Is anybody else TOTALLY confused? (SPOILERS!)

[Heretic]

I really don't think "separate" franchises will be that confusing for people.

Hey, did you hear about the new Grey's Anatomy spin off series that just got announced???

It's all the same characters, but instead of being doctors in Seattle, they now run a free clinic in New York City! Meredith's mom does not have Alzheimers disease in this version and is actually a receptionist at the clinic. Also, Meredith is dating George, not Derek. Derek and Kate were never married and in fact have never met, and love might be in the air since in this version she did not move on to another show but is still part of the Greys Anatomy cast! Dr Bailey is not pregnant, but does have a son who is 5 years old. George did not fail the intern exam in this "alternate reality" and is now a heart surgeon at a nearby hospital.

ABC is confident that this will cause no confusion to the viewing public.

 

[Ring Deacon]

sorry double post.

 

[Ring Deacon]

Hey, did you hear about the new Grey's Anatomy spin off series that just got announced???

It's all the same characters, but instead of being doctors in Seattle, they now run a free clinic in New York City! Meredith's mom does not have Alzheimers disease in this version and is actually a receptionist at the clinic. Also, Meredith is dating George, not Derek. Derek and Kate were never married and in fact have never met, and love might be in the air since in this version she did not move on to another show but is still part of the Greys Anatomy cast! Dr Bailey is not pregnant, but does have a son who is 5 years old. George did not fail the intern exam in this "alternate reality" and is now a heart surgeon at a nearby hospital.

ABC is confident that this will cause no confusion to the viewing public.

Alternate reality episodes have been done many times for TV shows. And no one was ever confused. There have even been remakes of shows (Bionic Woman 2007 is nothing like the one from the 1970's) and no one was confused by that before either. The general public isn't that dumb to not understand what a reboot it. JLA will be just that, a reboot in the general public's eye. That and most will see it as a live action Super Friends and understand why Superman and Bataman are different, since the SF heroes are different then the solo cartoon heroes.

 

[Heretic]

Could you point out an example of an ongoing alternate reality version of another CURRENTLY ONGOING property? Not an alternate reality episode or a reboot years later, but a second series that goes on at the same time that contradits and wholly dismisses the other one?

 

[The Guard]

Hey, did you hear about the new Grey's Anatomy spin off series that just got announced???

It's all the same characters, but instead of being doctors in Seattle, they now run a free clinic in New York City! Meredith's mom does not have Alzheimers disease in this version and is actually a receptionist at the clinic. Also, Meredith is dating George, not Derek. Derek and Kate were never married and in fact have never met, and love might be in the air since in this version she did not move on to another show but is still part of the Greys Anatomy cast! Dr Bailey is not pregnant, but does have a son who is 5 years old. George did not fail the intern exam in this "alternate reality" and is now a heart surgeon at a nearby hospital.

ABC is confident that this will cause no confusion to the viewing public

I don 't watch GRAY'S ANATOMY. I think it's a horrible show. I'll prepare a suitable rebuttal to this bit of hyperbolizing.

 

[Heretic]

I don 't watch GRAY'S ANATOMY. I think it's a horrible show. I'll prepare a suitable rebuttal to this bit of hyperbolizing.

Go right ahead. In my little "hyperbole", I created a kid that is not recognized as existing in the other "universe", altered the fact that some opposing characters have already been dealt with, and changed the fact that one guy wasn't ready to be a doctor in one, but is beyond ready in the alternate reality version that takes place at the same time. All of this should sound familiar (Supermans kid, Talia and her father, Batman is still kinda beginning).

People would not understand why the characters are married on Mondays but have never met on Tuesdays. Those same people wouldnt understand the changes when Batman is at one spot in his life one year, miles advaned a year later, and then bak to basics the following year.

 

[NateGray]

Alternate reality episodes have been done many times for TV shows. And no one was ever confused. There have even been remakes of shows (Bionic Woman 2007 is nothing like the one from the 1970's) and no one was confused by that before either. The general public isn't that dumb to not understand what a reboot it. JLA will be just that, a reboot in the general public's eye. That and most will see it as a live action Super Friends and understand why Superman and Bataman are different, since the SF heroes are different then the solo cartoon heroes.

LMAO you did not just quote a show that is barley staying alive in the ratings as reason for your thinking the average person would just accept the crap fed to them because they are spitting up your referenced show and it will probably not make the seasons end.
People will be confused and its like starting a movie halfway through it.
I mean are they going to explain how they get to where they are or just assume people understand? because as another poster put it SR did that people will understand part and we see where they went and not well is all I am going to say about that.

