Is Marvel Relying Too Much On Nostalgia And Fanservice?

It's literally a deleted scene.
That means it wasn't in the final product for a reason.
From the very beginning of this conversation I told you this was besides the point.
And even then nothing about that scene indicates he's Fox Quicksilver just that he was the Jimmy Woo was looking for.
Evan Peters was chosen for the fakeout role because of his actual Marvel role in the past. So that absolutely was Marvel Studios relying on nostalgia.
They had the exact same role of being alternate universe superheroes who died at Wanda's hands.
He's just the only one that was related to the X-Men.
Key words are bolded. As I said in my first response to you, Dr. Strange 2 relied on some nostalgia too.
No you're not,
Yes I am. I've repeated my points to you many times, you've just chosen not to acknowledge them.
nothing you said even remotely explained how the Marvels as a movie relied entirely on Beast's 10 second cameo that happens after the credits
It was longer than 10 seconds. Beast's cameo was arguably the most talked about aspect of the movie.
nor how the other movies weren't relying on their cameos, even though they're all the exact same thing of teasing what's coming up next for the characters in the MCU.
I'm just gonna copy & paste what I wrote to you before

yeah but they're not teasing characters played by actors who have played Marvel characters in the past. Kelsey Grammer on the other hand is a legacy Marvel actor, a title that neither RDJ, Elizabeth Olsen, or Aaron Taylor-Johnson had in 2008 or 2014 respectively.
 
From the very beginning of this conversation I told you this was besides the point.
Then stop talking about it, you keep bringing it up.

Evan Peters was chosen for the fakeout role because of his actual Marvel role in the past. So that absolutely was Marvel Studios relying on nostalgia.
A red herring isn't relying on nostalgia, especially when the whole point is that wasn't him it was someone else entirely.

Key words are bolded. As I said in my first response to you, Dr. Strange 2 relied on some nostalgia too.
That's was not a response to what I just said.
You addressed literally nothing in my post.

Yes I am. I've repeated my points to you many times, you've just chosen not to acknowledge them
You don't have any points, you just keep repeating the same things multiple times, while pretending they make an argument.

It was longer than 10 seconds. Beast's cameo was arguably the most talked about aspect of the movie.

I'm just gonna copy & paste what I wrote to you before

yeah but they're not teasing characters played by actors who have played Marvel characters in the past. Kelsey Grammer on the other hand is a legacy Marvel actor, a title that neither RDJ, Elizabeth Olsen, or Aaron Taylor-Johnson had in 2008 or 2014 respectively.
These prove my point exactly, you're completely incapable of explaining how the Marvels was reliant on Beasts cameo so you keep repeating the same stuff over and over.
How is the story reliant on Beast's presence? The themes? The characters? The morals?
Until you can answer that there is nothing that makes the Marvels anymore reliant on Beast than the Winter Soldier was reliant on Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.
 
Then stop talking about it, you keep bringing it up.
I can talk about whatever I want. As @Spider-Fan said, you can feel free to ignore us. I am talking about it only because you decided to harp on the subject.
A red herring isn't relying on nostalgia, especially when the whole point is that wasn't him it was someone else entirely.
I disagree. The red herring was for the fans, not even for the plot. It was dangled in front of fans because Evan Peters played Quicksilver in the past.
That's was not a response to what I just said.
You addressed literally nothing in my post.
Yes it was. You're just choosing to ignore it.
You don't have any points, you just keep repeating the same things multiple times, while pretending they make an argument.
I explained my points to you. I made my argument. I've repeated myself multiple times, you've just chosen to disregard them all.
These prove my point exactly, you're completely incapable of explaining how the Marvels was reliant on Beasts cameo so you keep repeating the same stuff over and over.
What do you mean? Beast's cameo was arguably the most talked about aspect of the movie. It's also an example of Marvel relying on nostalgia. It's simple.

