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Comics Interviews by Wacker and JMS

Not to get all theological, but since a marriage is a solemn vow to God, God deciding to take it away from Pete & MJ does not make sense.
Well its not like hes saying "Hey you guys are not gonna be married anymore", he gives them a choice and warns them that with every action there comes a consequence, even for a god.
 
Well its not like hes saying "Hey you guys are not gonna be married anymore", he gives them a choice and warns them that with every action there comes a consequence, even for a god.

True. But I was talking more along the lines of "Hey you guys are not gonna be married anymore." But, either way, it doesn't seem like something God would do. But it does sound like something Loki would do ...

Funny thing, didn't Spidey run into God just before OMD? I actually thought for a moment he was going to be the literal deus ex machina character (fixing the whole situation with unmasked & Aunt May, not play Let's Make A Deal with the marriage).
 
Yea it was the last issue of Sensational before the OMD issue.
 
Themanofbat, I know the purpose was to bring about a single Pete. I was bringing up that it was a very clumsy apparent agenda driven story. It is the only way to explain the logic of what happens in it.

However, I don't agree that Spider-Man has to be single. Spider-Man was suppose to be how a real person would be if they were a superhero. That is the essence of Spider-Man, not being single. The character is also based on one who grows. He becomes a superhero because he grows, having learned a hard lesson from the death of Uncle Ben. The character grows. He graduates high school. He goes to college. He loses his first real love. He finds love again. He marries. Marriage is NOT an end. We are NOT looking for him to walk off into the sunset. Marriage offers its own unique problems, which apparently, Marvel writers just can't see. The bad stories that have come were not because of the marriage. The bad stories were just bad stories. Now, the two worst storylines in Spider-Man's history (Clone Saga & OMD) are the result of trying to get rid of a marriage that no one seemed to have a problem with!

All good points... ones that I wouldn't necessarily disagree with...

However, while I want to see Peter grow, my personal opinion of the essense of Peter Parker is a man who will always keep trying no matter how many times life kicks him in the nads...

We see this in the older stories... no matter how much he tries, no matter how much good he does as Spdier-Man, his life as Peter Parker stinks... yet he keeps fighting the good fight... he never gives up, and always tries to do good even if he knows things will result badly for Peter Parker, because he puts the world in front of his own needs... and in Marvel's point of view, how can things be that terrible if he has a wife to go home to at the end of every story?

While we will see him date (and maybe develop serious relations) women, as unfortunate as it is for me to type this statement, Peter Parker is meant to be alone, because he is the ultimate bad luck guy... yet he keeps trying, and those are the kinds of lessons that taught me not to give up in my own life against my own personal demons, and it's those values that I want my kid(s) to learn as they grow older and read Spider-Man, and I would hope that it's these same lessons that everybody wants to take from reading Spider-Man.

No matter how many times life punches you in the face, always get up and face life, despite the fact that you know you're going to get punched again.

Thank you Peter Parker, for teaching that lesson to me.

:yay:
 
All good points... ones that I wouldn't necessarily disagree with...

However, while I want to see Peter grow, my personal opinion of the essense of Peter Parker is a man who will always keep trying no matter how many times life kicks him in the nads...

We see this in the older stories... no matter how much he tries, no matter how much good he does as Spdier-Man, his life as Peter Parker stinks... yet he keeps fighting the good fight... he never gives up, and always tries to do good even if he knows things will result badly for Peter Parker, because he puts the world in front of his own needs... and in Marvel's point of view, how can things be that terrible if he has a wife to go home to at the end of every story?

While we will see him date (and maybe develop serious relations) women, as unfortunate as it is for me to type this statement, Peter Parker is meant to be alone, because he is the ultimate bad luck guy... yet he keeps trying, and those are the kinds of lessons that taught me not to give up in my own life against my own personal demons, and it's those values that I want my kid(s) to learn as they grow older and read Spider-Man, and I would hope that it's these same lessons that everybody wants to take from reading Spider-Man.

No matter how many times life punches you in the face, always get up and face life, despite the fact that you know you're going to get punched again.

Thank you Peter Parker, for teaching that lesson to me.