 

[shadowdog]

No one's ever had a problem with TPTB switching Bond's between movies (all be it less frequently than they seem to switch Batmen). I think if the movie has more to stand on than just some big name stars and some cool looking special effercts like, oh I don't know... a good story? Character development? Intrigue? Then maybe people will accept whoever they get to fill the capes and boots of the JL and just enjoy the film.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Bond is more like passing a torch to the next guy. This is more like watching the Boston Celetics versus the Boston Celetics? Same team just one half on one team versus the other half.

 

[Showtime]

When? Tomorrow
Where? Hype Community

Cast your vote.

 

[Sun_Down]

Hey, did you hear about the new Grey's Anatomy spin off series that just got announced???

It's all the same characters, but instead of being doctors in Seattle, they now run a free clinic in New York City! Meredith's mom does not have Alzheimers disease in this version and is actually a receptionist at the clinic. Also, Meredith is dating George, not Derek. Derek and Kate were never married and in fact have never met, and love might be in the air since in this version she did not move on to another show but is still part of the Greys Anatomy cast! Dr Bailey is not pregnant, but does have a son who is 5 years old. George did not fail the intern exam in this "alternate reality" and is now a heart surgeon at a nearby hospital.

ABC is confident that this will cause no confusion to the viewing public.

Comparing two shows that air on back-to-back nights on the same network with the same actors is much different from two movies (let's use TDK and JLA since TDK is looking like it'll be the closest DC movie in terms of release date) with different actors and different styles that occur 2 years apart.

 

[The Guard]

Hey, did you hear about the new Grey's Anatomy spin off series that just got announced??? It's all the same characters, but instead of being doctors in Seattle, they now run a free clinic in New York City!

Huh...well, logically speaking then, they must be telling a story about a different period of time in the doctors careers. Probably a story that happens later on.

Meredith's mom does not have Alzheimers disease in this version and is actually a receptionist at the clinic.

She got better and changed roles at a different time in her life. Fantastic. I was getting tired of the same old hook.

Also, Meredith is dating George, not Derek.

Someone changed romantic partners? On a SOAP OPERA? Never happens in real life, either. God, how will viewing audiences adapt to such a story twist?

Derek and Kate were never married and in fact have never met, and love might be in the air since in this version she did not move on to another show but is still part of the Greys Anatomy cast!

That might throw some people if that was written as such. But I don't see how this relates to JUSTICE LEAGUE. There's not a similar situation forming with the DC films.

Dr Bailey is not pregnant, but does have a son who is 5 years old.

Uh, clearly she delivered, and the kid grew up. Duh.

George did not fail the intern exam in this "alternate reality" and is now a heart surgeon at a nearby hospital.

That might throw some people. Still don't see that relates to JUSTICE LEAGUE. There are no changes of that magnitude in JUSTICE LEAGUE so far as we know.

ABC is confident that this will cause no confusion to the viewing public.

Not the intelligent ones who can follow individual stories. None of the changes in JUSTICE LEAGUE are even akin to the kinds of changes you utilize here. Poor analogy overall.

Go right ahead. In my little "hyperbole", I created a kid that is not recognized as existing in the other "universe", altered the fact that some opposing characters have already been dealt with, and changed the fact that one guy wasn't ready to be a doctor in one, but is beyond ready in the alternate reality version that takes place at the same time. All of this should sound familiar (Supermans kid, Talia and her father, Batman is still kinda beginning).

It sounds like you're reaching. Big time.

Superman's kid being mentioned or not is completely irrelevant to the plot of JUSTICE LEAGUE. Jason not being mentioned does not mean he doesn't exist somewhere in Superman's world, any more than Lex Luthor not being a main character means that he doesn't exist. As you will doubtless recall, the kid lives with Lois at the end of SUPERMAN RETURNS, not Clark. Therefore why would he even feature in the JLA film?

The introduction of Talia is not a contradiction to the events of BATMAN BEGINS, nor a reboot of them. She is an addition. Additions to previously told stories do not tend to confuse people. They tend to move a story further along and add to it.

And Batman clearly isn't still beginning if he has a satellite surveillance system and the league exists.

People would not understand why the characters are married on Mondays but have never met on Tuesdays.

There is not a similar situation to be found so far in these JUSTICE LEAGUE rumors.

Those same people wouldnt understand the changes when Batman is at one spot in his life one year, miles advaned a year later, and then bak to basics the following year.

