Is Sabretooth the son of Dog Logan?

[danoyse]

He has to fight a warrior or something every time he gets massively injured in order to come back.

Yeah, according to the last arc he faces off the Angel of Death every time he's mortally injured, and when he wins the fight he comes back. That's been the deal ever since he defeated the Angel on a battlefield in WWI. In this arc he loses the fight after swallowing a bomb, and is left in a brain-dead coma for several weeks, until he's rescued by Dr. Strange.

It explains that when he was killed by the Hand in Enemy of the State, they kept a part of his soul when he was resurrected that has since never returned to him, which is supposed to explain why he's survived all of these recent major injuries. Basically, they never killed all of him because his soul was not intact, so part of him always survives.

He has now retrieved the missing part of his soul, which means his healing factor is now back to "normal" and the next time he dies, it will be for good.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Yeah, according to the last arc he faces off the Angel of Death every time he's mortally injured, and when he wins the fight he comes back. That's been the deal ever since he defeated the Angel on a battlefield in WWI. In this arc he loses the fight after swallowing a bomb, and is left in a brain-dead coma for several weeks, until he's rescued by Dr. Strange.

It explains that when he was killed by the Hand in Enemy of the State, they kept a part of his soul when he was resurrected that has since never returned to him, which is supposed to explain why he's survived all of these recent major injuries. Basically, they never killed all of him because his soul was not intact, so part of him always survives.

He has now retrieved the missing part of his soul, which means his healing factor is now back to "normal" and the next time he dies, it will be for good.

Wow...that's pretty stupid.

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah, according to the last arc he faces off the Angel of Death every time he's mortally injured, and when he wins the fight he comes back. That's been the deal ever since he defeated the Angel on a battlefield in WWI. In this arc he loses the fight after swallowing a bomb, and is left in a brain-dead coma for several weeks, until he's rescued by Dr. Strange.

It explains that when he was killed by the Hand in Enemy of the State, they kept a part of his soul when he was resurrected that has since never returned to him, which is supposed to explain why he's survived all of these recent major injuries. Basically, they never killed all of him because his soul was not intact, so part of him always survives.

He has now retrieved the missing part of his soul, which means his healing factor is now back to "normal" and the next time he dies, it will be for good.

No one ever dies for good in the Marvel Universe. Wolverine's already died a bazillion times already.

 

[danoyse]

I'm sure he'll die for the *final* time and then be magically resurrected before the year is out.

 

[Deep Thinkin'!]

Where did you hear this? Last I heard the story from Origin wasn't even included, and it had Logan being a young kid in the 1950's.

In the comics, Wolverine was born early 1900's, so he'd be grown by the 1950's.

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

I just found out that Aaron Jeffery who had been rumored to be playing Dog Logan, just wrapped the Australian film Beautiful with Jackman's wife Deborra Lee-Furness. This could be a puzzle piece as to his rumored involvement with the film being real.

Oh and Deep Thinkin'!, according to Origin, Wolverine was born in the late 1880s.

-TL

 

[Deep Thinkin'!]

Oh and Deep Thinkin'!, according to Origin, Wolverine was born in the late 1880s.

-TL

Awesome, thank you. Makes my point even firmer.

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

I love the idea that by the time he got together with the X-Men he was older than Xavier.

I don't think the man is Legendary because he kills so efficiently, I think he's a Legend because he's been around so long. Like a ghost. In the continuity of the films he's 100+ years. That explains his sense of fashion and disdain for modern technology. It also explains his key physical characteristic: His mutton chops, which have been out of style for a hundred years.

-TL

 

[Infinity9999x]

In the comics, Wolverine was born early 1900's, so he'd be grown by the 1950's.

Late 1800's actually, but he wouldn't still be a 12 year old in 1950, and that's what the script review in Latino review had him as.

And Thomas Logan, again, where have you heard the rumor that Dog Logan or Thomas Logan are even in this moive? The impression I got from the script review a while back was that they pretty much scrapped the Origin story line and had Wolverine being a young boy in the 1950s.