I keep repeating the same things over and over because you keep dismissing them.
How is the story reliant on Beast's presence? The themes? The characters? The morals?
That's not for me to answer. I never said the story relied on Beast's presence, or the themes, or the characters, or the morals. I said Captain Marvel 2 is an example of Marvel relying on nostalgia. That's it.
Until you can answer that there is nothing that makes the Marvels anymore reliant on Beast than the Winter Soldier was reliant on Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver.
I disagree. Beast's cameo in Captain Marvel 2 is different from the other cameos for reasons I already explained. Do you want me to copy & paste again?

they're not teasing characters played by actors who have played Marvel characters in the past. Kelsey Grammer on the other hand is a legacy Marvel actor, a title that neither RDJ, Elizabeth Olsen, or Aaron Taylor-Johnson had in 2008 or 2014 respectively.
 
The reliance on nostalgia isn't necessarily about 1 project being overloaded with it and living and dying by it. So far, only NWH and D&W would be defined that way. As will Doomsday/SW given the RDJ thing and whoever else is included. But it's a trend. Yes, Beast is a cameo. Yes, Patrick Stewart is a cameo. These projects are not literally built on these characters. But Marvel is still using them and their future appearances as ways to get the internet talking, create buzz, and the fact all we keep hearing anymore is more about who may cameo in later movies than anything else shows a concrete shift in their approach. They're not prioritizing making a MCU Beast. They're prioritizing whatever they think will sell better. In this case, nostalgia is more valuable. That's why RDJ is getting over 100 mil to be Doctor Doom. That's why Feige is saying Wolverine won't be recast anytime soon. The nostalgia trend is very real.
 
Deadpool is the one where I think it absolutely needed to happen given the referential comedic tone of the character. It would be unusual if it didn't have these things. I didn't mind it in NWH or MoM either, but it does feel like it is starting to become a little too much of a trend. I'm not going to go so far as to say I'm concerned per say, but cautious might be a more appropriate word.
 
doesn't stories like Secret Wars (which was huge crossover event in the comics) kinda rely on such cameos, too, tho

to call that nostalgia or fanservice isn't really right either... as that is the plot

sure, they could not use references to previous franchise an actually introduce the MCU versions of each of these characters


but, really aren't all comic book movies reliant on nostalgia and fanservice to some degree...

we know of these characters and want to see them on the big screen because we read the comics, watched the cartoons or saw the classic movies even (whatever other of media form) as kids

sometime I wish I could view these from a "general audience" POV, who doesn't know the source material (which I'm not an expert on all things comic book related) so, when we do get characters that I'm not as familiar with, it is kinda exciting an new to me...
 
I can talk about whatever I want. As @Spider-Fan said, you can feel free to ignore us. I am talking about it only because you decided to harp on the subject.
You don't get to say that in a conversation when it's something you brought up and continued to talk about.

I disagree. The red herring was for the fans, not even for the plot. It was dangled in front of fans because Evan Peters played Quicksilver in the past.
It was absolutely for the plot unless you just didn't watch Wandavision or somehow missed the obvious plot point that Wanda's grief was causing her to go out of control, and how much of the show was based on being meta about sitcoms.

I don't doubt that either those things but still.

Yes it was. You're just choosing to ignore it.

I explained my points to you. I made my argument. I've repeated myself multiple times, you've just chosen to disregard them all.
You don't have points to ignore, you just say the same dumb stuff over and over because you're incapable of making a real argument.

That's not for me to answer. I never said the story relied on Beast's presence, or the themes, or the characters, or the morals. I said Captain Marvel 2 is an example of Marvel relying on nostalgia. That's it.
You said multiple times The Marvels relied on Beasts cameo, and kept repeating "that's the most talked about thing!", when pointed out it wasn't.
And now you're switching goalposts because I asked questions you incapable of answering.

I disagree. Beast's cameo in Captain Marvel 2 is different from the other cameos for reasons I already explained. Do you want me to copy & paste again?

they're not teasing characters played by actors who have played Marvel characters in the past. Kelsey Grammer on the other hand is a legacy Marvel actor, a title that neither RDJ, Elizabeth Olsen, or Aaron Taylor-Johnson had in 2008 or 2014 respectively.
See even now you're still saying the Marvels was reliant on Beasts cameo.
You completely switch talking points when it's most convenient and not because you actually know what you're talking about.
 