Ah. So you think people are too stupid to figure out that multiple stories can be told about a character, and that not all stories must take place early in that character's career?

I get it, I get it, "Oh no, in 2009, we'll see JUSTICE LEAGUE, how will people ever get back into the mindset to watch Batman early in his career again in 2010?"

Here's how. Here's how it will likely play out with the mildly intelligent crowd:

PERSON ONE
Wait...isn't Batman at the beginning of his career in those other two movies?

PERSON TWO
Yes, in the other franchise. But this isn't a story just about Batman, this is JUSTICE LEAGUE, which clearly takes place later on in the heroes careers, when they've joined together as a league, after all that stuff early in Batman's career went down. So this is actually taking place after the other franchise. Get it?

PERSON ONE
Oh. Yeah. That's simple enough. These are just stories about different times in Batman's career, but they're making it now for whatever reason. That's kinda cool. Why are they making it now, though?

PERSON TWO
This is when the director who wanted to make the project was available, and the time was right, because WB has all these other great characters it was having trouble getting off the ground. JUSTICE LEAGUE may help make those characters popular enough for solo films.

PERSON ONE
That's quite clever.

PERSON TWO
Yes. Yes it is.

Of course, I'm sure we'll be deluged with the occasional person telling us how their idiot/ignorant friends can't figure out simple concepts. Like the dozens and dozens of people who ask why Joker is in THE DARK KNIGHT when he was killed in BATMAN.

Because we all know the average person, once it's explained to them once, won't "get it".

Whatever.

 

[Heretic]

Most of the above response to my example hinged upon the two series taking place at different times...however, it is clear in my post that these two series run in the same timeframe but in different universes.

A girl has no kids in one, but a child in one, meanwhile the universe where she has no kids a couple is married, but in the universe where she does have a kid the couple has never met. That cant be explained away with "its a different period in their lives", so I dismiss most of your points immediately.

You say that the public is capable of accepting two ongoing universes that contradit each other, while I still searh for an example of such. This isnt about replacing actors, it's about storylines in multimillion dollar movies that completely contradict each other. I will suggest that because it is movies people will have an even harder time telling the difference than they would if it were tv shows. People expect movies to be "official" as far as that goes, and if there are 2 official continuities going on at once that contradict each other, I am sure that people will leave scratching their heads.

COMING IN 2008...CHRONICLES OF HOGWARTS!
I know that you may not recall this, but Harry Potter was killed at the end of his second movie. This "alternate reality" continues the story without any involvement from Harry! Dont be angry or confused! The studio is just spending a hundred million dollars on another storyline! It's gonna be a fun ride!

And dont miss LORD OF THE RINGS: SAM'S QUEST!

Middle Earth is in an uproar over the Ring, while Frodo ventures to destroy it! Sam, who opted to not go with Frodo at all, must save his girlfriend Arwen from an evil wizard. With him on his journey is Boromir, who did not die after all, and Pippin, who's just along for the ride. Wath in amazement as their journeys crisscross back and forth with the adventures from the original Trilogy! Dont get confused though about the impossibility of all of the plot details, this is an "alternate universe" and we're sure that you'll love it!

 

[Wally West]

I'm sure there will be enough differences in the characters that people will know they aren't watching Nolan's batman, and Singer's superman. Are people actually ignorant enough to think that George Miller hasn't already considered the fact that there are other films envolving these characters being released. I'm sure he will have his own take on the characters.

This isn't the wizard of Oz, or Lord of the Rings. It's not one story that has gone through time unchanged. These are characters who have existed in multiple universes and constant reboots in the comics and on TV and the movies for almost 60 years, I don't see how another reboot is cause for anyone to flip out. That's how it works, that's how it has always worked, and there will be countless more alternate universes and reboots in the future. Just accept it.

 

[The Guard]

Most of the above response to my example hinged upon the two series taking place at different times...however, it is clear in my post that these two series run in the same timeframe but in different universes.

That doesn't mean the actual STORY takes place at the same time. Ever heard of "continuity"?

A girl has no kids in one, but a child in one

Yeah, clearly she had a kid when she got older. This is not rocket science.

meanwhile the universe where she has no kids a couple is married, but in the universe where she does have a kid the couple has never met.

There is no change on that level to this JUSTICE LEAGUE movie. Again, you're reaching. You come talk to me when we see that Lois and Superman have never met in JUSTICE LEAGUE, ok?

That cant be explained away with "its a different period in their lives", so I dismiss most of your points immediately.

