proove but knows that his compulsion to leave clues will get him caught. His allies should know this too, but they go along for the money and (As The Riddler ascends) the glory of being with a winner.

Again, as in The Departed, his arrogance and cowardice could be his downfall.

 

[Rasputin911]

Riddler should only be used as a rogue FBI agent/cop tracked with finding Bats, not a crime lord or jigsaw-type terrorist.

Black Mask, Penguin, Killer Croc, and Ventriloquist could all make cameo appearances, to show how freaks have taken control of the underworld, but i don't think their should be one glorious villain like there was in TDK with Joker, simply becuz none can match him.

The focus should be on Batman. Riddler and the coalition of freaks could be the villains.

 

[Hole Shot]

2. The Penguin Mob. Oswald Cobblepot is a young go-getter who used to do hits for the mob, always working with his trick umbrellas. However, he's seen the emergance of various freaks and is simply trying to thrive in this chaotic world. People view him as a freak but he sees himself as a simple businessman.

If Nolan actually brings Penguin to the screen, I'm pretty certain his umbrella arsenal go the same place as Joker's joy buzzer and squirting flower.

I could see him having an umbrella that can fire one round. But no fully automatic with helicopter capabilties.


As far as Gotham goes, I liked the use of all location shots in Chicago in TDK, but I'd like see a little more of the Begins Gotham brought back. Arkham, the Narrows, etc. Bring a little bit of the creepiness back, you know?

 

[Schlosser85]

I think you have to have some mob presence- they wouldn't just die with Maroni, The Chechen, and Gambol any more than they did with Carmine Falcone- but I think they should be severely weakened and it should complete what TDK began- the complete usurption and replacement of traditional mobsters by "freaks".

 

[Cunning Stunts]

Riddler should only be used as a rogue FBI agent/cop tracked with finding Bats, not a crime lord or jigsaw-type terrorist.

Black Mask, Penguin, Killer Croc, and Ventriloquist could all make cameo appearances, to show how freaks have taken control of the underworld, but i don't think their should be one glorious villain like there was in TDK with Joker, simply becuz none can match him.

The focus should be on Batman. Riddler and the coalition of freaks could be the villains.

According to you. This type of stuff is up to Nolan, I'm just offering suggestions to what could work, not what will happen.

A production team this good has pushed and is going to push the limits until they create something new without essentially destroying the old product. Rest assured, The Riddler will be the same.

 

[Alex Logan]

Have Alberto Falcone take over the family business a la Michael Corleone.

Pretty good idea, this kinda goes along with theme of the first two films.

Maybe he could put a hit on Batman for what he did to his papa.

 

[kid dropper]

Alright dammit thats it with this "riddler as a fed" garbage. Its an intriguing idea, but how on earth can you say thats the only capacity in which you will accept the character's presence.? It is an idea that originated in this forum, for that reason alone i assure you it will not see the light of day.Riddler screams to be the impetus for some classic Nolan mind****ery. You can bet your ass if and when he is adapted for the big screen Nolan will not have co-opted your little fed concept.Theres always a way to make these things new and interesting. Watch Nolan remind us of this for a third time. The man is a criminal. a random loser who used his brains and talents to become, what was it again? oh, a legendary criminal mastermind.Weve already been robbed of Two-Face's full career and legacy (im not complaining the character's arc worked beautifully for me)why have this happen to another rogue. Batman fights criminal geniuses. Many of them. Its been going on for 70 years.Its stays interesting because of their distinct personas, agendas and methods. Nigma slapped together a persona, and initiated a war of intelligence with Bats and the police with Gotham as the battlefield.He didnt enroll at ****ing Quantico. seriously.

 

[jwhitehouse]

Depends on the time frame. If it's in the 18 months that Dent promised the Mayor, it should be a freaks movie. After all, all the money launderers are gone. On the other hand, you can have one of the freaks (say, the Penguin, for instance) be the new money launderer and holding the mob by the noose.

I'd like it to be tied in tightly to events of TDK, and not just forget everything that happened.

 

[Rasputin911]

According to you. This type of stuff is up to Nolan, I'm just offering suggestions to what could work, not what will happen.

A production team this good has pushed and is going to push the limits until they create something new without essentially destroying the old product. Rest assured, The Riddler will be the same.

I said Should, not will. I was giving my opinion on the best way to use the character...geez.

