How would you Fix a character?

[droogiedroogie2]

Except she was, as seen in JLA Year One by Waid. Youre talking about stuff that went down Pre-Crisis.

I know that. That's a presupposition of this conversation. What I'm saying is, DC is moving very purposefully in the direction of resurrecting the Silver Age and undoing many of the changes that Crisis caused. In the case of the Justice League, that means retconning the original Big Seven origin back into place, and it's not that offensive or surprising that they would do it. I, personally, prefer the Big Seven origin as a concept, although JLA Year One was a great story. I wish that DC hadn't felt such a compulsion to try and make their third-stringers so important after COIE, because that's mostly what they're having to undo now. JLA Year One could have been written about the Big Seven, if DC hadn't been ******ed.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Nah, just have someone give him a some magic artifact or high tech device that gives him the equivalen of 8 hours of sleep in 5 minutes.

Again, read Blind Justice. It mentions an Eastern technique of getting intense amounts of rest from low amounts of sleep.

 

[sinewave]

You can't be a metahuman without a metagene or a mutation, or actually being from another planet. You don't train to become one.

i thought everyone in the dcu had a metagene, but only people who somehow had theirs activated were considered to be "metahumans"?

 

[sinewave]

Except she was, as seen in JLA Year One by Waid. Youre talking about stuff that went down Pre-Crisis.

that's what i was referring to. i've never read brave and the bold so i wasn't aware of what droogie was talking about.

 

[Darthphere]

I know that. That's a presupposition of this conversation. What I'm saying is, DC is moving very purposefully in the direction of resurrecting the Silver Age and undoing many of the changes that Crisis caused. In the case of the Justice League, that means retconning the original Big Seven origin back into place, and it's not that offensive or surprising that they would do it. I, personally, prefer the Big Seven origin as a concept, although JLA Year One was a great story. I wish that DC hadn't felt such a compulsion to try and make their third-stringers so important after COIE, because that's mostly what they're having to undo now. JLA Year One could have been written about the Big Seven, if DC hadn't been ******ed.

Funny, since JLA Year One is revered by everyone. Sorry son, youre in the minority here.

 

[sinewave]

I know that. That's a presupposition of this conversation. What I'm saying is, DC is moving very purposefully in the direction of resurrecting the Silver Age and undoing many of the changes that Crisis caused. In the case of the Justice League, that means retconning the original Big Seven origin back into place, and it's not that offensive or surprising that they would do it. I, personally, prefer the Big Seven origin as a concept, although JLA Year One was a great story. I wish that DC hadn't felt such a compulsion to try and make their third-stringers so important after COIE, because that's mostly what they're having to undo now. JLA Year One could have been written about the Big Seven, if DC hadn't been ******ed.

but the only reason the big seven are popular is because they get all of the credit for being the pioneers of the dcu. i prefer having the little guy get some props once in a while. i'm bored with supes and ww being up front in everything. black canary is a great character and stripping her of the honor of being one of the founders of the jla seems like they're robbing her of some of the much needed glory. wonder is already popular without having to be a founder of the jla, why not let canary have her moment in the sun? she's never going to reach a-level status if they retcon her out of some of her major career accomplishments.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

i thought everyone in the dcu had a metagene, but only people who somehow had theirs activated were considered to be "metahumans"?

Wikipedia says it best:
"According to the storyline in Justice League of America (#4) by Grant Morrison, and the storylines in Martian Manhunter (#25 - 27) by John Ostrander, and Son of Vulcan (#5), the genetic potential for a future metagene was discovered in ancient human DNA by the White Martian race. The White Martians performed experiments on these primitive humans, changing the metagene. Due to their experimentations, they actually altered the destiny of the human race. Whereas before evolution would have eventually made mankind into a race of superhumans similar to the Daxamites and Kryptonians, now only a select few humans would be able to develop metahuman powers. As punishment for this, the group of renegades known as the Hyperclan was exiled to the Still Zone, a version of the Phantom Zone."

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Funny, since JLA Year One is revered by everyone. Sorry son, youre in the minority here.

I loved JLA Year One. But if DC hadn't felt some strange need to push peripheral characters to the forefront, they wouldn't need to retcon their retcons so much now! And they had to know that retconning the Big Seven out of the JLA's origin wouldn't stick forever. It just makes sense. That's why Morrison's JLA was the best run of the League.

