Iraq-does staying the course keep us safer?

[Spider-Bite]

A lot of people believe that if we up and leave Iraq will fall farther into chaos and become a bigger threat to the united states. Bush claims the terrorists will use Iraq as a breeding ground to launch attacks against Americans.

How is that any different than right now? Every day an attack is launched and successfully might I add. It doesn't matter if you kill 3000 Americans in one five minute attack, or if you kill 3000 troops gradually over the course of a few years. Either way it's still 3000.

Even with us being there, if Iraqis decided to come to America and fly airplanes into buildings, our troops being in Iraq isn't going to have any effect on that whatsoever.

And for those who think our presence makes them less likely to terrorize us? Think again. They are getting angrier and angrier at us every day. Not just insurgents, but the entire country. They get more and more pissed at us and more and more sympathetic to Alquida's cause. Our invasion is being used as a rallying cry to recruit terrorists.

"look at them. Iraq didn't even do anything and they still invaded and now they refuse to leave." That's what young muslim children are hearing daily. The longer we are there, the more danger we are in. Were only making things worse for ourselves, wasting lives and hundreds of billions of tax dollars, and creating more terrorists.

Who can tell me how us being there makes us safer. And don't say "Iraq will fall into chao.s" I want details about how we could be attacked and how our being there could have stopped it.

 

[Kool-Aid]

Pssss Iraq will never be a threat to us.

 

[Addendum]

I feel just as safe as I felt before the Iraq war, before 9-11 and before I entered pre-school when I was 4.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

I think we should ultimately leave soon, or at the very least really revise our current plan of action and how we go through it.

 

[The Overlord]

A lot of people believe that if we up and leave Iraq will fall farther into chaos and become a bigger threat to the united states. Bush claims the terrorists will use Iraq as a breeding ground to launch attacks against Americans.

How is that any different than right now? Every day an attack is launched and successfully might I add. It doesn't matter if you kill 3000 Americans in one five minute attack, or if you kill 3000 troops gradually over the course of a few years. Either way it's still 3000.

Even with us being there, if Iraqis decided to come to America and fly airplanes into buildings, our troops being in Iraq isn't going to have any effect on that whatsoever.

And for those who think our presence makes them less likely to terrorize us? Think again. They are getting angrier and angrier at us every day. Not just insurgents, but the entire country. They get more and more pissed at us and more and more sympathetic to Alquida's cause. Our invasion is being used as a rallying cry to recruit terrorists.

"look at them. Iraq didn't even do anything and they still invaded and now they refuse to leave." That's what young muslim children are hearing daily. The longer we are there, the more danger we are in. Were only making things worse for ourselves, wasting lives and hundreds of billions of tax dollars, and creating more terrorists.

Who can tell me how us being there makes us safer. And don't say "Iraq will fall into chao.s" I want details about how we could be attacked and how our being there could have stopped it.

The removal of Saddam has turned Iraq into a gapping wound, the presence of the Coalition forces is nothing more than bandaid, it keeps a bit of of lid on things, but ultimately the wound is still bleeding and getting worse, the bandaid doesn't cover everything, is quickly losing its effectiviness. However removing the bandaid won't solve anything, the factions united against the coalition, will just starting fighting each other and Iraq will be a bigger mess. Pretty well its a no win stituation, which is why i was against the war in the first place, I knew it create a no win stituation.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Pssss Iraq will never be a threat to us.

It wasn't a threat. It currently is. It threatens the lives of our troops daily, whether we stay or leave there is a very good chance it will be a severe threat. Our staying there will have no positive effect on that though.

 

[Addendum]

A threat to the troops, yes. But not a threat to the nation

 

[Spider-Bite]

The removal of Saddam has turned Iraq into a gapping wound, the presence of the Coalition forces is nothing more than bandaid, it keeps a bit of of lid on things, but ultimately the wound is still bleeding and getting worse, the bandaid doesn't cover everything, is quickly losing its effectiviness. However removing the bandaid won't solve anything, the factions united against the coalition, will just starting fighting each other and Iraq will be a bigger mess. Pretty well its a no win stituation, which is why i was against the war in the first place, I knew it create a no win stituation.

removing the band aid will solve the problem of dead troops and hundreds of billions of dollars of our tax money. Our band aid staying there is not really keeping us safer. it's just us trying to meddle and sort out the middle east which is what got us attacked in the first place. we need to let them develop at their own pace, so they can learn from their own mistakes and quit giving them a reason to blame us for everything that goes wrong over there.