 

[TromaFreak64]

Late 1800's actually, but he wouldn't still be a 12 year old in 1950, and that's what the script review in Latino review had him as.

And Thomas Logan, again, where have you heard the rumor that Dog Logan or Thomas Logan are even in this moive? The impression I got from the script review a while back was that they pretty much scrapped the Origin story line and had Wolverine being a young boy in the 1950s.

I've heard the same. That he is a in like junior high in the 1950's when the football playing scene goes down. It does not seem to sync up with origins from everything I've read - even though Jackman himself has been very vocal about his like for Origins.

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

After seeing There Will Be Blood, I'm positive that the 1910s mining scenario could work in a feature film. I would actually prefer to see that more than Japan (which apparently we're getting).

Infinity9999x, if you go a few posts back you'll see that I shed some light on where I got the Jeffery intel from. I know the script points to a young Logan in the 50s, but like TromaFreak64 said - Jackman really enjoyed Origin and that might be one of the film's biggest surprises.

-TL

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

A large clue to the involvement of the Origin story in X-Men Origins: Wolverine...

Victor Creed/Sabretooth - We expect the introduction of Victor Creed into Logan's world to be similar to the comic book history. Logan first encounters Creed when the two are living in the same Canadian frontier community during the 1910s. Sabretooth intimidates everyone in the village except for Logan, a young man he suspects has feral mutant abilities similar to his own. He is also resentful of the relationship between Logan and an Indian girl named Silver Fox. Creed makes a pass at the young woman, but she rejects his advances. He assaults her and leaves her for dead. The first of many ferocious clashes between Logan and Creed then ensuses. Creed and Logan part ways, but are later reunited, their memories altered, as part of the CIA's Team X. We anticipate a much less dimwitted version of Sabretooth than was presented in the original X-Men.

That description posted by IGN, is perfectly aligned with the Origin timeline. Wolverine was in his late 20s in the 1910s according to Origin.

I'M GETTING HYPED!!!

-TL

 

[logansoldcigar]

I think there is a possibility of Dog becoming Sabretooth. It would make a whole lot of sense because once again Wolverine has murdered another man's father, driving this other man to a quest of chaotic revenge. Its like the Logan family legacy:

"We kill each other's loved ones and then we run into the forest to cool off."

The reason I believe Dog is in fact more likely to be Sabretooth's father, is his behavior in Origin. He seems less agressive and his attacks are much different from those Sabretooth's is best known for. I think the mutation on Dog was the same as his father Thomas. They were vulnerable to serious flesh wounds - unlike Wolverine and Sabretooth, which would be 2nd and 3rd generation Logans. Wolverine easily killed Thomas (which had claws) at the age of 13, and then killed Dog the same way 15 years later. The permanent marks on Dog's adult face prove that these original Logans did not possess the advanced healing factor the later Logans would adquire.They did have some mutant qualities though: Thomas had the claws (as seen on Elizabeth Howlett's back) and Dog had the strength - making him capable of putting up a fight against Wolverine.

Anyway if Dog truly is Sabretooth, then Jeffery couldn't be playing him. I can't pinpoint the article that spoke of Jeffery's involvement, but I remember it did say "Jeffery will be playing Wolverine's brother." There was also another article from an Australian source, where Jeffery talked about it as a "possibility" and mentioned it was a period piece. This was back in November, so I doubt the script went into total rewrite mode during the last three months. "Period piece" smells like the 20s to me, not the 50s.

But hey, we'll find out...

-TL

Did i miss something? as far as i remember, Thomas never had claws (or was never shown to), the implication and suggestion was that the first (and allegedly dead) Howlett child, John, had caused those scars. This suggests that the mutation was in Elizabeth Howlett's blood line, not in the Logan family bloodline. (although i always used to, and still do, think that Dog Logan will turn out to be Sabertooth in the long run)

so Ill throw another thing out for discussion: what if Dog and James are full brothers: Both parents the same, and for whatever reason (maybe to keep him quiet) one of the children, the one that appeared to be fitter and healthier, stayed with Thomas. especially if, at that point in time, John Howlett was still alive, so there were still a male heir for the Howlett family

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

Logansoldcigar, you're forgetting something.

