Is fandom scaring away top talent?

[jmc]

Think about it from an individual perspective. Even if it's a small percentage to one person that's still a lot of voices being directed squarely at you.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

It's Rose's choice to do as she wants such as withdrawing from social media, but I again ask, with all the pearl clutching surrounding this... How many REALLY are complaining? And if it's less than a drop in the wider ocean of the population then perhaps it's not indicative of anything meaningful in reality and in fact when we as a group react as though those complaining are a larger percentage than what is true then no only are we amplifying the voices of a minority with ridiculous complaints we are adding to the general tit for tat resentment complex we all claim to disdain.

 

[Herofan]

You seriously don't seem to get that "terrible film" is subjective, unlike a sporting result or a bottom line performance at a job. Which is win/lose, pass/fail.

People enjoyed TLJ to the tune of 1.3 billion dollars.

That opinions are subjective doesnt't mean we can't or shouldn't voice them, let alone if box office is implied to be the only objective standard and so criticizing something financially successful is implied to just wrong or deranged.

the incessant whineing for half a year on the topic tends to point to something deeper, maybe go talk to someone professional over it. This isn't what normal people do.

I guess doing anything incessantly isn't wise but I don't get the attitude that a few months, including yes 5 or 6 months, is a really long time especially when it is considered normal, at least for film fans, to talk real positively about what they like for years after it was released.

 

[Teelie]

I think it is because when people enjoy something, they like to revel in it. Generally when you dislike something you move on and don't keep going back to it unless there is a deeper issue.

There have been a lot of movies I have seen over the years I did not like but I don't go back and continue to talk about how terrible they were unless they come up in a relevant discussion and even then only briefly.

So all this hate for TLJ or any movie that hasn't been in theaters for 6 months, probably means there is a deeper issue than it was a bad movie if you keep discussing how it was so bad.

 

[DACrowe]

Actors, no. Performers want their big break, at least when they're coming up, and will take the risk of cruel scrutiny to break in. And sometimes, if they're established, they just want a good role or opportunity (like every actor who's played Joker, or even probably the financial reasons Tom Hardy is Venom).


With that said, directors I do believe are being scared off. Or rather established directors who still prefer some autonomy and creative control to attempt something grander than just a product. Plenty of hungry young directors, for the same reasons as above, agree to work inside the Marvel system for example. But directors who still strive to excel and make something that towers above the pack, like Mangold or McQuarrie as this thread starts with, I do believe will increasingly step away from franchised brands. Especially as they become more about "universe" building and all having a uniform look.

Consider 15 or so years ago we were getting very distinct and seasoned voices like Christopher Nolan, Sam Raimi, and Bryan Singer as directors. I think time has revealed Singer is not nearly as good as the first two (on or off screen), but at the time he was still the guy who made Usual Suspects. Now once in a while we still get Ryan Coogler or Taika Waititi, but their movies feel less "theirs" and more their take on the Marvel formula. A major exception to this is James Gunn... and well, look what happened to him.

I imagine the same will hold true with Star Wars after the way Rian Johnson was treated by fans, and Lord and Miller were treated by Lucasfilm. I think increasingly direction in big studio tentpoles will become more of a TV-like gig. Something where they need a pro to steer the ship, but one who has no say in where it is headed or what kind of ship it is.

Many fans will say that's "fine." But the studio system is already more than halfway there, and there's a reason Mission: Impossible - Fallout felt so fresh and invigorating after a summer of such filler.

 

[Herofan]

I think it is because when people enjoy something, they like to revel in it. Generally when you dislike something you move on and don't keep going back to it unless there is a deeper issue.

I think when people think a film is terrible rather than just mediocre it's understandable to complain for a while, especially if it's while another sequel is likely to/will be made, either by the same or different people. I think many fans were still talking of Batman & Robin in 2000-2002 in skepticism and some hope about whether a next film could be better, Spider-Man 3 in 2010 and 2011 (as a 4 was planned and then a reboot announced), TASM2 a year after it came out and also three years later when the next reboot was announced and then released. You even have some people bashing an older film along with (because) praising the new one.



I'm still not clear what top talent really means, it could mean either highly famous & expensive talent (by that Nolan and Singer definitely didn't qualify back in '03 and '98) or talent that wants to do something more new and unique rather than cookie-cutter (by which they did). I haven't seen Logan but from James Mangold's other films including The Wolverine I don't think he qualifies for either version, Walk the Line was somewhat acclaimed in the sense of winning acting Oscars but not particularly liked otherwise(?)-I think even critics who liked it thought the film aside from the acting was very standard biopic.

 

[moviedoors]

It can't possibly be healthy to fixate on something you hate, daily, for months on end. That's like people that subscribe to TublrinAction on reddit. Yes, I think those people are crazy and unreasonable too. No, I do not need to wallow in it as a normal feature of my day-to-day existence.

 

[DarkKnight88]

Walk the Line was somewhat acclaimed in the sense of winning acting Oscars but not particularly liked otherwise(?)-

Gah? Among who? People who only watch comic book movies?

Let's also not forget 3:10 to Yuma.

I'm still not clear what top talent really means, it could mean either highly famous & expensive talent (by that Nolan and Singer definitely didn't qualify back in '03 and '98)

Top talent means quality of work.

The director of The Usual Suspects doing X-Men was a big deal back in 1998, yes.

 

[Iceman]

That's not a fandom thing though. That's an Internet thing. Try going to a news site or a sports site, and it is just as bad if not worse. Fans aren't jerks. PEOPLE are jerks. And fans just happen to be people.

Yeah, from what I've seen it's worse on sports sites (this is the only place I've found where I can discuss sports without going crazy) and much, much worse on news sites.

 

[Teelie]

It really is worse on sports sites and news sites. The only reason the superhero/fantasy/scifi genres are called out is everyone else likes to pretend they aren't as awful when they discuss sports or news (politics in particular).

There are some places you just cannot read the comments section on or should ever go to the forums for because the atmosphere is absolutely toxic. At least these forums are moderated and relatively restrained from the vitirol I see on some other sites.

 

[Herofan]

Gah? Among who? People who only watch comic book movies?

At the same Oscars, Stewart joked that it was a remake, "Ray for white people," a joke but I think not just a joke, a lot of people were feeling yeah it pretty much was (although Ray was also much more acclaimed for the acting than the writing, the writing not particularly praised).