You don't get to say that
I just did. And I'll say it again.
when it's something you brought up and continued to talk about.
as I told you, the reason why I continued to talk about it is because you were harping on the subject. and I brought it up in the first place to point out that there is more to the character than meets the eye.
It was absolutely for the plot unless you just didn't watch Wandavision or somehow missed the obvious plot point that Wanda's grief was causing her to go out of control, and how much of the show was based on being meta about sitcoms.

I don't doubt that either those things but still.
I did watch Wandavision from beginning and obviously casting Evan Peters as a fakeout Quicksilver was to trick the fan base. Wanda is not like Deadpool where she can break the fourth wall and get the meta joke that this actor portrayed her brother in an alternate cinematic universe.

only the audience knows that. hence, the audience was tricked. they cast Evan Peters for that reason.
You don't have points to ignore, you just say the same dumb stuff over and over because you're incapable of making a real argument.
okay, now you are getting personal and I don't appreciate that. you wanna disagree? you can feel free to disagree. or better yet, agree to disagree with me. but if you can't keep a mutual respect while having this discussion, then this isn't the place for you to discuss the topic.
You said multiple times The Marvels relied on Beasts cameo, and kept repeating "that's the most talked about thing!", when pointed out it wasn't.
You never "pointed out" that Beast's cameo wasn't the most talked about aspect. you either just kept disagreeing saying it wasn't, or you ignored the point entirely.
And now you're switching goalposts because I asked questions you incapable of answering.
I honestly don't even know what you're talking about. Is it Quicksilver? Beast? the twins? what exactly did you ask me that you claim I am incapable of answering?
See even now you're still saying the Marvels was reliant on Beasts cameo.
yeah, I have been saying that this whole time, my point has remained the same...
You completely switch talking points when it's most convenient and not because you actually know what you're talking about.
LOL what? no I didn't...literally from my first quoted post to you I told you that Captain Marvel 2 had a legacy X-Men cameo.
 
I just did. And I'll say it again.
Ok so you don't understand how conversations work.
That makes sense.

as I told you, the reason why I continued to talk about it is because you were harping on the subject. and I brought it up in the first place to point out that there is more to the character than meets the eye.
You kept bringing it up to try and say they were implying he was actually Fox Quicksilver.

did watch Wandavision from beginning and obviously casting Evan Peters as a fakeout Quicksilver was to trick the fan base. Wanda is not like Deadpool where she can break the fourth wall and get the meta joke that this actor portrayed her brother in an alternate cinematic universe.

only the audience knows that. hence, the audience was tricked. they cast Evan Peters for that reason.
You're proving my point, that you didn't watch or understand Wandavision at all.
Bringing in Evan Peter's was both a red herring for the audience to think he was Quicksilver and a play on how sitcoms recast characters and have special guest appearances, much of the show was being meta about the nature of sitcoms, because Wanda's hex had turned Westview into a sitcom.
And was to show how deluded Wanda was becoming that she would believe a guy who looks nothing like Pietro did was him.
The show basically screams these things at the viewers and you're apparently unable to grasp them

okay, now you are getting personal and I don't appreciate that. you wanna disagree? you can feel free to disagree. or better yet, agree to disagree with me. but if you can't keep a mutual respect while having this discussion, then this isn't the place for you to discuss the topic.
I'd have respect for someone who actually deserves it, not someone who's proven multiple times to be completely incapable of making an argument.

You never "pointed out" that Beast's cameo wasn't the most talked about aspect. you either just kept disagreeing saying it wasn't, or you ignored the point entirely.
This proves everything I've said so far.
Not one point being made or debated here just you repeating the same stupid thing again and again.

honestly don't even know what you're talking about. Is it Quicksilver? Beast? the twins? what exactly did you ask me that you claim I am incapable of answering?
You haven't known what I've been talking about this entire time, and I've tried explaining it to you, you just lack comprehension.


yeah, I have been saying that this whole time, my point has remained the same...
Like me say this in simple terms even you should be able to understand, even though I doubt you will.
If the characters, plot, themes and morals of the Marvels do not rely on Beasts cameo, then fundamentally the movie doesn't rely on Beast having a cameo, and you agreed that Beasts presence has no effect on those things, now you're saying it does.

LOL what? no I didn't...literally from my first quoted post to you I told you that Captain Marvel 2 had a legacy X-Men cameo.
Yes you did multiple times, you just did it in this same post, going from "The Marvels themes characters and story don't rely on Beast" to "It does and I've said that the entire time!"
 