Thomas Logan looks exactly like Wolverine.

And the claw marks on Elizabeth's back where too long to belong to a child. 12 year old James' claws were 4-5 inches, the marks on her back were a full Wolverine-approved 9 inches.

Dog Logan could not have been Elizabeth's son. The Howletts's would have picked up on it. He was older than James and they would not have allowed her to give him up to the groundskeeper for whatever reason. That's yet another reason why Dog hated James. He had a mom.

Also, its clear that Thomas knew he was capable of killing Henry without the use of a gun, why he chose to make that his weapon of choice when killing him riddles me.

-TL

 

[logansoldcigar]

Logansoldcigar, you're forgetting something.

Thomas Logan looks exactly like Wolverine.

And the claw marks on Elizabeth's back where too long to belong to a child. 12 year old James' claws were 4-5 inches, the marks on her back were a full Wolverine-approved 9 inches.

Dog Logan could not have been Elizabeth's son. The Howletts's would have picked up on it. He was older than James and they would not have allowed her to give him up to the groundskeeper for whatever reason. That's yet another reason why Dog hated James. He had a mom.

Also, its clear that Thomas knew he was capable of killing Henry without the use of a gun, why he chose to make that his weapon of choice when killing him riddles me.

-TL

1)I agree, Thomas is james father. no doubting that.But it doesnt mean the mutation runs through his family line. It could run through hers. (and that wouldnt be the howlett family line either).

2)If you drag the tip of a one inch blade for 9 inches, it leaves a 9 inch cut. If you drag the tip of a 9 inch blade for 1 inch, it leaves a 1 inch cut. The length of claw dont matter, its how long it makes contact with the skin that determines the length of the scar. i would suggest, that if Thomas Logan had caused the cuts on Elizabeth Howlett's back, they would have shot him. No messing about.

3)Dog would have hated james for having a mother even if he had been elizabeth's son. he was still brought up without one.(and yeah, the howletts would have noticed, she would have been pregnant for 9 months. bit of a give away, that)
would the howlett's have given him up? probably not, but what if Dog and john were twins? "give me one of the boys, or Ill tell the whole town you couldnt satisfy yer wife and she needed me to do it". Many a mans pride can be got at, and in those days, the suggestion that she had been sleeping with the groundsman becoming public knowledge would have destroyed them as a whole family, not just destroyed her reputation.

4)Thomas Logan would have considered he could kill henry with his bare hands because he was a working man, not some lad di dah fancy posh fella who had never even got his hands dirty, and couldnt satisfy his own wife.
no need for claws, he just would have considered it to be the way of things.

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

logansoldcigar, You bring up great points.

It is possible that Thomas wasn't a mutant. Your point on the claws makes total sense. I think Marvel shouldn't have drawn those scars to look like the claws themselves. I also agree that he coulda killed Henry with his bare hands. No need for the claws there either.

And your theory on the twins is very good. John and Dog would be the same age.

This is why I love Origin so much. The tragedy of the Logans cannot be matched by any other Marvel story. It took 30 years in the making but it was well worth the wait.

The only thing that made me believe Thomas Logan was indeed another Wolverine, was the concept that also applies to Ghost Rider which they may have been trying to establish: There has always been one. A Wolverine. In a way Thomas represents what Logan coulda turned into. A jaded drunk who's love for a woman drove him mad.

Compare the Thomas Logan photo above to this cover of Wolverine:

Like father like son?

-TL

 

[Congo Jack]

It took 30 years in the making but it was well worth the wait.

Well, since Joey Q took over as Marvel Editor in Chief in September 2000, and Origin was released November 2001 - it's a lot closer to taking a year in the making.

