Rodenberry and Lucas; when did they break from fandom?

I don't agree with a word Lucas has said because he has no understanding of the appeal of his own property. Anyone else is free to of course but I gave up caring about his opinion a long time ago. And I'm not even a gosh darn Star Wars fan. I just know what I find lousy and what I don't find lousy. If he thinks that the appeal of Star Wars is poorly written, chemistry-less romances, dull politics and completely uninteresting characters then he is sadly mistaken.

BTW, I don't care about him insulting Disney. Disney is a heartless corporation that screws up child actors by forcing them to be a squeaky clean emotionless robots. Although, Lucas ****ed out Star Wars more than anyone else, so he definitely cannot play the artist card now.
 
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Lucas ****ed out since 1978 with that Star Wars Special, and his toy deal with Kenner (when Hasbro said no) and Burger King.
 
Lucas ****ed out since 1978 with that Star Wars Special, and his toy deal with Kenner (when Hasbro said no) and Burger King.
Oh so he has been ****ing out the property from the beginning. Yes he has so much more integrity when it comes to Star Wars. You could feel his greedy hands all over Return of the Jedi and his greed hurt that film. Must sell more toys! Must sell more toys! And yes I know BB-8 is there to sell toys as well but BB-8 is actually cute and stuff.
 
I don't agree with a word Lucas has said because he has no understanding of the appeal of his own property. Anyone else is free to of course but I gave up caring about his opinion a long time ago. And I'm not even a gosh darn Star Wars fan. I just know what I find lousy and what I don't find lousy. If he thinks that the appeal of Star Wars is poorly written, chemistry-less romances, dull politics and completely uninteresting characters then he is sadly mistaken.

BTW, I don't care about him insulting Disney. Disney is a heartless corporation that screws up child actors by forcing them to be a squeaky clean emotionless robots. Although, Lucas ****ed out Star Wars more than anyone else, so he definitely cannot play the artist card now.

Mainly the stuff about it borrowing too heavily from the previous films, from particular shots all the way to the main plot involving Starkiller Base. I think that's a legit criticism of the film.
 
Mainly the stuff about it borrowing too heavily from the previous films, from particular shots all the way to the main plot involving Starkiller Base. I think that's a legit criticism of the film.
That's fine. I didn't think it was a perfect film but I still thought it was miles better than any of the prequels which I think are some of the worst films of the 1999/2000's. And I'm not trying to change anybody's mind but I don't think that his opinion is important anymore. That's sad because we wouldn't have Star Wars without him but it is what is.

I just think that we have a different outlook on it, I found all of the prequels offensively bad, I know not everyone did but I did. I think it's interesting that more than a decade later that he doesn't see what the problem with his Star Wars movies were but he can point out issues with Abrams. One day I hope to hear him admit some of the things that he did wrong.
 
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some are saying that the plan was to do the prequels from the start and some that Lucas had the idea after Return of the Jedi. what is the truth? i dont want to do a 1 week long research
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3lbWba7xjQ

There was lots of different plans being mentioned during the OT production. At one point there was not going to be a trilogy, each film would be set in the Star Wars universe but would be a separate story, more like the old tv and radio serials. There was talk of 3, or 6 or 9, if i recall the figure went as high as 21. And each film would have a different director. But then Lucas burned out and it was all scrapped.
 
The thing is, I agree with a lot of what Lucas said. It is the whole selling out to slavers stuff where he goes off the deep end. At least he apologized for it, and I'm willing to accept that.

The prequels kind of kill any credibility he had as a critic.

Maybe if he never made the crappy prequels you could argue that Lucas should've had creative control but we've seen where that road goes.

Now he looks like Brett Ratner if Ratner dissed DOFP.
 
I'm not in any way arguing that Lucas should have had creative control. He sold it. It is Disney's now to do what they want. And I agree that the series needed fresh blood in the worst way.
 
The prequels kind of kill any credibility he had as a critic.

Maybe if he never made the crappy prequels you could argue that Lucas should've had creative control but we've seen where that road goes.