:yay:

On some level, TMOB, you can still achieve this even if you have Spider-Man married to Mary Jane. Maybe, there are times when he gets home, expecting MJ to be there, but she's asleep, or she's gone on a late night shoot, or she's mad at him for getting home late. Or maybe he gets too tired and doesn't feel like talking, and THAT upsets MJ. Maybe you can't or shouldn't have it happen all the time, just as you shouldn't have him come home to a happy wife all the time.

However, I do agree that Spider-Man, as a character, does work conceptually better if he's not only single but also as a teenage superhero. Spider-Man has always, at it's core, have been a series of coming of age stories with responsibility as it's central theme. Yes, Spider-Man being married didn't detract, or shouldn't have detracted, from the characters central theme, in that being married offers all kinds of possibilities to explore new responsibilities and new life making decisions. Same goes with the idea of him being an ordinary guy trying to live his life just like anyone else despite the fact he has superpowers and a genius IQ. Yet when Spider-Man is roughly between the ages of 16 and 21, then the theme of responsibility and "everyman" that is essential to the character gets underscored, because it's about the character learning what it means to actually be a responsible human being, about what it actually means to make "grown-up" decisions, and what being an adult is really all about. And that can only be effectively achieved if Spider-Man is a "teenage superhero," when he's progressing from boyhood to manhood. It's not totally impossible with a married Spider-Man, but it's certainly much clearer. Whether you can, or should, make him go back to that is a totally different issue.
 
All good points... ones that I wouldn't necessarily disagree with...

However, while I want to see Peter grow, my personal opinion of the essense of Peter Parker is a man who will always keep trying no matter how many times life kicks him in the nads...

We see this in the older stories... no matter how much he tries, no matter how much good he does as Spdier-Man, his life as Peter Parker stinks... yet he keeps fighting the good fight... he never gives up, and always tries to do good even if he knows things will result badly for Peter Parker, because he puts the world in front of his own needs... and in Marvel's point of view, how can things be that terrible if he has a wife to go home to at the end of every story?

While we will see him date (and maybe develop serious relations) women, as unfortunate as it is for me to type this statement, Peter Parker is meant to be alone, because he is the ultimate bad luck guy... yet he keeps trying, and those are the kinds of lessons that taught me not to give up in my own life against my own personal demons, and it's those values that I want my kid(s) to learn as they grow older and read Spider-Man, and I would hope that it's these same lessons that everybody wants to take from reading Spider-Man.

No matter how many times life punches you in the face, always get up and face life, despite the fact that you know you're going to get punched again.

Thank you Peter Parker, for teaching that lesson to me.

:yay:

Very good points. I do agree with you on the essence of the character. But, I still disagree on the marriage. Having a great wife does not mean everything is great.

stillanerd makes a few good points on this:

stillanerd said:
On some level, TMOB, you can still achieve this even if you have Spider-Man married to Mary Jane. Maybe, there are times when he gets home, expecting MJ to be there, but she's asleep, or she's gone on a late night shoot, or she's mad at him for getting home late. Or maybe he gets too tired and doesn't feel like talking, and THAT upsets MJ. Maybe you can't or shouldn't have it happen all the time, just as you shouldn't have him come home to a happy wife all the time.

Not to mention the strain on a marriage when one is constantly fighting super villains. You know more than one anniversary has to be ruined.

I'm just saying Pete & MJ got married. It should be dealt with in an adult fashion. Heck, I was looking forward to the baby as well. May would have almost timed up with my first child (talk about relating to character). However, I do understand the limitations with adding children to a timeline.
 
Marvel wants to copy a formula for writing Spidey.
It's lazy writing. TMOB is right, and I think that's why we all love the character. but there were so many ways to prolong Spidey without cleaning the slate. If anything Marvel has taken away ALOT of the characters responsibility which is supposed to be his core .
 