But you rest assured, if they use the riddler, there will be drastic changes. Becuz in the comics, he's a complete weakling. Hardly threatening to Gotham or Batman at all. Which means they can make him more lethal, in which case he'd either be a rip-off of Joker or Jigsaw, or they can go with the Fed angle, which might work.

You're right, its all up to Nolan, but a bad idea is still a bad idea.

P.S. we're only talking about this because Heath is dead and Nolan decided to, frankly, waste Two-Face's potential. We have to deal with 2nd-string villains now.

 

[Rasputin911]

Alright dammit thats it with this "riddler as a fed" garbage. Its an intriguing idea, but how on earth can you say thats the only capacity in which you will accept the character's presence.? It is an idea that originated in this forum, for that reason alone i assure you it will not see the light of day.Riddler screams to be the impetus for some classic Nolan mind****ery. You can bet your ass if and when he is adapted for the big screen Nolan will not have co-opted your little fed concept.Theres always a way to make these things new and interesting. Watch Nolan remind us of this for a third time. The man is a criminal. a random loser who used his brains and talents to become, what was it again? oh, a legendary criminal mastermind.Weve already been robbed of Two-Face's full career and legacy (im not complaining the character's arc worked beautifully for me)why have this happen to another rogue. Batman fights criminal geniuses. Many of them. Its been going on for 70 years.Its stays interesting because of their distinct personas, agendas and methods. Nigma slapped together a persona, and initiated a war of intelligence with Bats and the police with Gotham as the battlefield.He didnt enroll at ****ing Quantico. seriously.

they made Two-Face into a vigilante, and Riddler is currently on the cops payroll in the comics, so it isn't a big stretch. seriously

 

[kid dropper]

He is not on the cops' payroll, he is running a private service. This reform came after years of failure as a supercriminal and amnesia brought on by trauma. It took that guy a long time to come around, and Two-Face's agenda was always tempered by some obsession with "justice". A spree of revenge killings against the ones who wronged him was always part of his story.

 

[namtaB]

The mob in its original form is wiped out. The power players Maroni, Gambol, Chechen are all dead. The Joker burned all their money, which in the novel he says "I'm only burning my half, of course your half will burn with it. Nothing to be done I'm afraid." But in the film when he says "everything burns" he looks over while saying it which I interpreted to mean he's telling his goons to burn everything. There will probably be various fractionalized crews still around committing petty crimes. But the mob as seen in Batman Begins and Dark Knight is gone. It makes sense since the new power players in Gotham will be the freaks.

 

[The Guard]

They've been going one mobster at a time. Now the mob is leaderless (I guess). The next logical step is for Councilman Rupert Thorne is to pick up the pieces and begin running a more political mob, calling for Batman's head since he's a public enemy now, etc. When he orders Gordon to hunt down Batman, there's your political drama on that end. I can't believe no one's mentioned this.

 

[Alex Logan]

Alright dammit thats it with this "riddler as a fed" garbage. Its an intriguing idea, but how on earth can you say thats the only capacity in which you will accept the character's presence.? It is an idea that originated in this forum, for that reason alone i assure you it will not see the light of day.Riddler screams to be the impetus for some classic Nolan mind****ery. You can bet your ass if and when he is adapted for the big screen Nolan will not have co-opted your little fed concept.Theres always a way to make these things new and interesting. Watch Nolan remind us of this for a third time. The man is a criminal. a random loser who used his brains and talents to become, what was it again? oh, a legendary criminal mastermind.Weve already been robbed of Two-Face's full career and legacy (im not complaining the character's arc worked beautifully for me)why have this happen to another rogue. Batman fights criminal geniuses. Many of them. Its been going on for 70 years.Its stays interesting because of their distinct personas, agendas and methods. Nigma slapped together a persona, and initiated a war of intelligence with Bats and the police with Gotham as the battlefield.He didnt enroll at ****ing Quantico. seriously.

It's not that bad of an idea, but you're right when you say there are many ways one could choose to portray Edward.

They've been going one mobster at a time. Now the mob is leaderless (I guess). The next logical step is for Councilman Rupert Thorne is to pick up the pieces and begin running a more political mob, calling for Batman's head since he's a public enemy now, etc. When he orders Gordon to hunt down Batman, there's your political drama on that end. I can't believe no one's mentioned this.

Your're right about that. It's not even a huge step to think the mob call in a speicalist to put a hit on Batman.

 

[MiniBond]

I don't think the mob should be used at all.....or maybe through little thieves that batman confronts and try to wipe out by helping financially poor sectors of Gotham