Now he looks like Brett Ratner if Ratner dissed DOFP.

The difference here is that SW was his baby. But now, as Kahran says, the ship has sailed. He's been paid by the House of Mouse and now the franchise set to be rolled into Kingdom Hearts and whatever else they want to do with it.
 
Speaking of which, I really hope Disney remasters and releases the original films (not the Special Editions) on Blu-Ray.
 
Mainly the stuff about it borrowing too heavily from the previous films, from particular shots all the way to the main plot involving Starkiller Base. I think that's a legit criticism of the film.

That's the problem though. The main plot is not about the Starkiller base, it's a B plot at best. The "borrowing" is superficial. The whole story circles around Kylo/Rey and the search for Luke.
 
The difference here is that SW was his baby. But now, as Kahran says, the ship has sailed. He's been paid by the House of Mouse and now the franchise set to be rolled into Kingdom Hearts and whatever else they want to do with it.

The young idealistic, rebellious George Lucas made the OT.

The old cynical, out of touch Lucas made the recent prequels.

I view them as two, separate people. :o
 
Kind of sad that Lucas never explored his talents after Star Wars, he was in constant work during the process of the original trilogy, which even destroyed his marriage, but after that he seemed tos lowly pause, most of his credits were in Producing instead of Directing, with stuff like Willow and Indy 2+3. Even though his divorce with Marcia had to do with him not letting go of his job, it seems like he stagnated after it and stoped working as much.

As this talk about his original ideas, like Red Tails and Strange Magic, yet he barely has anything to show regarding those statements. Some of those original films of his might suck, but so did most of Kasdan's, he should just go there and gain some experience again, he has proven to be a promising talent once. He should just go out and start Directing some of the small budgeted films he always wanted to do, he has the resources for that, he even has enough resources to hire writers to help him tell the plot he wants better.

But eh, doesn't seem like he'll be doing that anytime soon, he showed interest even before selling Lucasfilm, then right after the sale, and after these years...still nothing...
 
The prequels kind of kill any credibility he had as a critic.

Maybe if he never made the crappy prequels you could argue that Lucas should've had creative control but we've seen where that road goes.

Now he looks like Brett Ratner if Ratner dissed DOFP.

Most actual film critics would make horrible film directors.
 
That's the problem though. The main plot is not about the Starkiller base, it's a B plot at best. The "borrowing" is superficial. The whole story circles around Kylo/Rey and the search for Luke.

Which is a major structural problem of the film. Its a major distraction from the actual that simply tries to trade on nostalgic iconography. Its a re-hash of the death star trench run with none of the weight or importance.

In contrast, the original death star fight was a major step forward for Luke and also featured Han returning.

Also the film could have had Rey living on any kind of planet but instead she's just living on a visually identical desert planet, more or less as gender-bent Luke cosplay. She lives on Faux-Tatooine, the rebels are hiding on on Faux-Yavin and the Faux-Empire has an EVEN BIGGER DEATH STAR!.

I really wish the film would have done more to build out the Star Wars universe in the same way that Mad Max: Fury Road built onto its predecessors.
 
The ST 1979 vs Wrath of Khan shows that majority of people prefer somewhat unsophisticated sci-fi action (

That is a fairly ridiculous reading of The Wrath of Kahn. Beyond its action what Wrath of Kahn delivered in spades over The Motion Picture is fantastic character work. Wrath of Kahn is thoughtful in its themes of vengeance, aging and friendship.

In comparison The Motion Picture is just kind of hollow.
 
If you watch older interviews with Lucas, he used to seem to understand his personal limitations and faults as a filmmaker and would frequently comment about how much help he got from friends and co-workers on making Star Wars what it is. Somewhere around the time production started on The Phantom Menace things changed and I'm not sure why.