Can the condescension. You can easily make the same points without the personal shots. Keep it up and I am issuing infractions and possibly issuing a mandatory vacation if this continues. Debate the points without the personal shots. If this is too much to ask of you, go somewhere else
 
Ok so you don't understand how conversations work.
That makes sense.
A conversation is when two or more people converse. That's what we have been doing, having a conversation so yeah...makes sense.
You kept bringing it up to try and say they were implying he was actually Fox Quicksilver.
I brought it up in my first response to you, and we kept talking about it because you decided to harp on the subject.
You're proving my point, that you didn't watch or understand Wandavision at all.
I did watch & understand Wandavision. you don't know me, and you also don't know what you're talking about.
Bringing in Evan Peter's was both a red herring for the audience to think he was Quicksilver and a play on how sitcoms recast characters and have special guest appearances, much of the show was being meta about the nature of sitcoms, because Wanda's hex had turned Westview into a sitcom.
And was to show how deluded Wanda was becoming that she would believe a guy who looks nothing like Pietro did was him.
bringing in Evan Peters was a red herring only for the audience. the whole notion of recasting characters and Wanda being deluded could have worked with any Hollywood actor who fit the role, but it wouldn't have mattered in Wanda's eyes. the affect for her would have been the same, but it would have been different for the audience. and since Marvel didn't do that and went with an actor who played Quicksilver in the past, it specifically was to trick the audience.
The show basically screams these things at the viewers and you're apparently unable to grasp them
the show wasn't "basically screaming" these things at the viewers. look, either you didn't grasp certain things, or you are just so desperate to feel validated that you are having this discussion in an unfriendly manner to make me feel some way.
I'd have respect for someone who actually deserves it, not someone who's proven multiple times to be completely incapable of making an argument.
if your instinct is to purposefully be disrespectful to someone who disagrees with you, then like I said, this isn't the place for you.
This proves everything I've said so far.
Not one point being made or debated here just you repeating the same stupid thing again and again.
I've repeated myself because you've ignored what I said. also, you're not being very nice.
You haven't known what I've been talking about this entire time, and I've tried explaining it to you, you just lack comprehension.
you're being very mean. and you also didn't answer my question.
Like me say this in simple terms even you should be able to understand, even though I doubt you will.
...what? I'm just being honest with you here, I don't know what you mean.
If the characters, plot, themes and morals of the Marvels do not rely on Beasts cameo, then fundamentally the movie doesn't rely on Beast having a cameo, and you agreed that Beasts presence has no effect on those things, now you're saying it does.
I never said anything about the characters, plot, themes, or morals of the movie. what I said was, Beast's cameo was the most talked about aspect of the movie. do you agree? if not, then no, I never agreed with you on that.
Yes you did multiple times, you just did it in this same post, going from "The Marvels themes characters and story don't rely on Beast" to "It does and I've said that the entire time!"
I literally never said anything about Captain Marvel 2's story relying or not relying on Beast. I said the cameo was arguably, the most talked about aspect of the movie.
 
And Jewel Runner is gone for 3 months for that post. We will see them again on New Year's Eve and the attitude better improve if they plan on posting here in the distant future
 
I look forward to the day when both of the major studios get back to telling individual, self contained , stories focusing on these characters individual journeys , as opposed to the solo filming being chapters in a larger overarching, interconnected, storylines stuff , which leads up to a team up film.

I look forward to the day when the pendulum ,in Hollywood at least, swings back to the other director for the vast majority of CBM projects.

Alot of that will be dependent on the response of filmgoing audience for sure, but I do miss the films like Spiderman 2, X2, and even Batman 89, which weren't dependent on shared universes, multiverses, crossovers etc to tell a story.

A single hero versus a Single villain , with the stakes being life or death of the characters in that story, as opposed to the end of the multiverse, variants, infinite earths, etc.

I look forward to the day when the X Men are focused on dealing with the struggles of being a mutant , as opposed to their variants fighting on Battleworld.

I wanna get back to a film where Peter Parker is struggling to make rent, get over a girl, and defeat a single foe, before his midterms .