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

I was obviously referring to the revelation of Wolverine's origin taking 30 years to be written, Jack.

-TL

 

[logansoldcigar]

I dont think anybody doubts that Thomas Logan was James' father. The set up in the early issues was designed to make us all think that Dog was actually Wolverine. From Common stock, the obvious physical similarity to who we know as wolverine, and so.

as for the series itself, i enjoyed it. I havent read anyof the origins material since, because, I dont know want to know.
i aslo feel, whatever they may have said, Dog was clearly designed to look like, and make us thgink (in the later issues) that he sabretooth. whether that turns out to be the case in the long run, who knows. they may never say. (thats the only other bit i would like to know)

 

[Infinity9999x]

logansoldcigar, You bring up great points.

It is possible that Thomas wasn't a mutant. Your point on the claws makes total sense. I think Marvel shouldn't have drawn those scars to look like the claws themselves. I also agree that he coulda killed Henry with his bare hands. No need for the claws there either.

And your theory on the twins is very good. John and Dog would be the same age.

This is why I love Origin so much. The tragedy of the Logans cannot be matched by any other Marvel story. It took 30 years in the making but it was well worth the wait.

The only thing that made me believe Thomas Logan was indeed another Wolverine, was the concept that also applies to Ghost Rider which they may have been trying to establish: There has always been one. A Wolverine. In a way Thomas represents what Logan coulda turned into. A jaded drunk who's love for a woman drove him mad.

Compare the Thomas Logan photo above to this cover of Wolverine:


Like father like son?

-TL

Thomas was meant to look like Wolverine, there was no question about that. They say that in the back of the Origin book. It was fairly obvious he was Logan's father.

However, I do not think that any of the creators meant for Thomas to have claws. There was no evidence of it. Not only that, his body is not equipped to handle the claws. Wolverine has an advanced healing system that allows his hands to heal instantly after he pops his claws. Thomas didn't have an accelerated healing system, as was shown by how Wolverine killed him.

If Thomas had claws, it would be extremely painful, and he would risk losing a large amount of blood from his hands.


Also, no where in Origins was it implied that there has always been a Wolverine. That was not an underlying theme. There's only been one Wolverine.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

I always thought the majority consensus was that Dog was Sabretooth.

 

[Balthus Dire]

I didn't think Dog was Sabretooth at all. His scars never healed and he posessed no notable mutant powers.

In regards to the scars on Wolverine's mother, I assumed they came from his deceased brother and that the family got rid of the kid when they found out he was a mutant. I recall her saying something along the lines of "Not you, James! Not you, too!"

I also don't think Dog came from Wolverine's mother either. I think both Howlett kids came from Thomas Logan having an affair with Wolvie's mother and Dog came from some other woman.

That's what I got out of it, anyway.

 

[THOMAS LOGAN]

Balthus Dire, we're on the same page.

You think Dog might be Sabretooth's father though?

-TL

 

[THE MR. TERRIFIC]

I never thought Dog was Sabretooth. Let's look at the facts. Sabretooth name is Victor Creed. He never had a problem remembering his past either. The son of Dog...maybe. If Dog changed his last name to Creed and then had Victor I could buy that. That would make Sabretooth Wolverines nephew. We all know Thomas Logan is his biological father and Dog was his half brother in essence. Ok I'm going to stop typing cause me brain hurts.

 

[TheVileOne]

As of right now there's no official evidence to really say that Dog Logan is Sabretooth. Its nothing more than speculation. It would make sense if he was though. Basically its not so until Marvel says it is, and even then its not firm if you take retcons into account.

There's no indication that Thomas Logan had claws or any kind of mutation. As for Dog Logan, for the Sabretooth argument, you can maybe say his mutant powers hadn't manifested yet, but that might not fly either. Then there's also the Loeb idea that people like Wolverine, Sabretooth, Wild Child, etc. are human like beings descended from wolves instead of primates. And that they aren't the traditional version of mutants at all.