Is Sabretooth the son of Dog Logan?

^True but mutation usually manifests at puberty. Dog still had 3 claw marks across his face when he faced Wolverine in the town. If in fact he was Sabretooth how would they explain the healing factor not kicking in that late in life?
 
GREAT discussion in here guys...I learned a lot about Wolverine from this thread alone...Thanks.

I have a question that hopefully Thomas, Infinity, or Vile One can answer...

Hasn't it been implied throughout the years that Sabretooth KNOWS Wolverine's past, But kind of taunts Logan with the fact that he knows, And hangs it over it his head?

I always thought Sabretooth had all the answers...He tries to kill Logan every year, And Logan still has NO IDEA why.
 
GREAT discussion in here guys...I learned a lot about Wolverine from this thread alone...Thanks.

I have a question that hopefully Thomas, Infinity, or Vile One can answer...

Hasn't it been implied throughout the years that Sabretooth KNOWS Wolverine's past, But kind of taunts Logan with the fact that he knows, And hangs it over it his head?

I always thought Sabretooth had all the answers...He tries to kill Logan every year, And Logan still has NO IDEA why.

It was always implied that Sabertooth knew more then Logan, but we were never sure of how much. We do know that Sabertooth's mind was tampered with by Weapon X the same as Logan's was, so he definitely doesn't know everything.

For example, Sabertooth once told Logan he was his father, and while he could have said that just to mess with Wolverine's head, later on in a comic when both Wolverine and Logan were hit with poison laced bullets they started to hallucinate, and Sabertooth started saying that he was Wolverine's father. That implied to me that Sabertooth honestly believed he was Logan's dad, which shows that Weapon X had implanted false memories into him.

Either that, or Creed's just nuts and invents his own memories. Either way, it's never been revealed exactly how much Sabes knows.
 
I didn't think Dog was Sabretooth at all. His scars never healed and he posessed no notable mutant powers.

While he possessed no notable mutant powers, I think a connection to Sabertooth was certainly implied. Dog ended up being huge, and to track Logan all the way into the Canadian wilderness is quite a feet, and we both know how good at tracking Wolverine and Creed are.

With the scars, I looked at it a few ways. 1) Sabertooth's mutant gene simply matured late.

2) He had a slightly advanced healing ability, but it could heal small wounds quickly, and wasn't powerful enough to completely restore deep tissue damage. The healing ability would later grow stronger.
In regards to the scars on Wolverine's mother, I assumed they came from his deceased brother and that the family got rid of the kid when they found out he was a mutant. I recall her saying something along the lines of "Not you, James! Not you, too!"
The writer certainly meant it to be his brother. If you read Wolverine The End, Jenkins actually introduces us to Wolverine's long lost brother. I always took it to be his brother as well.

SON OF BLADE said:
I never thought Dog was Sabretooth. Let's look at the facts. Sabretooth name is Victor Creed. He never had a problem remembering his past either. The son of Dog...maybe. If Dog changed his last name to Creed and then had Victor I could buy that. That would make Sabretooth Wolverines nephew. We all know Thomas Logan is his biological father and Dog was his half brother in essence. Ok I'm going to stop typing cause me brain hurts.

Sabertooth's name being Victor Creed means nothing. Wolverine thinks his real name is Logan, but in reality it was James. Changing your name wouldn't be hard.

And also, Sabertooth certainly does not remember his past clearly, see my above post for more details on that. But as I've said, it's been hinted that he knows more then Wolverine, but he certainly didn't know all of it.
 
D.P., one of my first statements regarding this subject on the thread, was that if Sabretooth was in fact aware of the Logan family tragedy or perhaps even part of it - he holds the only useful ammunition against Wolverine.

My theory is that Sabretooth is on a never ending quest of revenge against Wolverine for something Wolverine did to him in the past. Wolverine can't remember it, but Sabretooth sure can. This is why during their first fight together back in the 1910s, Wolverine had no reason to feel threatened by Creed living close to him. Creed knew that Logan forgot everything except one thing - his name. His real family name.

You're right on Logan being clueless as to why Sabretooth declared war on him. The idea that Sabretooth claimed to be his father to mess with his head is even further evidence that Sabretooth knows who Logan's father was.

Infinity9999x, Wolverine actually remembers his real name. He just never knew it was his real name. He never knew Thomas was his father. Ironically after the amnesia he could only remember the name of who he thought killed his father, and decided once again ironically to call himself that.

Sabretooth is definetely aware that the name Logan is in his bloodline. Which is why I think he changed his name to distinguish himself from his primary enemy. See, Dog would have never done that. He was too proud of being Thomas' son and bearing the name Logan. Hence another reason why I don't believe Dog is Sabretooth.

-TL
 
^True but mutation usually manifests at puberty. Dog still had 3 claw marks across his face when he faced Wolverine in the town. If in fact he was Sabretooth how would they explain the healing factor not kicking in that late in life?


what If the healing ability isnt part of his mutation? what if he has everything except that, but it was added later. after all, weapon X tried to give a healing factor to deadpool, and it didnt work properly. what if their first attempt was with Creed?
 
what If the healing ability isnt part of his mutation? what if he has everything except that, but it was added later. after all, weapon X tried to give a healing factor to deadpool, and it didnt work properly. what if their first attempt was with Creed?
didn't work properly?
do you mean that he went crazy or that he doesn't heal?
 