Just those simpler stories ,with smaller stakes , which may not be Billion dollar cash cows, but that connect with general audiences and fans alike.

I do think the pendulum will swing back in that direction eventually, as the pendulum always swings from one extreme to another, but it feels like it's gonna be several years before we get there.
 
Technically, Marvel/DC have been relying on "nostalgia" for decades. The MCU brought most of our childhood heroes from the 60s to the big screen for the first time. Relying on our previous knowledge and love of those characters was the biggest selling point.
 
Technically, Marvel/DC have been relying on "nostalgia" for decades. The MCU brought most of our childhood heroes from the 60s to the big screen for the first time. Relying on our previous knowledge and love of those characters was the biggest selling point.
I don't think employing nostalgia in and of itself is bad. it's good and it can be great, but when there is a reliance on nostalgia, THAT's when the film studios come off as desperate.

the MCU is bringing back legacy actors from previous Marvel films, and they're just banking box office successes from that front. it worked great with NwH, it worked great with Dr. Strange 2, unfortunately the cameo didn't create enough hype after the fact for Captain Marvel 2, but it also worked great with Deadpool 3. the strategy is working out for them but sooner or later I do think the novelty will wear off with the casual audience.

the fact that they are bringing their very own star legacy actor back for Av4 & rumors point to MCU Spider-Man 4 doing NwH 2.0 iare indications that they are relying too much on nostalgia and fan service, just like the thread title says :pensive:
 
I don't think employing nostalgia in and of itself is bad. it's good and it can be great, but when there is a reliance on nostalgia, THAT's when the film studios come off as desperate.

the MCU is bringing back legacy actors from previous Marvel films, and they're just banking box office successes from that front. it worked great with NwH, it worked great with Dr. Strange 2, unfortunately the cameo didn't create enough hype after the fact for Captain Marvel 2, but it also worked great with Deadpool 3. the strategy is working out for them but sooner or later I do think the novelty will wear off with the casual audience.

the fact that they are bringing their very own star legacy actor back for Av4 & rumors point to MCU Spider-Man 4 doing NwH 2.0 iare indications that they are relying too much on nostalgia and fan service, just like the thread title says :pensive:

Marvel have plenty of projects in the works that are not relying on legacy actors or fan service. Agatha All Along is currently streaming. Last year we had Werewolf by Night for Halloween. Cap4 is looking good.

I don't see RDJ coming back as a reliance on nostalgia right now, I want to see the final product before judging it but at first glance it does reek of desperation. The only 2 films that I would say Marvel relied on the nostalgia are Deadpool 3 and NWH.
 
Marvel have plenty of projects in the works that are not relying on legacy actors or fan service. Agatha All Along is currently streaming. Last year we had Werewolf by Night for Halloween. Cap4 is looking good.

I don't see RDJ coming back as a reliance on nostalgia right now, I want to see the final product before judging it but at first glance it does reek of desperation. The only 2 films that I would say Marvel relied on the nostalgia are Deadpool 3 and NWH.
it seems like the projects that have higher budgets are the ones allocating more towards the overarching multiversal plot. I've been watching AAA with my wife. I almost forget sometimes that I'm watching a Marvel show, but that's not a bad thing either. I dig it, I dig the purple Halloween vibes that it gives off.

RDJ on the other hand, I absolutely feel like that's them desperately relying on nostalgia. and they've gone beyond relying on the nostalgia of legacy Marvel movies; it's moved onto the legacy of the MCU itself since he's the star that started it all.

I think Dr. Strange 2 and to a lesser extent, Captain Marvel 2 also relied on nostalgia.
 
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I think the recent influx of nostalgia makes a bit of sense since they are gearing up for Secret Wars. But we will see...
 
The non-MCU actors joining the MCU/RDJ returning as a different character, are basically the Infinity Stones of this Multiverse Saga.

