How to fix the DC Animated Original Universe

[Omegabat]

@OmegaBat look into the imdb ratings of the 8 films that came before Flashpoint Paradox if you're trying to make a stronger case here.

And I've been meaning to reply to some of your fixes.


People keep asking for this and it's really not doable without limiting the amount of films or prolonging the production. A good story can be told within that runtime anyways.


Unlike the previous run of movies where that's applicable, the movies within this canon have every right to maintain coherency by keeping the same voice actors. The movies outside of this canon do indeed change up the actors.


For better or for worse, these movies arguably have been original since they adapt so loosely.

Yeah but I'm not judging those pre-Flashpoint movies,I've already made it clear that they have taken a dive since Flashpoint.

I wouldn't mind longer movies after a longer wait,people will be more hungry for them and even I admit Bad Blood felt like a mandatory flick than an attempt at creating the best possible movie.

True but these new voices have been near unanimously slammed,I liked Sean Maher,Jeremy Sisto and Travis Willingham because they actually conveyed emotion but the rest of them are either annoying(Damian) or flat and uninspiring(O'Mara,every JL member save maybe Aquaman).

The mix up the stories approach doesn't really bother me but for many it seems problematic. People who liked Morrisons Batman & Robin and Rucka's Detective run are going to(and they are) crap on Bad Blood for not delivering everything that made those stories great. I know their objective wasn't to adapt them and run with their themes and message but apparently not everyone gets that. They're better off with original material that doesn't evoke any comparison and doesn't have to be held up to some standard that they're not even trying to reach.

 

[2kt09]

Yeah but I'm not judging those pre-Flashpoint movies,I've already made it clear that they have taken a dive since Flashpoint.

Just saying that if you use IMDB as a consensus among the GA/critics you'll notice that those pre-TDKR movies are rated very similar to what gets made now. There are even two below 7/10 movies to match with SoB and ToA.

I wouldn't mind longer movies after a longer wait,people will be more hungry for them and even I admit Bad Blood felt like a mandatory flick than an attempt at creating the best possible movie.

I see your point.

True but these new voices have been near unanimously slammed,I liked Sean Maher,Jeremy Sisto and Travis Willingham because they actually conveyed emotion but the rest of them are either annoying(Damian) or flat and uninspiring(O'Mara,every JL member save maybe Aquaman).

I only find that to be the case with O'Mara more often than not and Shemar Moore's Cyborg, though he can still pull off being a depressing wreck.
We lost the most fitting voice actors of this continuity in favor of fan-favorite celebs, Gina Torres and Nathan Filion, + some other celeb for Superman.
Damian's an annoying character with a flat voice direction (that kid has done better roles) and even worse writing.

The mix up the stories approach doesn't really bother me but for many it seems problematic. People who liked Morrisons Batman & Robin and Rucka's Detective run are going to(and they are) crap on Bad Blood for not delivering everything that made those stories great. I know their objective wasn't to adapt them and run with their themes and message but apparently not everyone gets that. They're better off with original material that doesn't evoke any comparison and doesn't have to be held up to some standard that they're not even trying to reach.

Originality is harder to do especially without the right writers to do them.
That's why a staff change is the first thing on my wishlist.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I'm quite happy with the DCAU right now, although I haven't had a chance to see BvR or Bad Blood yet. I certainly prefer the more realistic anatomical designs and detailed graphics to the simplistic animation that we've seen on TV. If there's a problem, it's that DC/WB is still relying too heavily on Batman and not exploring other heroes and their respective backdrops.

 

[az824]

I think most people have said what I think but i'll reiterate some points or support them.

I think the biggest problem is the BatGod. Obviously WB/DC are going to want Batman movies, which I guess I can get over, but the problem is that he's become a God, which is sad, because the whole point of Batman is that he's human. The best parts of Mask of the Phantasm is where he's not able to get away from the police and he's seeing himself go down before being rescued by Andrea. They've taken away the vulnerability of being human and therefore the reliability.

This problem is worsened by Damian, who is even worse of a BatGod. The fact that the kid got stabbed so many times but was till able to defeat Slade is just ludicrous that it just takes you away from everything. And I don't even want to watch JL v TT because I know that he's going to defeat the JL which is absolutely ridiculous.

Which brings me to another point, do they not have respect for these characters? Wonder Woman is an amazon warrior who is who knows how old and in the 52 a demigoddess. How am I suppose to find it even slightly plausible that she's going to be defeated by a child, even if he was trained by Ra's Al Ghul from birth? She was trained as well, she has superhuman abilities, she also has high intellect. It's just absolutely ridiculous. It shows me that they have no respect for the character.