 

[sinewave]

Wikipedia says it best:
"According to the storyline in Justice League of America (#4) by Grant Morrison, and the storylines in Martian Manhunter (#25 - 27) by John Ostrander, and Son of Vulcan (#5), the genetic potential for a future metagene was discovered in ancient human DNA by the White Martian race. The White Martians performed experiments on these primitive humans, changing the metagene. Due to their experimentations, they actually altered the destiny of the human race. Whereas before evolution would have eventually made mankind into a race of superhumans similar to the Daxamites and Kryptonians, now only a select few humans would be able to develop metahuman powers. As punishment for this, the group of renegades known as the Hyperclan was exiled to the Still Zone, a version of the Phantom Zone."

does that mean that not everyone has a metagene or that everyone does have them, but not all of them are active?

 

[sinewave]

I loved JLA Year One. But if DC hadn't felt some strange need to push peripheral characters to the forefront, they wouldn't need to retcon their retcons so much now! And they had to know that retconning the Big Seven out of the JLA's origin wouldn't stick forever. It just makes sense. That's why Morrison's JLA was the best run of the League.

i just wish they would have figured out a way to retcon it to keep people like black canary as founding members while also including wonder woman. supes and batman.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

but the only reason the big seven are popular is because they get all of the credit for being the pioneers of the dcu. i prefer having the little guy get some props once in a while. i'm bored with supes and ww being up front in everything. black canary is a great character and stripping her of the honor of being one of the founders of the jla seems like they're robbing her of some of the much needed glory. wonder is already popular without having to be a founder of the jla, why not let canary have her moment in the sun? she's never going to reach a-level status if they retcon her out of some of her major career accomplishments.

The Big Seven are popular, in large part, due to the fact that they founded the Justice League. It never made sense that someone like Canary helped to found the League. As I've noted before, you have to have peripheral characters! Not everybody can be a big star! Somebody has to be in the background, and somebody has to be in the background of the background, and so on.

Aside from all that, Canary, as a character, doesn't make sense for the League. She's been played, for two and a half decades, as a down-and-dirty, sneaky, fightin' machine, creating a matched pair with the Grell Green Arrow and a perfect fit for the Birds of Prey. Not so much for the League.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

does that mean that not everyone has a metagene or that everyone does have them, but not all of them are active?

Near as I can tell, it means not everyone has them. I may be wildly misreading something, but that's what it says to me. Everyone COULD have had metagenes before the White Martians messed with the genetics of humanity. Now metagenes occur sparingly, despite that tampering.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

i just wish they would have figured out a way to retcon it to keep people like black canary as founding members while also including wonder woman. supes and batman.

And that's your prerogative. I was just saying, she hasn't always been a founding member. That in and of itself was a retcon, and I don't think DC made a wise choice. The story was intensely awesome, but the cast of characters shouldn't have been what it was. They were trying too hard to shake things up.

 

[EricDra7en]

Continuity sucks. I'd like to see DC ACTUALLY reboot the DC universe and clear up continuity and retcons instead of the Infinite Crisis crap they stuck us with. I don't generally dislike much about the DCU, but I think they have some cleaning up to do.

As to how I'd fix a character, I'd make Nightwing one of DC's heavy hitters. He needs to take down a couple of MAJOR villains and become someone people turn to the way they turn to Batman or Superman. He should be the biggest non JLA hero they have.

 

[Kitsune]

Continuity sucks. I'd like to see DC ACTUALLY reboot the DC universe and clear up continuity and retcons instead of the Infinite Crisis crap they stuck us with. I don't generally dislike much about the DCU, but I think they have some cleaning up to do.

As to how I'd fix a character, I'd make Nightwing one of DC's heavy hitters. He needs to take down a couple of MAJOR villains and become someone people turn to the way they turn to Batman or Superman. He should be the biggest non JLA hero they have.

I started reading comics about the time Robin became Nightwing, so I agree with this. The DCU needs Dick.

 

[fifthfiend]

Lots and lots of Dick.

 

[juggster-rules]

There are a few, or more, characters out there that are having or have had a hard time keeping readers or being interesting.
Sometimes they get changed over and over again to try and make them interesting, by either changing the costume or the person behind the costume, or their back story.
For Example, Aquaman and so on.

How would you fix one of these characters so that they would be interesting and keep readers?

how would you fix a character ? by drawing it of course. t:

 

[Artistsean]

I think one major character who DC keeps retooling and changing is Aqua Man. I would make him have more clout, not more powerful necissarily but have more pressence and more respect.
While Earth has tons of heroes, the Ocean only has one or two. Mostly its just Aqua Man.
So I would play that up somehow.