I think the real bottom line is this: Marvel wants Peter Parker to be forever young and youthful. You cant really get that while he's married. When Peter was married we saw a more mature, conflicted and emotionally damaged character that was beautifully portrayed through the efforts of writers like J.M. Dematteis and JMS. One of my favorite arcs of all time was during the 90's when Spiderman was going through his dark "I am the Spider " phase. Spidey still retained his trademark humor and quips but he acted more grown up and mature. Marvel doesnt want that. They want a silly, goofy, youthful spiderman much like Bendis' Ultimate creation. They want Spiderman to say lines like "Worst slumber party ever" and " Oh yay! Ninjas!". Come on! Does spidey really need to be saying lines like that. That may be fien for Ultimate spidey because he's a kid, but 616 spidey is in his mid-twenties, his humor should be more sarcastic and witty instead of silly and annoying. I do like Dan Slott's portrayal of him though, he strikes a perfect balance between seriousness and humor for spidey. Marc Guggenheim on the other hand....

Even though I love the humor aspect of spiderman, i love him most when he's in his darker, more mature phases and i know i'm not alone in thinking this. The sales on JMS' run prove that. Some of spidey's best stories were his darkest: "Death of the Goblin", " Kraven's last hunt", "Coming Home", the "I am the Spider" arc, heck who here didnt enjoy when Peter nearly killed the kingpin last summer without breaking a sweat?

Peter Parker's not a kid anymore, nothing can change that, but marvel feels that if they eliminate the marriage then they can make Peter seem like he's a kid without actually being one...sheesh. lol
 
Marvel is trying too hard, and with a dopey not thoght out reboot world we're stuck with now, they turned Pete into ARCHIE or CHarlie Brown.

Pete is Peter Parker, not Peter Pan.

some sort of slowly prorated progression is good and has been for ALL THESE years SO FAR.

Now they've regressed him, and put a box around him.

"Ultimate Archie Parker Stagnated Spider-Man" is what we've got now.

:woot::csad:

They've somehow made it VERY tough for me to relate to this NEW guy i've ALWAYS realated to.
 
I think the real bottom line is this: Marvel wants Peter Parker to be forever young and youthful. You cant really get that while he's married. When Peter was married we saw a more mature, conflicted and emotionally damaged character that was beautifully portrayed through the efforts of writers like J.M. Dematteis and JMS. One of my favorite arcs of all time was during the 90's when Spiderman was going through his dark "I am the Spider " phase. Spidey still retained his trademark humor and quips but he acted more grown up and mature. Marvel doesnt want that. They want a silly, goofy, youthful spiderman much like Bendis' Ultimate creation. They want Spiderman to say lines like "Worst slumber party ever" and " Oh yay! Ninjas!". Come on! Does spidey really need to be saying lines like that. That may be fien for Ultimate spidey because he's a kid, but 616 spidey is in his mid-twenties, his humor should be more sarcastic and witty instead of silly and annoying. I do like Dan Slott's portrayal of him though, he strikes a perfect balance between seriousness and humor for spidey. Marc Guggenheim on the other hand....

Even though I love the humor aspect of spiderman, i love him most when he's in his darker, more mature phases and i know i'm not alone in thinking this. The sales on JMS' run prove that. Some of spidey's best stories were his darkest: "Death of the Goblin", " Kraven's last hunt", "Coming Home", the "I am the Spider" arc, heck who here didnt enjoy when Peter nearly killed the kingpin last summer without breaking a sweat?

Peter Parker's not a kid anymore, nothing can change that, but marvel feels that if they eliminate the marriage then they can make Peter seem like he's a kid without actually being one...sheesh. lol

OK, first, I have to say, the "I Am the Spider," which followed the horrible return of his parents is my personal "Jump the Shark" for Spider-Man. Before this we had classic Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita, death of Gwen & Goblin, the Ross Andru era, original clone story, Hobgoblin mystery, Black Cat, gang war, black costume, wedding, Venom, Kraven's Last Hunt. Then the whole I am the spider, just felt like jumping on the whole dark gritty Dark Knight thing of the day. That's fine for Batman, not Spider-Man. I felt there were no quips during this arc.

Since then, we've gotten the Clone Saga, Gathering of the Five, reboot, blow up MJ, separate Pete & MJ, magic origin, Sins Past, the Other, turning into a giant spider (again!), unmasking, OMD, BND. Not that there weren't some good things sprinkled in there, but it seems I find more enjoyable stories pre-I Am the Spider than post.

