How would you Fix a character?

[The Question]

They've been building Tim up into the future Bruce Wayne for awhile now. No surprise that he's blossoming into that now.

Yeah, that's true. I guess I just kind of missed when he changed from a somewhat IT nerd/athlete to Batman 2: lectric boogaloo.

 

[fifthfiend]

Too easy. They have to live with their choices and reverse them in a believable, non-quick-fix way. Quick fixes only reinforce the kind of thinking that allows this stuff to happen.

"Sure, we'll try and replace Aquaman with a teenybopper! It's quite a risk, but hey, we can just retcon/reverse it with no trouble!"

The problem with that is every time they try to change things in some way that isn't a quick fix, it just ends up even stupider and ****tier than it was before.

I'm just saying, my personal philosophy of comic books is I want to do the absolute minimum of having to read ****ty comic books. I dearly wish they would learn how to look at their stupid mistakes and quickly fix them, instead of dredging them out for-freaking-ever for no particular good reason. Quick fixes mean they very quickly go back to writing good comics about enjoyable characters, instead of writing obnoxious characters in ****ty comics.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

The problem with that is every time they try to change things in some way that isn't a quick fix, it just ends up even stupider and ****tier than it was before.

I'm just saying, my personal philosophy of comic books is I want to do the absolute minimum of having to read ****ty comic books. I dearly wish they would learn how to look at their stupid mistakes and quickly fix them, instead of dredging them out for-freaking-ever for no particular good reason. Quick fixes mean they very quickly go back to writing good comics about enjoyable characters, instead of writing obnoxious characters in ****ty comics.

I liked the way Hal was brought back as Green Lantern, and his evil explained away. While it may smack of quickfixery, it respects established continuity. No prior issues are rendered irrelevant by it. It builds on existing history, instead of superceding it. That's all I'm asking for. Make it believable, make it consistent with prior continuity, and if you can't do those things, don't do it at all. Find the longer way around. You know what you get when you don't follow those rules?

Quesada's Marvel.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Catwoman - have the child Bruce's or no child at all. I think that the new arc is going to be wiped from continuity like Son of the Demon was.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Catwoman - have the child Bruce's or no child at all. I think that the new arc is going to be wiped from continuity like Son of the Demon was.

Agreed.

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

I would fix Superman's origin. Its like what Eart-2 Superman said how can he know who he is if he doesn't even know where he is from.

 

[Eros]

I would fix Superman's origin. Its like what Eart-2 Superman said how can he know who he is if he doesn't even know where he is from.

Because its not about where you came from, its about where you are going. Superman is the son of Martha and Jonathan Kent, he was born on the now destroyed planet krypton and sent here buy his bilogical parents. Thats all he needs and needed to know, everything he did afterwards is who he is.

 

[November Rain]

The only thing i would do is make batman a meta-human but only a slight one...

I would have the trauma of his parents death unable to have him sleep since that tragic night.

this at least gives him the crazy amount of time needed to fulfill all the required tasks and training he would need as the dark knight in the years leading up to him flying his cape and cowl...

as an adult it would also allow for him to undergo all bruce wayne's activities during the day while still being able to be the dark knight in the evenings without anyone being suspicious.

so his intelligence, detective skills and fighting ability wouldn't be affected by his meta-human state and there will be an added depth to the character of being traumatised and it having a lasting effect.

the batman could also be seen as a 'hobby' to keep him occupied at night time (along with the whole vengeance issue) and it could provide interesting conflict with his partners on how they can never be as good as bats simply because they aren't enough hours in the day to keep up the crazy pace he leads, but they pretty much manage to fit in sleeping somewhere. As well as a lust for physical confrontations since the only rest he does get is when he is knocked out.

a simple ability or unleashed trauma i feel could add many layers to an already great character. I sometimes wonder how this opportunity was missed in the first place.

 

[fifthfiend]

I liked the way Hal was brought back as Green Lantern, and his evil explained away. While it may smack of quickfixery, it respects established continuity. No prior issues are rendered irrelevant by it. It builds on existing history, instead of superceding it. That's all I'm asking for. Make it believable, make it consistent with prior continuity, and if you can't do those things, don't do it at all. Find the longer way around. You know what you get when you don't follow those rules?

Quesada's Marvel.

I'm saying, you can totally explain things in a believable way that respects established continuity, by having everybody who sucks turn out to be an evil Darkseid clone.

As far as Quesada's Marvel, it's not that they try to fix things the easy way, it's that they don't actually try to fix anything ever, they just break them more and more in increasingly stupid ways.

