Playstation Insomniac's Wolverine

[DarthSkywalker]

if they confirm that he's meant to be 5'3" despite looking so, then I'll cut them some slack and concede some more.

So his actual height does not matter. Just the number they say it is.

they would just have to design him with a bodybuilder's physique in a shorter stature. such people also exist in real life, which means it would be realistic without compromising on bodily proportions.

Show me the real life human beings built like this.

I didn't misconstrue what you said. you literally said my reason for not wanting to waste money on this game is "wild" because of this personal issue. it is emotional for me as a short man who has been bullied, humiliated, and ridiculed for being short. a lot of short men have. I'm not sure if you can relate, maybe you can.

What you said at the beginning of this post emphasizes why it's wild to me. You don't seem concerned with Logan's actual height. But what they say it is. You seem to be looking for validation in a number associated with a fictional character.

I haven't personally cared about my height since I was 14 and realized I'd probably never play in the NBA. As for bullying, I went through it. I learned how to be cutting back. And how to fight.

I read what you wrote above, and I replied accordingly. Insomniac is plenty capable of designing the character to be 5'3" if they saw fit.

So if they didn't see fit, it's probably for a good reason then.

"I mean" this is a whataboutism that is completely irrelevant since Logan was originally meant to be seen as short, not extremely tall. his original height was supposed to be relatable to short men.

It's not a whataboutism. It's pointing out that you bringing up real world stigma only applies to what you care about.

I disagree. if Insomniac wished to, they could have pulled off a comic accurate height Wolverine in their Ps5 game without coming off as ridiculous.

you didn't write "no one else cares" verbatim but the meaning of what you're saying is still the same. I expected this from Insomniac because most fictional characters aren't below average height and we had a chance here to get a mainstream version of one such character who was.

you can call it an ax to grind, but all I'm doing is voting with my wallet and not wasting money on this game.

So now you are translating my words. Cool.

Tell me why the vast majority of things, from comics to video games, never protray Logan as 5'3? This includes X-Men 97, which you cited as accurate. Then example why his canonical height matters when no one uses it.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

So his actual height does not matter. Just the number they say it is.

I said that I'll cut them some slack. don't push it.

Show me the real life human beings built like this.

I don't think it'd be appropriate for me to post personal pictures of 5'3" bodybuilders, but if you watched the trailer for this game, was the vibe you got that no real life human being can be built like that?

What you said at the beginning of this post emphasizes why it's wild to me.

how can that be? you said my take was wild before I even started responding to you; before I even told you that Insomniac confirming his height matters too.

You don't seem concerned with Logan's actual height.

my very first post in this thread was my reaction to watching the trailer, and perceiving his design to be as a man taller than 5'3" and voicing my disappointment over said design. if that doesn't tell you my concern with his actual height, then I don't what else to tell you.

But what they say it is. You seem to be looking for validation in a number associated with a fictional character.

yes, I would feel better about it if Insomniac confirms their Wolverine is supposed to be shorter than average. then I could at least chalk it up to what has been said previously about his height and the inconsistency in depicting him compared to taller or even shorter characters in previous cartoons or in the comics.

So if they didn't see fit, it's probably for a good reason then.

I disagree. just like how they recast their Peter Parker for what seems like no good reason, them not making their Logan shorter was probably just coming down to them not thinking it was important; it was even suggested in the thread how influential Huge Jackman's version of Wolverine has become.

It's not a whataboutism.

yes it is. I know you are well versed in engaging in political debates. I'm complaining about a character who was known almost on an iconic level for being short, as a short man myself in real life that recognizes that most of the time people like me don't get representation in entertainment. your rebuttal was "well what about tall people that get also get bullied...?" - not in those words, but that was your rebuttal.

It's pointing out that you bringing up real world stigma only applies to what you care about.

yes, because this is a thread about a video game starring a character based on a comic book character known for being 5'3". as a short man myself, seeing a new mainstream version of him with a more comic accurate height after nearly 20 years of the most recognizable version of him being practically a foot taller, was something I was looking forward to. it's relevant here and that's why I decided to post my disappointment. what is the problem with that?