Which brings me to another point, the designs. The designs for women are very unappealing. They're trying to be overly sexy by giving them huge boobs but decide to make their faces so masculine looking. They would look better if they gave them more feminine attributes like more eyelashes, redder lips and such to make them look beautiful. I would rather look at that than huge knockers. The reason people love Timm so much is because he understands this and combines both beautiful and sexy.

And going back to WW, what's with the design? It looks so complicated, it's not based off of the new 52 and it just looks downright awful. I actually tried to like it, but it just doesn't look like WW. And let's not mention her characterization.

And finally, they should focus on better story telling, instead of making a few characters badass gods (which get so ridiculous they totally fail to be badasses). I think others have gone over this.

Thats my 2 cents.

 

[The ?ion]

The only DCAU film I do not enjoy is Superman: Doomsday. Aside from that one film, I have enjoyed all of Warner Bros. DCAU projects. I saw Justice League: Gods and Monsters in Ballroom 20 at SDCC and came away from the experience quite impressed. Justice League War and Justice League Throne of Atlantis were also enjoyable.

It seems to me that those that dislike the New 52 era are less inclined to appreciate the films based on said era. I am a fan of the New 52 era, so I don't mind the films set in said period. The illustration quality is still top notch, the animation smooth, the voice acting strong. DCAU features, for me, have been consistent since their debut. In fact, I prefer many of these animated features to the live action work put forth by Disney/Marvel, Fox and even Warner Bros./DC.

 

[Batsfan1]

Which brings me to another point, the designs. The designs for women are very unappealing. They're trying to be overly sexy by giving them huge boobs but decide to make their faces so masculine looking. They would look better if they gave them more feminine attributes like more eyelashes, redder lips and such to make them look beautiful. I would rather look at that than huge knockers. The reason people love Timm so much is because he understands this and combines both beautiful and sexy.

A woman can have masculine features and be considered pretty by some. I don't know why you take issue with the boobs, but then say that the face isn't feminine enough. There seems to be contradicting point.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

 

[Decepticonus]

I think most people have said what I think but i'll reiterate some points or support them.

I think the biggest problem is the BatGod. Obviously WB/DC are going to want Batman movies, which I guess I can get over, but the problem is that he's become a God, which is sad, because the whole point of Batman is that he's human. The best parts of Mask of the Phantasm is where he's not able to get away from the police and he's seeing himself go down before being rescued by Andrea. They've taken away the vulnerability of being human and therefore the reliability.

Very true and it's stories like Batman: Year One and Batman: Earth-One I love cause how human he is, or Batman: Venom. In all of these he fails somehow. He comes out victorious but through much struggle.

The only DCAU film I do not enjoy is Superman: Doomsday. Aside from that one film, I have enjoyed all of Warner Bros. DCAU projects. I saw Justice League: Gods and Monsters in Ballroom 20 at SDCC and came away from the experience quite impressed. Justice League War and Justice League Throne of Atlantis were also enjoyable.

It seems to me that those that dislike the New 52 era are less inclined to appreciate the films based on said era. I am a fan of the New 52 era, so I don't mind the films set in said period. The illustration quality is still top notch, the animation smooth, the voice acting strong. DCAU features, for me, have been consistent since their debut. In fact, I prefer many of these animated features to the live action work put forth by Disney/Marvel, Fox and even Warner Bros./DC.

I agree on the New 52 bit and have enjoyed all the movies and yeah Doomsday was meh, didn't hate it but not a favorite, but not a Doomsday fan in general - character or the comic.

 

[az824]

A woman can have masculine features and be considered pretty by some. I don't know why you take issue with the boobs, but then say that the fcace isn't feminine enough. There seems to be contradicting point.

God bless you! God bless everyone!

I guess I'm just a face guy! Big boobs can be great, But I don't like a butterface.

 

[Lord]

I think they should have kept adapting famous storylines properly and should have tried going with that once spoken about idea of adapting scripts for Live-action films that were never made.

 

[Warhammer]

It took a few days but I finally watched Son of Batman, Batman vs Robin, and Bad Blood. I'm not too impressed. Though Damian is quite annoying, he's not the biggest gripe I have with this new DC Animation continuity. It's the stories in all of them. Is it because I'm not a New-52 reader? I don't know but I don't care for any of these stories. And after finishing up Batman: Bad Blood, a major plot point killed me. Why did [blackout]Talia Al Ghul have a sudden heel turn?[/blackout] It was out of left field and so disjointed from Son of Batman. That single-handedly killed the movie for me.