 

[sinewave]

The only thing i would do is make batman a meta-human but only a slight one...

I would have the trauma of his parents death unable to have him sleep since that tragic night.

this at least gives him the crazy amount of time needed to fulfill all the required tasks and training he would need as the dark knight in the years leading up to him flying his cape and cowl...

as an adult it would also allow for him to undergo all bruce wayne's activities during the day while still being able to be the dark knight in the evenings without anyone being suspicious.

so his intelligence, detective skills and fighting ability wouldn't be affected by his meta-human state and there will be an added depth to the character of being traumatised and it having a lasting effect.

the batman could also be seen as a 'hobby' to keep him occupied at night time (along with the whole vengeance issue) and it could provide interesting conflict with his partners on how they can never be as good as bats simply because they aren't enough hours in the day to keep up the crazy pace he leads, but they pretty much manage to fit in sleeping somewhere. As well as a lust for physical confrontations since the only rest he does get is when he is knocked out.

a simple ability or unleashed trauma i feel could add many layers to an already great character. I sometimes wonder how this opportunity was missed in the first place.

i think i read somewhere that batman is believed to be some sort of metahuman. it's like he's trained himself and honed his skills to the point of actually becoming a meta-level being.

 

[fifthfiend]

To be honest you know what I'd do if I had the chance, is depower everyone, universe-wide. Reset everything across the board back to somewhere in the range where super-heroics started out, back where lifting a car or taking a bullet and living were sort of a big deal. It sort of speaks to how far gone things are, where to be able to keep up with Superman and Wondie, Bats pretty much has to be considered some kind of super-human.

It'd be nice to have Superman rebuilt to put the emphasis back on the 'man', instead of him and everyone else being so absurdly hyper-powered any one of them would put a passel of Greek dieties to shame.

 

[yahman]

Id like to see a better Explanation for Superman’s powers :

I like the idea of him being depicted on a semi Comic level, beyond everyone else (Even Lanterns and Martians) as seen during the Crisis. But the Origins of his powers are just plain ******ed. In scientific terms he's an overly dense plant, that can miraculously fly. I hardly believe that the power to duplicate photosynthesis should have God- like beings quaking in their boots. IMO Hyper Dimensions, and string theory provide a suitable answer. Like the mice from Hitchhikers guide, imagine that Kryptonian’s are Pan Dimensional beings, that have the 3 Dimensional form of a humanoid (instead of a mouse). Extra dimensions provide a successful explanations for all of Superman’s powers, from flight to super strength and Durability. They also provide a valid account for the immense power source needed to duplicate various of his AMAZING feats.

See Notes below :

Its believed that Supes powers are derived from the absorption of Solar energy. I’m not convinced, the feats Supes regularly performs suggest an alternate but more powerful energy source. The absorption of Yellow Solar energy may be the key to unlocking this Meta ability.

All of Superman’s powers involve the conversion of Solar energy to meta ATP in the cells. The meta ATP is the source of Supes energy. Supes has extra organs in his body and organelles a bit like a cross between a chloroplast and a mitochondria. What the exact nature of the action of energy conversion as far as interim stages is, no one knows, although much has been theorised.

I theorise this photosynthetic process may kick start some form of matter to energy conversion. I.e. his food is converted to pure energy I.e. E=MC2. Imagine every time he eats, he’s consuming more energy than a nuclear megatons warhead.

Now its unlikely that this process can occur in his cells, as his molecules would be ‘annihilated’ by the energy conversion. I therefore theorise that his body maybe linked to a form of Hyper space (Another Dimension) such as the phantom zone. It is here that this matter to energy conversion may occur. Hyper Space could also explain his other abilities such as Flight, Heat Vision and ‘Super Breathe’. It would also incorporate the popular theory of tactile telekinesis.

Complexity is measured on how much energy a given amount of mass can manipulate. As we know the Kryptonian’s are second only to the New Gods and the Guardians in advancements in science. Its therefore probable to suggest that they found a way to give the Kryptonian cell the power of the Atom.

Maybe there’s an even greater energy source, Have any of you any ideas how Supes powers could be developed ?

 

[twylight]

Black Canary-

Bring JLA:YO back into continuity
Dump Sin
Make her a forefront character in JLA, playing up on the strengths she has as a practically unpowered superheroine.