So now you are translating my words. Cool.

you claim not to be condescending but when you talk to me like this, it really feels that way. if I'm wrong or I misunderstood you, then just clarify. we've gone back and forth this long.

Tell me why the vast majority of things, from comics to video games, never protray Logan as 5'3? This includes X-Men 97, which you cited as accurate. Then example why his canonical height matters when no one uses it.

didn't I already concede on this point of the inconsistency of his height in '97? why are you bringing this up again now?

 

[lenz]

The way I see it is this: Insomniac had one job. All I wanted was a new mainstream take on Wolverine with this accurate height, finally showing some representation for short men. Alas, I guess that was just too complicated, too much to ask for.

I agree with @lenz in criticizing Insomniac over the past, for me because I’m never gonna get over the fact that they recast their Spider-Man. I was pleasantly surprised to see the OG’s actor’s face play a cameo in Across the Spider-Verse, but I refuse to spend money on their second and third Spider-Man games because of the recast.

Yeah, the recasting was really dumb. The first game was a classic and made a huge impact with many people. They grew attached to that actor and he was a great Peter Parker. Even worse they recast him with an actor who looks younger than Morales, even though he's supposed to be the older mentor...Completely changed the dynamic and didn't feel as authentic. The excuse they made for doing it was silly and that put a mark on Spider-Man 2 for me. I didn't end up buying the game but I recently played it and really enjoyed it. It's not on the level of the first game and I am not a huge fan of what they did with Venom or the overall story, but the game is still a solid 7.5 for me. The first one was a 9+.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I said that I'll cut them some slack. don't push it.

I don't think it'd be appropriate for me to post personal pictures of 5'3" bodybuilders, but if you watched the trailer for this game, was the vibe you got that no real life human being can be built like that?

how can that be? you said my take was wild before I even started responding to you; before I even told you that Insomniac confirming his height matters too.

my very first post in this thread was my reaction to watching the trailer, and perceiving his design to be as a man taller than 5'3" and voicing my disappointment over said design. if that doesn't tell you my concern with his actual height, then I don't what else to tell you.

yes, I would feel better about it if Insomniac confirms their Wolverine is supposed to be shorter than average. then I could at least chalk it up to what has been said previously about his height and the inconsistency in depicting him compared to taller or even shorter characters in previous cartoons or in the comics.

I disagree. just like how they recast their Peter Parker for what seems like no good reason, them not making their Logan shorter was probably just coming down to them not thinking it was important; it was even suggested in the thread how influential Huge Jackman's version of Wolverine has become.

yes it is. I know you are well versed in engaging in political debates. I'm complaining about a character who was known almost on an iconic level for being short, as a short man myself in real life that recognizes that most of the time people like me don't get representation in entertainment. your rebuttal was "well what about tall people that get also get bullied...?" - not in those words, but that was your rebuttal.

yes, because this is a thread about a video game starring a character based on a comic book character known for being 5'3". as a short man myself, seeing a new mainstream version of him with a more comic accurate height after nearly 20 years of the most recognizable version of him being practically a foot taller, was something I was looking forward to. it's relevant here and that's why I decided to post my disappointment. what is the problem with that?

you claim not to be condescending but when you talk to me like this, it really feels that way. if I'm wrong or I misunderstood you, then just clarify. we've gone back and forth this long.

didn't I already concede on this point of the inconsistency of his height in '97? why are you bringing this up again now?

I'm not going to respond to every point. By doing so, you seem to keep missing my point. So I'm going to focus the conversation.

Your complaint about this game, is that Logan isn't 5'3. It's such a problem for you, that you do not want to play the game. You do not apply this to anything else, including X-Men 97. Because if you did, using this litmus test, you would not consume any Wolverine comics, shows, movies, or games. The only place I can think of at the moment where he's genuinely super short and still clearly not 5'3, is MvC2.

He is almost never 5'3. You keep saying, "canon says", while ignoring that even those who make the comics don't make him that height. So I'm asking, for someone who says it's a dealbreaker, why is this where your line is drawn? What did Insomniac do that is so much worse then everyone else, including comic book artists? Because from what I can see, they are in line with canon Wolverine 95% of the time. Short, but not that short.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

I'm not going to respond to every point.

you know you're not obligated to respond to me at all.