I still don't think its too much nostalgia, given these projects from phase 4 to 5
-Thunderbolts*
-Captain America legacy movie
-WandaVision
-Falcon and the Winter Soldier
-Hawkeye
-Ms. Marvel
-Moon Knight
-She Hulk: Attorney-at-Law
-Secret Invasion
-Echo
-Ironheart
-Werewolf by Night
-Shang-Chi
-Eternals
-Black Widow prequel
-Fantastic 4 with new actors

Most are continuations from what happened post Endgame. Some are in "legacy character" territory but a real nostalgia would have been in the same level as Deadpool & Wolverine and Spider-Man No Way Home. Still no No Way Home sequel with the other Spider-Men. A Wolverine solo movie starring Hugh isn't greenlit yet, so as solo movies for Wesley Blade, Jennifer Garner, Ben Affleck as DD, a Ghost Rider film with Nicholas Cage and a brand new X-Men film with the X-Men's OT cast. Most of the Netflix era actors are still under Marvel TV and not making a big leap into the big screen in a major role, which imo, what they should have done with Charlie Cox's Daredevil and that would have looked like an upgrade rather than boxing the new DD story once again in a streaming service.
 
After endgame everybody thought the general point of view was marvel needed some seperation time before making more but marvel just kept going. Marvel to some seems like a rush to put things out; where as others feel its slower then before with all the chaos going with blade being delayed again. and things like that. On top of all that there's the issue where Marvel wants fans to feel like its never ending so they went to RDJ cause fans know him well and hes a sure thing but fans were also confused as to why they'd use a likeable hero to be a villain too... etc.
 
Phase4 should have been a breather. But they doubled the amount of projects by releasing several Disney+ shows annually.

Even this year, with only 1 movie that came out, there's still two other shows and X-Men '97. There's been so much content from the last 4 years that it still feels a bit too much even if there was only 1 movie that came out this year. Plus the trailer for Brave New World and Thunderbolts* are already out, so they aren't really giving anyone the time to miss the Mcu because there are so many projects that are in the works. I would love for them to go back in releasing 2 movies per year.
 
After endgame everybody thought the general point of view was marvel needed some seperation time before making more but marvel just kept going. Marvel to some seems like a rush to put things out; where as others feel its slower then before with all the chaos going with blade being delayed again. and things like that. On top of all that there's the issue where Marvel wants fans to feel like its never ending so they went to RDJ cause fans know him well and hes a sure thing but fans were also confused as to why they'd use a likeable hero to be a villain too... etc.

Phase4 should have been a breather. But they doubled the amount of projects by releasing several Disney+ shows annually.

Even this year, with only 1 movie that came out, there's still two other shows and X-Men '97. There's been so much content from the last 4 years that it still feels a bit too much even if there was only 1 movie that came out this year. Plus the trailer for Brave New World and Thunderbolts* are already out, so they aren't really giving anyone the time to miss the Mcu because there are so many projects that are in the works. I would love for them to go back in releasing 2 movies per year.
yeah I pretty much agree with both of these. I read somewhere in 2020 or 2021 that the MCU narratively would be a little different after Endgame & FFH, but instead they just doubled or even tripled for all I know, the amount of content they had every year. they bit off more than they could chew, and a lot of what they were chewing wasn't good.
 
I think the recent influx of nostalgia makes a bit of sense since they are gearing up for Secret Wars. But we will see...
They are using the non mcu actors for their advantage. And in a way, makes it different from the Infinity Saga.
 
they started off phase 4 with it. Wandavision had the Ralph Bohner fakeout. Dr. Strange 2 also had an X-Men cameo. Captain Marvel 2 also had an X-Men cameo, which may have been the most talked about aspect of the movie.

edit: Dr. Strange 2's X-Men cameo is more like a small supporting role than a cameo.

How is Ralph Bohner a nostalgia character when Fox's Quicksilver was introduced in 2014 and last appeared in 2019?
 
Lets call a spade a spade guys, the nostalgia reliant projects (No Way Home and Deadpool and Wolverine) are the ones getting the most attention post Endgame thus it FEEL like Marvel is relying on nostalgia. But…they’re really not.

Marvel has released a boatload of films since 2021 and almost all of them were standalone films introducing new characters. NWH was a novelty at the time and blew up the box office. After NWH we had twenty other projects come and go to varying degrees of success that had nothing to do with the multiverse (except Dr Strange 2). then comes the return of Hugh Jackman and the box office is blown up again. Its creating the perception that the nostalgia multiverse movies are the only ones that have worked.
 

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