 

[sinewave]

Black Canary-

Bring JLA:YO back into continuity
Dump Sin
Make her a forefront character in JLA, playing up on the strengths she has as a practically unpowered superheroine.

i'd like that too. it pissed me off when they retconned her out of being a founding member of the jla, like she's not worthy of that honor or something.

 

[twylight]

i'd like that too. it pissed me off when they retconned her out of being a founding member of the jla, like she's not worthy of that honor or something.

Like none of the founding members were 'worthy' of that honor. It shafted all of the characters in that book.

But Dinah most of all.

 

[November Rain]

i think i read somewhere that batman is believed to be some sort of metahuman. it's like he's trained himself and honed his skills to the point of actually becoming a meta-level being.

but it wouldn't cover my insomnia idea though...

ps, you me and everyone else is a fantastic movie

 

[droogiedroogie2]

The only thing i would do is make batman a meta-human but only a slight one...

Ah yes, take away the most interesting and intriguing part of the character. Are you, by chance, the little bird who whispered into Marvel's ear that Spider-Man should unmask?

I would have the trauma of his parents death unable to have him sleep since that tragic night.

You ARE a Marvel fan, aren't you! Yes, you are. Sorry, over here at DC we've had more than enough of your angst and anguish. You can keep it for awhile. It's pointless, completely lacking in realism, and detracting from story value.

this at least gives him the crazy amount of time needed to fulfill all the required tasks and training he would need as the dark knight in the years leading up to him flying his cape and cowl...

Read Blind Justice for an explanation of how he survives on so little sleep, and thusly has time for all that ****. Read Shaman, Year One, and the Zero Month issues for enlightenment on his training.

as an adult it would also allow for him to undergo all bruce wayne's activities during the day while still being able to be the dark knight in the evenings without anyone being suspicious.

He hasn't done those things in a long time, and people just think he's a recluse.

so his intelligence, detective skills and fighting ability wouldn't be affected by his meta-human state and there will be an added depth to the character of being traumatised and it having a lasting effect.

What? His metahuman ability is an inability to sleep at night? Wha...huh?

the batman could also be seen as a 'hobby' to keep him occupied at night time (along with the whole vengeance issue) and it could provide interesting conflict with his partners on how they can never be as good as bats simply because they aren't enough hours in the day to keep up the crazy pace he leads, but they pretty much manage to fit in sleeping somewhere. As well as a lust for physical confrontations since the only rest he does get is when he is knocked out.

I'm throwing up right now, just so you know. You'll be getting a bill for a ruined carpet.

"A HOBBY"????????? HE FIGHTS SO HE CAN GET KNOCKED OUT????? INTERESTING CONFLICT IS CHILDISH PETTY DISPUTES OVER WHO'S BETTER?????

a simple ability or unleashed trauma i feel could add many layers to an already great character. I sometimes wonder how this opportunity was missed in the first place.

Yeah, me too. God, it almost makes that AzBats decision palatable, compared to this.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

I'm saying, you can totally explain things in a believable way that respects established continuity, by having everybody who sucks turn out to be an evil Darkseid clone.

Would you really buy that? Like seriously?

As far as Quesada's Marvel, it's not that they try to fix things the easy way, it's that they don't actually try to fix anything ever, they just break them more and more in increasingly stupid ways.

Well, that's just unfair. I think they TRY to fix things...they just end up breaking them even further. They're like Lenny from Of Mice And Men that way.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

i think i read somewhere that batman is believed to be some sort of metahuman. it's like he's trained himself and honed his skills to the point of actually becoming a meta-level being.

You can't be a metahuman without a metagene or a mutation, or actually being from another planet. You don't train to become one.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

To be honest you know what I'd do if I had the chance, is depower everyone, universe-wide. Reset everything across the board back to somewhere in the range where super-heroics started out, back where lifting a car or taking a bullet and living were sort of a big deal. It sort of speaks to how far gone things are, where to be able to keep up with Superman and Wondie, Bats pretty much has to be considered some kind of super-human.

It'd be nice to have Superman rebuilt to put the emphasis back on the 'man', instead of him and everyone else being so absurdly hyper-powered any one of them would put a passel of Greek dieties to shame.