I still really don't think Dog was supposed to be Sabretooth. He was well into his adulthood by the end of Origin with no mutant healing abilities...I hardly think it would've "matured late", especially since that doesn't really happen in the X-universe.

I think it was just an isolated storyline...the Origin of Wolverine, with his own enemies and personal demons that turns him into the Wolverine we know today. No connection to Sabretooth.
 
D.P., one of my first statements regarding this subject on the thread, was that if Sabretooth was in fact aware of the Logan family tragedy or perhaps even part of it - he holds the only useful ammunition against Wolverine.

My theory is that Sabretooth is on a never ending quest of revenge against Wolverine for something Wolverine did to him in the past. Wolverine can't remember it, but Sabretooth sure can. This is why during their first fight together back in the 1910s, Wolverine had no reason to feel threatened by Creed living close to him. Creed knew that Logan forgot everything except one thing - his name. His real family name.

You're right on Logan being clueless as to why Sabretooth declared war on him. The idea that Sabretooth claimed to be his father to mess with his head is even further evidence that Sabretooth knows who Logan's father was.

Infinity9999x, Wolverine actually remembers his real name. He just never knew it was his real name. He never knew Thomas was his father. Ironically after the amnesia he could only remember the name of who he thought killed his father, and decided once again ironically to call himself that.

I know that, but after the Weapon X program, Wolverine remembered nothing of Rose, of his father, Dog, or much of anything before the weapon x program because of how they tampered with his mind.

Also, as I said above, Sabertooth actually believed himself to be Wolverine's father. While he and Wolverine were hallucinating Sabertooth called himself Wolverine's father, and since Sabertooth wasn't in control of his own mind at that point, I doubt he was was still managing to lie to Wolverine.

Sabertooth definitely does not know all of his own past, as was evidenced by the Silver Fox episode. He truly thought he killed Silver fox in the early 1900's. But this is proved to be false later when Silver Fox reappears. Creed's mind was obviously tampered with by the Weapon X program just as Logan's was, but to what extent we do not know.
Sabretooth is definetely aware that the name Logan is in his bloodline. Which is why I think he changed his name to distinguish himself from his primary enemy. See, Dog would have never done that. He was too proud of being Thomas' son and bearing the name Logan. Hence another reason why I don't believe Dog is Sabretooth.

-TL

There is absolutely no evidence of that. The only mention Sabertooth has made as to being related to Wolverine is when he said he was his father (which was what Claremont originally intended).

Also, there is no evidence Dog was proud of being Thomas' son. If anything, he resented his father because his father wasn't Wolverine's dad. Dog was jealous of James because James was rich, had a dad that didn't beat him, and got to spend more time with Rose.

There was no indication that Dog was proud of his heritage, the only thing that was evident by the last issue was that Dog vowed to hunt James down and get his revenge, and that sounds exactly like something Sabertooth would do.

I still really don't think Dog was supposed to be Sabretooth. He was well into his adulthood by the end of Origin with no mutant healing abilities...I hardly think it would've "matured late", especially since that doesn't really happen in the X-universe.

I think it was just an isolated storyline...the Origin of Wolverine, with his own enemies and personal demons that turns him into the Wolverine we know today. No connection to Sabretooth.

It's possible that Dog could have gotten a man made healing ability from the Weapon X program. They did it for Silver Fox.

It wouldn't have been hard to think that he had all the other mutant abilities. He was huge, and he looked to have above average strength, and he very well could have had enhanced animalistic senses, seeing as how he manged to track Logan into the Canadian wilderness.
 
Thanks guys.

Obviously there's no definitive answer, And a lot of it is ambigious...Makes for great storytelling and leaves certain things up for interpretation.
 
After Sabretooth re-joined Weapon X and was given a new adamantium skeleton, during the Tieri run of Wolverine he implied that Wolverine not knowing all of his own memories are because his healing factor represses the bad ones and makes him forget, and Wolverine for a split second flashes back to a scene from Origins.

Marvel Comics would pretty much ignore this not much later.
 
What issue did this memory flashback happen in?

And was it an Origin flashback or an Origins flashback?

-TL
 
What issue did this memory flashback happen in?

And was it an Origin flashback or an Origins flashback?
WOLVERINE #166. ORIGIN flashback. It's more likely that it is from the mind of 'The Director' that the vision of ORIGIN comes from.
 
WOLVERINE #166. ORIGIN flashback. It's more likely that it is from the mind of 'The Director' that the vision of ORIGIN comes from.

It was pretty clearly from ORIGIN by Paul Jenkins which was coming out around the same time. Not long after this though they forgot this happened. Then they forgot Wolverine learning his past in the Morrison X-men run. And they forgot Wolverine not flinching when Cassandra Nova calls him James.
 