He found himself with a sycophantic yes-man as a producer.
o-RICK-MCCALLUM-LUCASFILM-facebook.jpg
 
He found himself with a sycophantic yes-man as a producer.
o-RICK-MCCALLUM-LUCASFILM-facebook.jpg

SW fans s*** on McCallum way too much, during the 70s, his producer Gary Kurtz pretty much was "we don't know how to do that", which lead to Lucas having to create and develop Industrial Lights and Magic to fill that gap, McCallum was more along the lines of "allrights, let's do it", and he did it, he helped kickstart a digital age of filmmaking and some of the progress from the Prequels helped CGI move forward into the likes of Davy Jones and Gollum. McCallum's career is burned due to having worked on the Prequels, but it has more to do with being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

If i'm not mistaken, even Marcia Lucas (who people have started to consider has having been instrumental in Star Wars's success) was getting annoyed with Kurtz during the making of Empire Strikes Back. Kurtz might not have been as much of a "yes man", but as a Producer he also wasn't as competent as the Star Wars franchise needed.
 
Which is a major structural problem of the film. Its a major distraction from the actual that simply tries to trade on nostalgic iconography. Its a re-hash of the death star trench run with none of the weight or importance.

In contrast, the original death star fight was a major step forward for Luke and also featured Han returning.

Also the film could have had Rey living on any kind of planet but instead she's just living on a visually identical desert planet, more or less as gender-bent Luke cosplay. She lives on Faux-Tatooine, the rebels are hiding on on Faux-Yavin and the Faux-Empire has an EVEN BIGGER DEATH STAR!.

I really wish the film would have done more to build out the Star Wars universe in the same way that Mad Max: Fury Road built onto its predecessors.

It's not a structural problem at all. The Starkiller base is a huge step forward but for the mirror version of Luke. Which is Kylo Ren. The whole base is thematic and symbolic around him, it is what Snoke is doing to him, sucking the light out of him, while using it as a weapon for his own dark purposes. Structurally it still works. The whole trench run was too fanservicy and could have been done without, however for the rest of it, it did what it needed to do to have the small First Order make a big blow to the massive New Republic sending the galaxy into chaos. No matter what like most comic book films there is some "doomsday device" that it's purpose is to destroy the human race, or planet, or city, or galaxy whatever. Except the superficially make it a gem, or a staff, or a nuke or sun making machine yadda yadda. (That's not a bash to them at all). But again it is superfical what most of these films change.

The Starkiller base had multiple purposes and served them well. Besides the Trench run the base actually had quite a unique look to it. I mean even the whole duel at the end showed that. And that was the true lead up was the duel at the end, and that the Starkiller base like Kylo was falling apart. I think some just focused on the fact that it was a doomsday weapon planet style and ignored everything else that is actually happening.

As for Rey/Luke they could not be more far apart. Gender Cosplay it is not. Rey is a loner, scavanger girl who can take care of her self and his been living on the edge of starving/dying her entire life. She does not want to leave Jakku in fear of her parents never finding her. Whereas Luke is a farmboy who has a family living a simple but safe life. Can't really take care of himself too well when getting in fights. Wants to get off his planet and leave everything behind. I would actually say they are far from opposite. Again I don't get other than her being the hero of the story. Again, a superficial quirk...that I don't know if any movie would have really escaped from.

Yes just like our world there is multiple deserts. Other than the fact that it is a desert, that's where the similarities stop:

Jakku-A desert planet that is now a massive graveyard of a gigantic battle that took place during the height of the Galactic War. Now people barley clinging on scavenge this planet to survive. You have a young female hero, that is tough as nails, is a loner, does not want to leave the planet in hopes that her family will return. Hardly survives the day to day life.

Tatooine (ANH) A backwater farming desert planet where not much happens. Luke is a young farmboy that would do anything to get away from his life there, that has really been quite mundane and boring. He seeks adventure and wants off the planet as soon as he can.

Again besides it being superficially a desert it ends there and the place is quite different.

Just because you see a green tree or a grain of sand does not equate to "carbon copy".

The First Order is far from the Empire and that's the greatness of the little quirks you pick up.