Post-The Flashpoint Paradox, the only DC Animated film I loved was Batman: Assault on Arkham. That film was fantastic.

 

[Decepticonus]

It took a few days but I finally watched Son of Batman, Batman vs Robin, and Bad Blood. I'm not too impressed. Though Damian is quite annoying, he's not the biggest gripe I have with this new DC Animation continuity. It's the stories in all of them. Is it because I'm not a New-52 reader? I don't know but I don't care for any of these stories. And after finishing up Batman: Bad Blood, a major plot point killed me. Why did [blackout]Talia Al Ghul have a sudden heel turn?[/blackout] It was out of left field and so disjointed from Son of Batman. That single-handedly killed the movie for me.

Post-The Flashpoint Paradox, the only DC Animated film I loved was Batman: Assault on Arkham. That film was fantastic.

1. I hear this among so many people - is it really the movie or do so many still hate Damian the character?

2. True, good point. I mean she did go... in the comics, but it made sense and was built-up a bit.

3. Arkham was great, but I liked Gods & Monsters as well.

 

[BlueLanternKal]

I'm kind of burned out on Batman and Robin (Damien) in this DCAU. And JL movies don't come out great because there's only 90 minutes to spread between 7 characters.

I'd go with JL "team-ups". A Trinity movie, a Flash/Green Lantern movie, a Cyborg/Shazam movie, a Batman/Superman, Superman/Wonder Woman, Green Arrow/Black Canary... ect ect.

Throw in some cameos here and there but focus on the 2-3 headliners and allow them to develop as characters and tell good stories.

Yeah, Batman sells. But featuring 2 or 3 A-listers in one team-up will sell about as well as Batman I think.

 

[2kt09]

featuring 2 or 3 A-listers in one team-up will sell about as well as Batman I think.

The guys in charge seem to think otherwise.

 

[The Joker]

The DCAU doesn't need to be 'fixed' because it's not broken. It's just had a bit of a slump in quality.

 

[dude stannis]

Yeah.... and we all want to get out of that slump.

 

[The Joker]

No way! Seriously? You mean people don't enjoy dips in quality?

 

[dude stannis]

How are you that basic? Getting out of that slump requires an uptick in quality. But given the nature of the releases, that uptick is not likely. They're happy with the system they have in place and it's a boken system.

 

[The Joker]

Because this is a basic simple topic. Where do you get the idea that because there's been a dip in quality the DCAU is now broken? Or that they're not aware their product has been slipping and they're not trying to improve it? Also no offense, but you're being Captain Obvious again. Obviously to get out of any kind of slump in quality an improvement is necessary. Did that really need to be pointed out any more than saying people aren't happy with the slide in quality?

Or maybe you thought I skipped every response in this thread, and just assumed everyone except the OP was happy

 

[batfreakforever]

No there hasn't been a dip. Some fans just !@#$ alot when they didn't get what they wanted which then they become very loud and vocal. That's the power of social media. The DCAU is already 6 movies in with this new continuity so they must be doing something right if they weren't they would scape it and restart it/rejig it. I own all and love them all but maybe that's because I haven't read some of the books they were INSPIRED by. These are not direct adaptions so they are bound to skip on a few things or more from the source material. People are so hung up on the source material so much that when the films don't include something from them that they cry foul. Look forward to the next few.

 

[az824]

Sorry to be nitpicky but why are we calling this DCAU? The DCAU title belongs to the Timm verse that includes BTAS, TNBA, JLU, etc. Or has that changed?

 

[dude stannis]

The DCAOU is the shared continuity from JL: War onwards.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Expand the choice of focus beyond Batman would be a start....

 

[BH/HHH]

Expand the choice of focus beyond Batman would be a start....

They can even use him in better ways to push other characters, taking a Brave and the Bold approach of team ups could really work (I don't mean have it be like BATB just the concept of a team up).

Another suggestion is make shorter films say 50-69 minutes and use the remaining 20 mins or so to make a shorter feature to sit alongside the main feature. People can point to the DC Showcase not been a big seller but that was them collated on a disc with a longer Supermam/Shazam feature. Having a Batman feature be one of the two would get the Batman name on the cover and be able to sell these other characters.

 

[Lantern Venom]

I saw the first DC animated film that wasn't particularly good: Son of Batman. Even the Dark Knight took a back seat to his ridiculous Gary Stu son in this one.

 

[BH/HHH]

That's a good point it's like these latest films Damien Wayne is the lead in them all. I'm not buying any until Killing Joke.