Sorry for the side track. And yes. I like my Spidey making jokes durning battles like "Worst slumber party ever" and " Oh yay! Ninjas!" That was one of the things that attracted me to the character when I first watched the 60's cartoon and what is really missing in the Spider-Man movies. I think the problem with these lines in New Avengers was it was running currently with Back In Black and it made no sense that Spidey was even taking place in these adventures considering what was happening in his books.

What this boils down to, is I enjoy the funny Spidey even when the chips are down. I also like mature when the plot calls for it (death of Gwen for example). But, just because he is married, it doesn't mean he has to act so mature as to not crack jokes. And the marriage does not make the character responsible. Uncle Ben (& Aunt May) did when raising him. So, since responsibility is essential to Pete's character, marriage it totally logical.
 
Marvel is trying too hard, and with a dopey not thoght out reboot world we're stuck with now, they turned Pete into ARCHIE or CHarlie Brown.

Pete is Peter Parker, not Peter Pan.

some sort of slowly prorated progression is good and has been for ALL THESE years SO FAR.

Now they've regressed him, and put a box around him.

"Ultimate Archie Parker Stagnated Spider-Man" is what we've got now.

:woot::csad:

They've somehow made it VERY tough for me to relate to this NEW guy i've ALWAYS realated to.

Joe Q once said Spider-Man should be like Charlie Brown.

And what's the matter, farmernudie? You can't relate to making deals with the Devil so that you were never married to your wife?
 
Originally posted by Spider-Gnome

OK, first, I have to say, the "I Am the Spider," which followed the horrible return of his parents is my personal "Jump the Shark" for Spider-Man. Before this we had classic Lee/Ditko and Lee/Romita, death of Gwen & Goblin, the Ross Andru era, original clone story, Hobgoblin mystery, Black Cat, gang war, black costume, wedding, Venom, Kraven's Last Hunt. Then the whole I am the spider, just felt like jumping on the whole dark gritty Dark Knight thing of the day. That's fine for Batman, not Spider-Man. I felt there were no quips during this arc.

Since then, we've gotten the Clone Saga, Gathering of the Five, reboot, blow up MJ, separate Pete & MJ, magic origin, Sins Past, the Other, turning into a giant spider (again!), unmasking, OMD, BND. Not that there weren't some good things sprinkled in there, but it seems I find more enjoyable stories pre-I Am the Spider than post.

Sorry for the side track. And yes. I like my Spidey making jokes durning battles like "Worst slumber party ever" and " Oh yay! Ninjas!" That was one of the things that attracted me to the character when I first watched the 60's cartoon and what is really missing in the Spider-Man movies. I think the problem with these lines in New Avengers was it was running currently with Back In Black and it made no sense that Spidey was even taking place in these adventures considering what was happening in his books.

What this boils down to, is I enjoy the funny Spidey even when the chips are down. I also like mature when the plot calls for it (death of Gwen for example). But, just because he is married, it doesn't mean he has to act so mature as to not crack jokes. And the marriage does not make the character responsible. Uncle Ben (& Aunt May) did when raising him. So, since responsibility is essential to Pete's character, marriage it totally logical.

Ok i can agree with that. I think it really just boils down to taste and what kind of Spidey u grew up reading. I grew up during the 90's so i guess i'm used to a more adult spiderman. I love how spiderman is able to laugh and joke in the face of danger its just that with some of these new writers it seems like they dont know how to balance out spidey's serioussness with his humor. Dan Slott and JMS found a perfect balance while people like Guggenheim, Gale and Bendis just write spidey like an immature idiot....in my opinion. I like it when Spidey's witty and sarcastic rather than silly and goofy. But i guess its all just a matter of taste.
 
Ok i can agree with that. I think it really just boils down to taste and what kind of Spidey u grew up reading. I grew up during the 90's so i guess i'm used to a more adult spiderman. I love how spiderman is able to laugh and joke in the face of danger its just that with some of these new writers it seems like they dont know how to balance out spidey's serioussness with his humor. Dan Slott and JMS found a perfect balance while people like Guggenheim, Gale and Bendis just write spidey like an immature idiot....in my opinion. I like it when Spidey's witty and sarcastic rather than silly and goofy. But i guess its all just a matter of taste.