There was this issue of wizard where they had three or four gay comic artists and writers redesign some heroes and villians, it was called Queer Eye for the Super Guy or something like that.
Many of their designs, the serious ones, were great. Like their redesign of Martian Manhunter or Aqua Man.
Anyone sees these?

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Continuity sucks. I'd like to see DC ACTUALLY reboot the DC universe and clear up continuity and retcons instead of the Infinite Crisis crap they stuck us with. I don't generally dislike much about the DCU, but I think they have some cleaning up to do.

As to how I'd fix a character, I'd make Nightwing one of DC's heavy hitters. He needs to take down a couple of MAJOR villains and become someone people turn to the way they turn to Batman or Superman. He should be the biggest non JLA hero they have.

No, J'onn should be, as long as he isn't in the League, which is ******ed.

Reboots are lazy, and show a lack of interest in actually working to make things better. That's why the Ultimate and All-Star lines are bull****.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

I think one major character who DC keeps retooling and changing is Aqua Man. I would make him have more clout, not more powerful necissarily but have more pressence and more respect.
While Earth has tons of heroes, the Ocean only has one or two. Mostly its just Aqua Man.
So I would play that up somehow.

There was this issue of wizard where they had three or four gay comic artists and writers redesign some heroes and villians, it was called Queer Eye for the Super Guy or something like that.
Many of their designs, the serious ones, were great. Like their redesign of Martian Manhunter or Aqua Man.
Anyone sees these?

Aquaman, all they need to do with him, is make him the real Aquaman again. Most of the other stuff you mentioned, that's already been done, it's just that nobody notices. I mean, he is a king, so he gets respect.

 

[EricDra7en]

I think there's probably room to make Nightwing and J'onn both heavy hitters, but whatever. I think J'onn has become a fairly heavy hitter regardless of whether he's in the JLA. Red Tornado is shaping up to be a big gun due to his recent addition to the League.

I agree that the Ultimates line and All Star lines suck majorly. However, I'd have to say that reboots are anything but lazy. I think with all the different 'ages' of the DCU they could totally stand to reboot - just not the way it's been done in the past. The Ulimate line sucks IMO because they just decided to essentially start a 'what if' universe and add twists and turns to 'shock' fans of the originals. I think they should have updated the books to modern times, gotten rid of the stupid stuff, kept the essentials and expanded upon the good. My 2 cents.

 

[Artistsean]

Aquaman, all they need to do with him, is make him the real Aquaman again. Most of the other stuff you mentioned, that's already been done, it's just that nobody notices. I mean, he is a king, so he gets respect.

No one notices because they don't play it up enough.

 

[TalonTheater]

I know a lot (a LOT) of people are distraught over the "let's make Cassandra Cain evil" thing that's been going on. From what I've read of her material, it doesn't make sense.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

No one notices because they don't play it up enough.

They play it up more than enough in his solo book. And they played it up well enough when he was in JLA. But never very much in company-wide crossovers. Take Infinite Crisis, where Atlantis is barely mentioned in the mainline books/minis/specials, and when it is, we see Tempest more than we see Aquaman.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

I know a lot (a LOT) of people are distraught over the "let's make Cassandra Cain evil" thing that's been going on. From what I've read of her material, it doesn't make sense.

Well, what happened at the end of the Batgirl book was kinda ****ed up, if you had to live through it. Maybe that's enough to drive her off the deep end. In her defense, now that she's evil, she is totally batf\ck insane. Insanity usually contributes to villainy, in comic books.

15 years later...

"Batgirl: Rebirth"
After becoming a villain and nearly destroying...well...parts of Gotham City, maybe, but certainly not the universe...anyway, after nearly destroying important things, dying to save the same important things, and being redeemed as the new Ragman, the Junior Spirit of Vengeance, Cassandra Cain realizes that she can no longer control the Junior Spirit of Vengeance and make it a Junior Spirit of Redemption. Fighting to get free, she supplants the current Batgirl, who's been doing a fine job by the way, and doesn't deserve to get booted out like this, to reclaim her spot as the number-one Batgirl. The Batgirl she replaces goes on to do something semi-successful, like embody the power of the Guardians or something. Oh, and Cassandra punches Batman for no reason at all. But don't worry, it's cool. He gets her back in issue 9 of her new book, and it's a way cooler punch.