By doing so, you seem to keep missing my point. So I'm going to focus the conversation.

you've made several points, but I'm guessing the main you're focusing on is that if I'm accepting of Wolverine's inconsistent height compared to other characters he's onscreen/on panels with, then I should be accepting of height not being prioritized for Insomniac's game. can we agree on that?

You do not apply this to anything else, including X-Men 97. Because if you did, using this litmus test, you would not consume any Wolverine comics, shows, movies, or games. The only place I can think of at the moment where he's genuinely super short and still clearly not 5'3, is MvC2.

I have not read that many comics, but his official height is 5'3" there. as far as TV shows go, I watched the old X-Men cartoon as a kid and watched 97 just coz Disney got me with the nostalgia. I think the reason why I'm not so hung up on Logan's height there is because it's not a Wolverine show, it's an X-Men show. he's not front and center there; he's part of an ensemble cast.

Insomniac's game on the other hand, is a Wolverine game with him front and center. I have not played a whole lot of other Marvel games, MvC2 included, but what attracted me to the idea of having a solo Logan Ps5 game was the chance to have a new mainstream version of a character who was originally 5'3". this version of Logan is sure to be even more popular than Logan in '97 too.

video game development is different from animated productions. it doesn't take someone working at Insomniac to know that. the character model they use for Logan remains consistent; at least the height and build of the character does. that's fundamentally different from animation studios who back in the day had to hand draw everything, and even now go probably have to go frame by frame in several instances. I've said all of this before, to reinforce how I'm more understanding of Logan having an inconsistent height compared to taller and shorter characters in within animation like in '97.

as a side note, I didn't even like '97 that much and I said above, I canceled my Disney+ subscription, so I won't be tuning into a '97 season 2 anyway if there will even be one.

as for not consuming any Wolverine content in movies, well, I was a kid when the first X-Men movie came out and grew up seeing the one & only Hugh Jackman portray him on screen. Jackman is a legendary actor and his role as Wolverine is probably what he's most famous for, and it's been brought up a few times now that his version may have had an influence on Insomniac's Logan too.

however, in hindsight, I suggested that if Stephen Graham played Logan back in 2000, then the disparity in the perception of his height might have never happened. and I think Graham would've been great as Wolverine. I think everyone would alternatively be saying things like "I can only see Stephen Graham playing Wolverine" just like how people say exactly that about Hugh Jackman.

He is almost never 5'3.

I think what you mean is that he almost never looks 5'3". I asked you for a source to backup your claim refuting mine, and you never delivered. so for all intents and purposes, the character in his most original form, is 5'3" whether he appears to be exactly that height or not.

You keep saying, "canon says", while ignoring that even those who make the comics don't make him that height.

no dude, I never ignored it - I addressed it every single time, even in this post when I said that artists have to hand draw everything, especially the older comics. they wanted to depict him as shorter, and they definitely got that image across while also firmly establishing that he's supposed to be 5'3". personally, I think that's fine.

So I'm asking, for someone who says it's a dealbreaker, why is this where your line is drawn? What did Insomniac do that is so much worse then everyone else, including comic book artists? Because from what I can see, they are in line with canon Wolverine 95% of the time. Short, but not that short.

I've answered all this too. but I'll reiterate.

Insomniac's video game is putting Logan front and center; it's a Wolverine game, not an X-Men game. I believe this version of Logan is sure to become very mainstream in pop culture; still second to Hugh Jackman's Wolverine, and surpassing Logan in '97.

Insomniac appears to be using the same or a similar graphics engine to their Spider-Man series, therefore the character model of Logan will have a consistent height and build seeing as how they're aiming for photorealism. this is fundamentally different from hand drawn comic book panels or frame by frame television animation (I think '97 even has a proportionally much lower budget than this Ps5 game) where the artists aim to make Logan appear 5'3" but won't always perfectly appear so.

Insomniac's version of Logan doesn't seem like he's meant to be 5'3". this could be due to them not being able to pull off making the character model shorter in contrast to the environments he'd be traversing as well as gameplay interactions, but right now, it seems to me that capturing his comic accurate height wasn't a priority for them.

if the consensus is that this version of Logan appears 5'8", then he's average by the world's standards and not short at all.