Even though the writer didn't intend it, I've always viewed Dog as Sabertooth.
His scars could easily be explained away. His mutation may have manifested late, or his healing ability was still mutating and it wasn't powerful enough to completely heal damaged tissue, but only turn injuries into scars quickly and still leave a scar.

I've always liked the idea that Dog was Sabertooth more then Sabertooth being a son of Dog or any other idea. Everything seemed to fit, Sabertooth was known to have an abusive father, which dog had, and it would explain Sabertooth's anger at Logan if you take into account that Logan

*Stole his name

*Killed his father

*Got more attention from Rose

*and that Sabertooth is the bastard half brother of Logan who didn't get any of the pleasures Logan had in his early life

So even though it's unlikely, I like to view Sabetooth as Dog.


I agree with all of this, i have said this since origin came out. Its all implied right there! I mean origin did a great job it said the stage for wolverines life. His foes and even where his name came from. They should really hint at this in the movie.
Atleast give some inkling that they feel like they already know eachother.
 
I agree with all of this, i have said this since origin came out. Its all implied right there! I mean origin did a great job it said the stage for wolverines life. His foes and even where his name came from. They should really hint at this in the movie.
Atleast give some inkling that they feel like they already know eachother.

I know, that's how I've felt.

I also thought that it adds a nice sense of tragedy to both of them. Wolverine and Sabertooth (if you go with the theory that he is Dog) started out friends, and under different circumstances could have stayed friends.
 
I always thought that the reason Dog looked like Sabretooth was so that the readers could identify with a similar character (they have even said it wasn't the intention, but if writers want to go in that direction it is there). S.H.I.E.L.D. already proved that Wolverine and Sabretooth were not father and son, but that doesn't mean they aren't related in some other way. It' has always been presumed that he is older than Wolverine, but it's hard to say because of the healing factor.

One aspect that I have always loved about Sabretooth is that there is obviously a grudge that he holds against Wolverine, but will not say what it is. It's possible that he doesn't even know, due to the memory implants, but the bitterness he has is so deep that it is an automatic feeling. I prefer it that way because it leaves the readers to wonder as to why he hates Wolverine so much.

Also, Sabretooth couldn't have gotten his healing factor from Weapon X because they have faced off and worked together before the program.
 
I always thought Sabretooth's vendetta against Logan began right after the C-synth incident. I read now though that the apparent death of silver fox was set to take place before this, which doesn't make sense to me.
 
I always thought Sabretooth's vendetta against Logan began right after the C-synth incident. I read now though that the apparent death of silver fox was set to take place before this, which doesn't make sense to me.

That's what happens with comics.
 
I always thought that the reason Dog looked like Sabretooth was so that the readers could identify with a similar character (they have even said it wasn't the intention, but if writers want to go in that direction it is there). S.H.I.E.L.D. already proved that Wolverine and Sabretooth were not father and son, but that doesn't mean they aren't related in some other way. It' has always been presumed that he is older than Wolverine, but it's hard to say because of the healing factor.

One aspect that I have always loved about Sabretooth is that there is obviously a grudge that he holds against Wolverine, but will not say what it is. It's possible that he doesn't even know, due to the memory implants, but the bitterness he has is so deep that it is an automatic feeling. I prefer it that way because it leaves the readers to wonder as to why he hates Wolverine so much.

Also, Sabretooth couldn't have gotten his healing factor from Weapon X because they have faced off and worked together before the program.

That's a good point. Though if Dog was Sabertooth, I always thought that his healing factor mutated later, or hadn't been at full strength in Origins.

Either his healing factor came into play late, or it hadn't mutated fully yet. It still could have been advanced, but only strong enough to heal cuts quickly, but not strong enough to completely heal away the scar.

It certainly seemed like Dog had all the other attributes of Sabertooth. He was huge, strong, and agile, and he obviously had some skill in tracking the way he tracked down Logan.
 
I read somewhere around the time Origin came out that some characters in the storyline(Rose and Dog specifically) were meant to have strong similarities to other characters later in Logan's life- but not to actually turn out to be those characters. It was supposed to be a sort of sad, ironic history repeating itself. He keeps having these people enter his life and play out in a similar manner- and keeps making the same mistakes in dealing with them.
 
I read somewhere around the time Origin came out that some characters in the storyline(Rose and Dog specifically) were meant to have strong similarities to other characters later in Logan's life- but not to actually turn out to be those characters. It was supposed to be a sort of sad, ironic history repeating itself. He keeps having these people enter his life and play out in a similar manner- and keeps making the same mistakes in dealing with them.


I like that idea a lot. I don't know if that 4 part Sabretooth series was cannon or not but in it, it showed how his father would keep him in a basement chained up and with a muzzle.

The thing is, at that young age it showed him already having the sharp teeth and claws which is why his father had a muzzle and chains on him.

If that is cannon then I don't think Sabretooth is Dog Logan or the song of Dog Logan. It's been awhile but from what I can remember that Sabretooth miniseries also showed his mom or it could have just been some broad that was with his dad.
 

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