First Order- A small group of old Imperial Loyalists that have taken the ideals of the Empire and radicalized them in almost a religious fervor. They control only a small portion of the galaxy while the New Republic controls it all. There is a peace between them that is shattered in TFA. The New Republic does not see them as a threat, while Leia warns otherwise. This group radicalizes trying to take back what they think was theirs.

Galactic Empire-The massive uprising during the Clone Wars allowed Palpatine to create an iron fisted government that controlled everything in the Galaxy. Using fear and strict order to keep the galaxy in their control.

Again other than some of the visual cues of it being an old Imperial remnant group and having upgrades of their previous armor, TIE's ect. (See our military in the past 50 years and see how it's not some radically different ordeal). The group is akin to a neo-Imperialistic group that is trying to gain power where the rest of the Galaxy does not see them as a threat.

As for the McGuffin:

The Map to Luke Skywalker-It is the McGuffin of the entire plot. It centers around the villains and heroes searching for Luke. Which adds to the plot of his fallen apprentice and the destruction of his small Jedi Order. Him also running away to find the first Jedi Temple to help destroy this evil.

The Plans to the Death Star-It is the McGuffin of ANH. It centers around a destructive weapon that will make it harder for planets to dis-obey the Empire. Letting the Empire tighten it's grip and put fear into everyone. It is about them getting the plans to people that can help and destroying it.


As for the Resistance:


Resistance-The Resistance is a small spy group founded by Leia. The group has some support in the New Republic Senate. Leia has started this group because she knows the First Order is attempting to rise up and destroy everything. It is personal as well because Snoke stole her son.

Rebel Alliance-A band of many small systems and groups attempting to take over and destroy the evil Empire and restore the Republic to the galaxy.

Again besides having a small group against the bad guys (even smaller than the Rebellion) what the group is and it's purpose is quite different.


So my point is there are some plot beats from ANH, and some superficial visual nods to it. But everything has a context of it's own. It's not just Tatooine 2.0, not even close. Same with Rey, she is not like Luke at all, other than she is the main hero of the film. The points being made of "Hey it's like ANH" are mainly visual. I feel some are missing out of 95% of the other parts of the film, because they are focusing on what they want to focus on. Sometimes I think it's just people want to lay blame to JJ for it because he wears his "nerdy" on his sleeve. (Fun tip the Starkiller base was not JJ's idea it was Michael Ardnt's in February of 2013. Later turned into what the weapon was by Denis Mirren of ILM).

On a very superficial level yes, there was homage to what came before. But the meat and potatoes of TFA is extremely different. The complex characters and their relationships that were forged were the heart of the entire aspect of this film. And the two leads: Kylo/Rey trying to find Luke Skywalker.
 
Mainly the stuff about it borrowing too heavily from the previous films, from particular shots all the way to the main plot involving Starkiller Base. I think that's a legit criticism of the film.

Doing homages to the original trilogy was a smart move on JJ and Disney's part. Disney isn't going to pay billions of dollars to make new Star wars films and gamble on that by making the first new movie something that isn't going to win back some of the fan base that felt disappointed by the prequels.

After the prequels criticism and some people were wary of more new Star Wars films. Making a movie that captured elements of what people loved about the franchise to begin with was a solid calculated move.

You always knew we were getting something populist and made by a fan with fans in mind when they announced JJ Abrams was directing.

It is a solid business strategy to draw crowds in with something they are familiar with before giving them something completely different with the next movie.

If anyone has been paying attention to the new Star Wars films press coverage they would of heard Lawrence Kasdan and Kathleen Kennedy say multiple times that Rian Johnson's Star Wars film is going to be very different to what we have seen before from the franchise.

Kasdan said
These movies will all be so different. [Episode 8 director] Rian Johnson is a friend of mine — he’s going to make some weird thing.

‘If you’ve seen Rian’s work, you know it’s not going be like anything that’s ever been in Star Wars.
‘You couldn’t have three more different people than JJ, Rian and Colin [Trevorrow, who’s directing Episode 9].’
 

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