 

[Spider-Bite]

A threat to the troops, yes. But not a threat to the nation

same thing. civillain or troop your still an american. they are not expendable bodies. they trust our government with their life, and that should not be taken for granted.

 

[Addendum]

I've yet to see how Iraq is a threat to our country.

 

[The Overlord]

removing the band aid will solve the problem of dead troops and hundreds of billions of dollars of our tax money. Our band aid staying there is not really keeping us safer. it's just us trying to meddle and sort out the middle east which is what got us attacked in the first place. we need to let them develop at their own pace, so they can learn from their own mistakes and quit giving them a reason to blame us for everything that goes wrong over there.

We're talking about a poorly formed country created in colonial age by the British, filled with ethnic groups that hate eachother. They won't learn from their mistakes, they will just keep on killing eachother.Now that saddam is gone, these ethnic tensions are boiling over and resulting in bloodshed. If the Coalition stays in Iraq they will be blamed for the violence and be hated in the ME, if they leave, the stituation will get worse, US will get blamed for leaving Iraq in a mess and they will be hated across the ME. It doesn't matter any more, Iraq is heading for a meltdown, the only question now is how long before this meltdown occurs.

 

[Spider-Bite]

We're talking about a poorly formed country created in colonial age by the British, filled with ethnic groups that hate eachother. They won't learn from their mistakes, they will just keep on killing eachother.Now that saddam is gone, these ethnic tensions are boiling over and resulting in bloodshed. If the Coalition stays in Iraq they will be blamed for the violence and be hated in the ME, if they leave, the stituation will get worse, US will get blamed for leaving Iraq in a mess and they will be hated across the ME. It doesn't matter any more, Iraq is heading for a meltdown, the only question now is how long before this meltdown occurs.

i wasn't just referring to Iraq. I believe that over the next two decades we should gradually form a policy of non middle eastern interferrence. We need to let them fix their own problems so they will have nobody to blame but themselves. they will learn from their mistakes. I think that when we leave they will probably blow each other up worse than ever before, and that's what it's gonna take for them to learn. eventually it will get so bad that they will be like "man war sucks. maybe we should stop"

 

[Crowforge]

nope

 

[The Overlord]

i wasn't just referring to Iraq. I believe that over the next two decades we should gradually form a policy of non middle eastern interferrence. We need to let them fix their own problems so they will have nobody to blame but themselves. they will learn from their mistakes. I think that when we leave they will probably blow each other up worse than ever before, and that's what it's gonna take for them to learn. eventually it will get so bad that they will be like "man war sucks. maybe we should stop"

Hmmm, the problem is the US government will lose face if they leave Iraq in a mess, which is why it won't leave, until at least a new government gets into power in Washington.

Your understimating the ability of people to hate eachother. In Sudan there
has been a civil war there for about 40 years and its only gotten worse over the years, now we're seeing genocide there.

I would like it if the West had an isolationalist policy towards the ME, but since we still rely on oil for power that won't happen any time soon.

 

[Spider-Bite]

Hmmm, the problem is the US government will lose face if they leave Iraq in a mess, which is why it won't leave, until at least a new government gets into power in Washington.

Your understimating the ability of people to hate eachother. In Sudan there
has been a civil war there for about 40 years and its only gotten worse over the years, now we're seeing genocide there.

I would like it if the West had an isolationalist policy towards the ME, but since we still rely on oil for power that won't happen any time soon.