Too bad you didn't bother to read my points in context. I pointed out that you gave two examples that could potentially confuse people. However, I also pointed out that NOTHING LIKE THOSE EXAMPLES seems to be included in JUSTICE LEAGUE.

You say that the public is capable of accepting two ongoing universes that contradit each other, while I still searh for an example of such.

Hmm...ULTIMATE MARVEL and the regular Marvel Universe. That was tough to come up with.

This isnt about replacing actors, it's about storylines in multimillion dollar movies that completely contradict each other.

Except so far, they don't contradict each other. At all. What, that has been rumored to take place in JUSTICE LEAGUE so far, actually contradicts BATMAN BEGINS or SUPERMAN RETURNS?

I will suggest that because it is movies people will have an even harder time telling the difference than they would if it were tv shows.

Yes, because the entire world is too stupid to figure this one out.

People expect movies to be "official" as far as that goes, and if there are 2 official continuities going on at once that contradict each other, I am sure that people will leave scratching their heads.

Except that, once again...NOTHING CONTRADICTS so far.

COMING IN 2008...CHRONICLES OF HOGWARTS!

I know that you may not recall this, but Harry Potter was killed at the end of his second movie. This "alternate reality" continues the story without any involvement from Harry! Dont be angry or confused! The studio is just spending a hundred million dollars on another storyline! It's gonna be a fun ride!

Hey. Bit of advice. Your analogies suck. They are hyperbolic and completely irrelevant to the actual scenario JUSTICE LEAGUE presents. They are not reflective of the situation with JUSTICE LEAGUE. Please stop using them. Thus far, JUSTICE LEAGUE has not been painted as an alternate reality, but rather as a continuation of the BEGINS universe that features other heroes.

 

[Sun_Down]

Most of the above response to my example hinged upon the two series taking place at different times...however, it is clear in my post that these two series run in the same timeframe but in different universes.

A girl has no kids in one, but a child in one, meanwhile the universe where she has no kids a couple is married, but in the universe where she does have a kid the couple has never met. That cant be explained away with "its a different period in their lives", so I dismiss most of your points immediately.

You say that the public is capable of accepting two ongoing universes that contradit each other, while I still searh for an example of such. This isnt about replacing actors, it's about storylines in multimillion dollar movies that completely contradict each other. I will suggest that because it is movies people will have an even harder time telling the difference than they would if it were tv shows. People expect movies to be "official" as far as that goes, and if there are 2 official continuities going on at once that contradict each other, I am sure that people will leave scratching their heads.

COMING IN 2008...CHRONICLES OF HOGWARTS!
I know that you may not recall this, but Harry Potter was killed at the end of his second movie. This "alternate reality" continues the story without any involvement from Harry! Dont be angry or confused! The studio is just spending a hundred million dollars on another storyline! It's gonna be a fun ride!

And dont miss LORD OF THE RINGS: SAM'S QUEST!

Middle Earth is in an uproar over the Ring, while Frodo ventures to destroy it! Sam, who opted to not go with Frodo at all, must save his girlfriend Arwen from an evil wizard. With him on his journey is Boromir, who did not die after all, and Pippin, who's just along for the ride. Wath in amazement as their journeys crisscross back and forth with the adventures from the original Trilogy! Dont get confused though about the impossibility of all of the plot details, this is an "alternate universe" and we're sure that you'll love it!

Now you're just making up ridiculous crap to support your point. For one thing, we don't even know if JLA will directly contradict BB/TDK or SR. And if it does, we don't know to what extent. From what we've heard, they won't go into character origins since the League is already together, so there's really nothing there to contradict Begins, as the events of JLA might just happen later in Batman's career. You seem to have this idea that JLA will somehow say or do something that will confuse people so much that they'll be paralyzed and unable to process anything else for the next 90 minutes. So don't go making up obviously outrageous examples and try to pass them off as legitimate arguments.

And the point that you don't seem to be getting is that these JLA isn't going to come out on a Monday with TDK coming out on the following Tuesday. Atleast a year will pass between JLA and any other DC superhero film. That's a year of the average moviegoer thinking about other things, seeing other movies and not wondering out comic book film continuity. When JLA comes out, they won't be thinking, "I thought Batman and Superman haven't! OMG I can't see this movie!" They'll be thinking "Justice League movie! Cool!" The average moviegoer will probably just think they're in the same continuity because they won't pay that much attention. Even more so, most people don't even think about continuity. EVER. They just think, "Batman's doing this in this movie. Wow, Batman's doing this in this movie."