Um...minor requeset...can we stop calling Diana "Wondie"? For some reason it makes my stomach curdle. Kind of like the word for vagina that rhymes with "bunt." That word also makes me stomach curdle.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Id like to see a better Explanation for Superman’s powers :

I like the idea of him being depicted on a semi Comic level, beyond everyone else (Even Lanterns and Martians) as seen during the Crisis. But the Origins of his powers are just plain ******ed. In scientific terms he's an overly dense plant, that can miraculously fly. I hardly believe that the power to duplicate photosynthesis should have God- like beings quaking in their boots. IMO Hyper Dimensions, and string theory provide a suitable answer. Like the mice from Hitchhikers guide, imagine that Kryptonian’s are Pan Dimensional beings, that have the 3 Dimensional form of a humanoid (instead of a mouse). Extra dimensions provide a successful explanations for all of Superman’s powers, from flight to super strength and Durability. They also provide a valid account for the immense power source needed to duplicate various of his AMAZING feats.

See Notes below :

Its believed that Supes powers are derived from the absorption of Solar energy. I’m not convinced, the feats Supes regularly performs suggest an alternate but more powerful energy source. The absorption of Yellow Solar energy may be the key to unlocking this Meta ability.

All of Superman’s powers involve the conversion of Solar energy to meta ATP in the cells. The meta ATP is the source of Supes energy. Supes has extra organs in his body and organelles a bit like a cross between a chloroplast and a mitochondria. What the exact nature of the action of energy conversion as far as interim stages is, no one knows, although much has been theorised.

I theorise this photosynthetic process may kick start some form of matter to energy conversion. I.e. his food is converted to pure energy I.e. E=MC2. Imagine every time he eats, he’s consuming more energy than a nuclear megatons warhead.

Now its unlikely that this process can occur in his cells, as his molecules would be ‘annihilated’ by the energy conversion. I therefore theorise that his body maybe linked to a form of Hyper space (Another Dimension) such as the phantom zone. It is here that this matter to energy conversion may occur. Hyper Space could also explain his other abilities such as Flight, Heat Vision and ‘Super Breathe’. It would also incorporate the popular theory of tactile telekinesis.

Complexity is measured on how much energy a given amount of mass can manipulate. As we know the Kryptonian’s are second only to the New Gods and the Guardians in advancements in science. Its therefore probable to suggest that they found a way to give the Kryptonian cell the power of the Atom.

Maybe there’s an even greater energy source, Have any of you any ideas how Supes powers could be developed ?

Dude. It's a comic book. Fictional universes have their own scientific laws. Ever notice how in Star Wars, there's the slight problem of constant thrust for starships? Or how lasers make sounds in space, even though in space, no one can hear you scream? It's because the Star Wars universe has its own rules.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

i'd like that too. it pissed me off when they retconned her out of being a founding member of the jla, like she's not worthy of that honor or something.

Or maybe like she'd never actually BEEN a founding member of the JLA...? Like, originally? Go back and read your copy/scan of Brave and the Bold 28. The members are the Big Seven: Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, J'onn J'onzz, Green Lantern/Hal Jordan, and Flash/Barry Allen. DC has obviously been moving into a Silver Age Revisited (Now With More Realism!) mindset, so it makes sense that they might want the origin what it used to be. Which, unless I completely misread Justice League of America #0, is exactly what they've done.

 

[Darthphere]

Except she was, as seen in JLA Year One by Waid. Youre talking about stuff that went down Pre-Crisis.

 

[Kitsune]

The only thing i would do is make batman a meta-human but only a slight one...

I would have the trauma of his parents death unable to have him sleep since that tragic night.

this at least gives him the crazy amount of time needed to fulfill all the required tasks and training he would need as the dark knight in the years leading up to him flying his cape and cowl...

as an adult it would also allow for him to undergo all bruce wayne's activities during the day while still being able to be the dark knight in the evenings without anyone being suspicious.

so his intelligence, detective skills and fighting ability wouldn't be affected by his meta-human state and there will be an added depth to the character of being traumatised and it having a lasting effect.

the batman could also be seen as a 'hobby' to keep him occupied at night time (along with the whole vengeance issue) and it could provide interesting conflict with his partners on how they can never be as good as bats simply because they aren't enough hours in the day to keep up the crazy pace he leads, but they pretty much manage to fit in sleeping somewhere. As well as a lust for physical confrontations since the only rest he does get is when he is knocked out.

a simple ability or unleashed trauma i feel could add many layers to an already great character. I sometimes wonder how this opportunity was missed in the first place.

Nah, just have someone give him a some magic artifact or high tech device that gives him the equivalen of 8 hours of sleep in 5 minutes.

 

[sinewave]

but it wouldn't cover my insomnia idea though...

ps, you me and everyone else is a fantastic movie

no, it wouldn't. would his "meta-ness" fight back the insanity he would normally go through from a lack of sleep?

ps, yes it is.