I feel that we set an example by improving our own nation along with the rest of the world improving their nations, so that the middle east sees what they could have. Not to mention that if they know ahead of time we will be leaving they will probably cease a lot of the violence in favor of planning and waiting for their day of reckoning. That means that they will actually temporarily have peace, and they will remember that peace, and when there is blood covering the streets they will long for those days of peace.

while they are waiting for us to leave they will also have a lot of time for self reflection to figure out what kind of middle east they want to have. there are liberals over there who will try to convince their fellow muslims that peace is valuable. and I believe that no matter how long it takes, eventually the correct and righteous side of the argument eventually wins.

 

[Spider-Bite]

not to mention the mars mission will eventually turn up some kind of life, and for many it will appear to discredit their religion.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Pssss Iraq will never be a threat to us.

There will always be threats.Victory or defeat,Iraq can become a foe of America.Its no longer the 1800`s where America`s oceans can protect it,missles can easily travel over that distance,or a bomb can be smuggled in.

Safer?Doubtful,political excuse.Perhaps.

 

[Batty for Bats!]

Hell No.

 

[Matt]

Iraq as a country could've never laid a finger on us. Iraqis who have joined terrorist organizations because of what we have done...they can hurt us. So no.

 

[Maxwell Smart]

The result will be the same whether we stay or go- Balkanization. Anyone who says otherwise does not know/understand the history of Iraq, and foreign intervention there.

I think since our presence is futile in stopping the inevitable we should not waste any further American lives and refocus our resources elsewhere in the War on Terror, where they will be much more useful.

 

[The Overlord]

I feel that we set an example by improving our own nation along with the rest of the world improving their nations, so that the middle east sees what they could have. Not to mention that if they know ahead of time we will be leaving they will probably cease a lot of the violence in favor of planning and waiting for their day of reckoning. That means that they will actually temporarily have peace, and they will remember that peace, and when there is blood covering the streets they will long for those days of peace.

while they are waiting for us to leave they will also have a lot of time for self reflection to figure out what kind of middle east they want to have. there are liberals over there who will try to convince their fellow muslims that peace is valuable. and I believe that no matter how long it takes, eventually the correct and righteous side of the argument eventually wins.

There have been conflicts around the world that have lasted 40 or 50 years, its clear that many people will simply not give peace chance and that's not going to change any time soon. There will always be people who will let themselves be caught in the neverending cycle of bloodshed and revenge.

Setting an example never works in international politics. Nowadays most Western countries are free from the type of ethnic tension that leads to civil wars, but that doesn't some developing countries aren't and they don't care if a Western country has internal peace, they have hated the other tribe so long they have forgotten why they hate them. Never underestimate the ability of someone to hate someone else. That's way I would want an isolation policy towards the ME, I'm tired of trying dealing the ethnic stryfe, reactionary ideologies and religious fundamantalism that is pervasive across the ME. But since Western governments rely on oil for power that won't happen.

 

[blind_fury]

Polling indicates that half the country of Iraq supports suicide bomb attacks agianst Americans. http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/45_percent_of_Iraqis_support_suicide_bombers_who_attack_allied_forces

How is America going to win? Kill half the population of Iraq (14 million people)?

 

[NOFX]

There's a saying you can defeat its government but you cant defeat its people.

 

[Spider-Bite]

There have been conflicts around the world that have lasted 40 or 50 years, its clear that many people will simply not give peace chance and that's not going to change any time soon. There will always be people who will let themselves be caught in the neverending cycle of bloodshed and revenge.

Setting an example never works in international politics. Nowadays most Western countries are free from the type of ethnic tension that leads to civil wars, but that doesn't some developing countries aren't and they don't care if a Western country has internal peace, they have hated the other tribe so long they have forgotten why they hate them. Never underestimate the ability of someone to hate someone else. That's way I would want an isolation policy towards the ME, I'm tired of trying dealing the ethnic stryfe, reactionary ideologies and religious fundamantalism that is pervasive across the ME. But since Western governments rely on oil for power that won't happen.

that's like saying whites and blacks would never stop hating each other, enslaving each other, and the civil war would never end. There are liberals in the middle east, and they contaminate other muslims with their liberal ideas, who contaminate others and so on. and as history unfolds it will only strenghten their argument, when they say "told you so"

 

[Superman]

Haven't you heard? Bush said "We've never been "Stay The Course"