Yes, I prefer witty and sarcastic as well. Sometimes his jokes are groaners, too. It also depends on who's writing. I agree that these BND writers are missing it. I even said, Pete didn't even act this bad in the 70's, which it seems like they want to emulate. I do like Bendis, but it does work better in Ultimate (high school Pete). I think in New Avengers, he just likes putting on the others who act all serious. (Again note it was a bit out of context with the Back In Black business)
 
I really don't see how having a great wife makes your life so perfect that it takes the parkour luck out of the equation. In my mind, MJ was the carrot and life was the stick for peter parker. Considering how difficult life is for him, having something nice to come home to after the lizard tears your stomach open isn't a bed of roses, just a light at the end of the tunnel. Also as responsiblity is kinda a thing for the character (well it used to be) having someone else only increases this factor. Rather than "oh, no if I'm unmasked by this villian my life will be ruined" which would suck but is ultimately egocentric you had "If I'm unmasked the kingpin will kill my wife" which is far more heroic. Rather than pete just fighting to help and survive he had a reason to come home. If batman can have millions and beat anyone with ten secs of prep and superman can have the power to have all the powers, his own private oasis and super everything, I don't see why spider-man having one decent thing in his life upsets the apple cart.

As pointed out, the worst spider-man stories have come from these forced changes OMD, Sins Past, the clone saga. Shouldn't that tell you something, besides the fact that marvel has tried and failed repeatedly to undo the marriage. Hell they've killed and seperated them a bunch of times recently, why didn't they just let one of those stick? You can't say, it's because JMS wanted to bring MJ back in the series, cause we know if Joey Q wanted it done, JMS would have done it. The problem came from a horrific story, that teamed up Spider-Man with Satan to **** the world over, especially the people Peter claims to love the most.

And to follow up that literary masterpiece what do we have? A pete that's more a tard than ever. He doesn't just run out of web fluid, he now has no concept of web fluid. He doesn't just have bad luck, now he can't even catch a junkie or some gymnastic chick without looking like a fool. He doesn't just make a few bad personal choices, now he's all about the money to the point of being a pappo. Not one story that couldn't have worked before and we've had over a year of issues, no questions answered, nothing new really. Well there are the new characters, yeah. Vin's constant whining and selfrighteous attitude is certianly a breath of freash air, I hope he gets a spinoff. Jackpot beating down a combination of the sinister six all by herself will in no way build her up by making some of Pete's most difficult opponents lesser (which in term makes Pete lesser). Who can't wait for SI-Spider-Man, featuring no spider-man whatsoever but tons of jackpot, vin and carlie action (which is what I know I've been wanting). I don't mind the new villians, some have some promise. Some could be better in other hands (freak isn't the worst idea, he just needs less dddrrrruuuuugggssss!!!), but none have wowed me as impressive or a concept that couldn't have been done before.

As to the comedy aspect, I like my spider-banter. It's part of peter parker, he gets nervous and that's how he responds, plus it unbalances his opponents. When done right it's just beautiful, but if you want to see it done wrong look no further than bendis. USM is good because this is a peter parker much reduced in all ways from his 616 version. That peter is weaker, slower, less experienced, less intelligent and just a kid. For him to look stupid constantly and get schooled consistantly, I don't mind. It fits the character. Then you take the 616 version, you know the guy that's almost at richard's level of intelligence, has enough strenght to affect bruisers, enough speed and agility to dodge hails of bullets and enough experience to take out opponents that severely overmatch him and you look at him in NA, being cage's sidekick and getting beat down by ninjas that he alone should handle pretty easily and you just wonder. Pete is suppose to annoy the villians and make me laugh, not annoy me and make luke cage laugh at him, that's an "at" not a "with".
 
Yea it was the last issue of Sensational before the OMD issue.

That issue almost felt like Roberto Aguire-Sacasa's little cheap shot at Marvel for cancelling his book for a stupid retcon. The whole issue was about Peter's life and the decisions he's made, the people that he's saved, and the happy ending that he would have someday....if Joey Q hadn't hit the "Easy" button.

Add to that that the issue before that featured Peter and Company having a seance and Aunt May's soul saying that she was ready to be let go, and you have one more example of R.A-S. screaming, "It wasn't my idea, guys!"
 

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