The main problem is that you're applying geek logic, which is based on dissecting, nitpicking and complaining, to everyday logic. Stop thinking of every person in the world as a hardcore comic book fan and you won't see any real problem here, I promise you.

 

[Heretic]

First of all...the example of the Marvel Universe and the Ultimate Marvel universe doesnt count. Us comic book geeks expect alternate realities. Hell, Cable, Bishop, and Marvel Girl are all from alternate futures. The point is that NON COMIC READERS are not acustomed to alternate realities in their entertainment (outside of shows like Quantum Leap, which is self contained in its own universe".

You want to know what about this script conradicts Batman Begins and Superman Returns? I'll be honest bro... I don't know, because I haven't read the script. From what I've gathered here and in the press release is that DC IS making this an alternate reality movie. It said that it is not in the same continuity, right? Clearly, involving Ra's or his daughter steps on SOME degree of Batman Begins.

Truth be told, I'm just playing devils advocate and have no real dog in this fight. However, I am SURE that the general non comic reading public is a bunch of morons. They thought Britney Spears was a great singer, they thought that Big Brother deserved several sequels, and to a large extent they are STILL asking how The Joker is in The Dark Knight when he was already killed by Michael Keaton (I wont even get into the "why did Batman Begins claim that some dude killed his parents when we all know that The Joker did?").

The public will NOT know that this isnt part of the Nolanverse. They dont even know that the Burtonverse is seperate. Putting the movies a year apart wont help matters at all.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Yes, in the other franchise. But this isn't a story just about Batman, this is JUSTICE LEAGUE, which clearly takes place later on in the heroes careers, when they've joined together as a league, after all that stuff early in Batman's career went down. So this is actually taking place after the other franchise. Get it?

It might be clearer if the actor playing Batman was considerably older than Bale, or at least not noticeably younger. If that's the case, color me satisfied. But by all indications, that's not the route they're going.

 

[knight]

The public will NOT know that this isnt part of the Nolanverse. They dont even know that the Burtonverse is seperate. Putting the movies a year apart wont help matters at all.

wow, you must be around some inbred dumb as **** hick folk because I have yet to come across 1 person (I live outside of Chicago by the way) that thought Begins was a prequal to Baman89, for christ sakes the movies have 2 completley different directors with a 19 year gap between them, if that isn't clearity enough my ****ing god, that's just like thinking "Smallville" is a prequel based show to "Lois and Clark" from the 90's.

 

[dnno1]

I think he got pwned by a newb.

 

[Cmill216]

knight, watch the language. No need to get bent out of shape.

 

[Heretic]

I got pwned beause he isnt aware that people are too stupid to realize that Batman Begins and Batman are in different universes?

Allow me to explain the pwning process...I...meaning ME...HERETIC...says something so stupid that I end up eating crow when someone posts a funny reply.

This has nothing to do with what I say. It's what the GENERAL PUBLIC is saying. The same people who think the general public wont be confused thinks that the general public isnt confused by the Ultimate Universe. The general public doesnt read comics!! I will go out on a limb here and say that I probably talk to more people on any given day than you do (I work in publicity and public relations...talking to people all day is my job). I wear a Batman belt buckle (which is SWEET looking btw) so Batman OFTEN comes up in conversations with the general public. Since I live in a tourist destination, these are random idiots from all over the country. These idiots DO think that the Nolanverse and the Burtonverse are one and the same. Now...I wont vouch for the Mensa membership of these tools, but the fact remains...I OFTEN enounter people who aren't aware of the difference.

Are they complete fools? Yes. Will they be confused? Yes
That is the way of the general public...which is why it's always tricky when us nerds invite them into our world.

 

[moguy]

I think a poll should be set up for opinions on the public being confused vs. non confused.

That way once the film comes out and the public's confusion or lack thereof will be seen first hand, and all the fantatics on the losing side can eat crow.

In the meantime, we can avoid all these pointless arguments.

Personally, I'll be checking "confused "

Flame away .

 

[dnno1]

Good idea.

 

[Heretic]

Well, I think thats a good idea, but theres no real way of knowing if the public is confused. A friend of mine goes to see all of the Superhero movies with me and I assumed she got what was going on (shes not a comic fan). Just the other day she asked me if Jim Carey escaped from Arkham Asylum when Ra's blew up Arkham and if he's going to be in the The Dark Knight.

Never overestimate the ignorance level of people. These movies, and comics in general, would be like me watching a movie on nuclear physics. I may "get" the movie, but I dont REALLY "get" it.