Sabretooth Conundrum

[Infinity9999x]

All right, we've all been talking about how to address the continuity issue with Sabretooth lately, so I figured it would be appropriate to make a thread about it.

Now, it does pose a bit of a problem. On one hand, Liev with undoubtedly be a better actor, and provide a better characterization of Sabretooth, on the other hand, we have to figure out what in the heck happens that turns him into the thug in X1 (if it's the same person), and that poses a problem, especially if the producers want to use him in further Wolverine solo movies that might be set after the X-series.

Here are the ideas that have been bouncing around so far.

1.It's a Clone!
This is going off the first draft of the script in which they introduce Sabretooth clones at the end of the movie. At the end of the film one of the clones would escape, and this clone would become the Sabretooth we see in X1. It's personally my least favorite option, because it is a bit hokey.

2.It's an Imposter!
Some think the best route to go is to say that at some point Sabretooth looses his dog tags and another wandering mutant happens upon them and assumes his idenity. One with similar powers (maybe the movie-verses version of Wildchild?)

3.Changes!
In this theory Sabertooth simply evolves and becomes more feral over the years, or is changed into what we see in X1 by experimentation with Stryker. This is another undesired change from me, because that means that Shcriber's character has to get dumber, which I dont' view as a good thing.

4.It's his Son!
This is an idea I just thought up a while ago. But what if you have Mane's Sabretooth be Liev's kid? You could have him be the movie-verses Graydon Creed. I know, it would be a radical change from the comics, but it would could explain why he has similar powers, and stays close to Mystique, and has an inkling of who Wolverine might be, or why he seems familiar (because he would be his half uncle.)

Also, it doesn't have to be Graydon, it could just be an unnamed son, and Graydon could be introduced later as a mutant hater like in the comics.

5.Screw Continuity!
Some people just want to say "heck with it" and ignore what's happened before.

and finally.

6.Other
Specify your own idea.

 

[spidey-dude]

wolverine does cut his goddam head off, when it regrows his brain is never as it was, instead more feral and he has lost his memory

 

[TwilightPro101]

Voted for changes.

 

[BMM]

There's no need to sacrifice the integrity of an entire movie using the above scenarios to explain the obvious--a different actor is playing Sabretooth and is giving his own interpretation of the character.

If I had to choose, I choose Changes (Sabretooth simply becomes more feral over the years). Even then, I don't think it even need be acknowledged in the movie. That's simply how I reconcile the difference between the two portrayals using my imagination. I'm sure audience members can do the same without an unecessary addition to the movie, like clones. Jesus.

 

[Silverglade]

Well I voted for changes but I would also like to "ignore all that crap", as noted in the poll description. ;p

 

[protocida]

One theory that's flying arround is that Liev Schreiber's Victor Creed is never called Sabertooth, and X1's Sabertooth is a different character with similar powers, so, that's why Wolverine don't reconizes him and why he's so different from the REAL Sabertooth.

 

[PTZ]

I say just ignore it at this point or say he was an imposter if you must have a legit reason. They can't very well say it's Graydon without completly changing Graydon's character, and I don't think it would make sense for Sabes and Mystique to have two kids. The clone one could work, but how did they clone him? I don't Magneto is an expert with that.

Changes isn't good either. For starters, how did he get younger? Plus how would he get back to Liev should an X4 ever take place?

So as I said above, say he was a fake or ignore it. They didn't explain why Batman changed when Michael Keaton stopped playing him. It's just a recast.

 

[Infinity9999x]

There's no need to sacrifice the integrity of an entire movie using the above scenarios to explain the obvious--a different actor is playing Sabretooth and is giving his own interpretation of the character.

If I had to choose, I choose Changes (Sabretooth simply becomes more feral over the years). Even then, I don't think it even need be acknowledged in the movie. That's simply how I reconcile the difference between the two portrayals using my imagination. I'm sure audience members can do the same without an unecessary addition to the movie, like clones. Jesus.

I'm not so sure audience members will be able to differentiate that well, I mean, think of how many people were confused in TDK when the Joker tells Batman the addresses of where Rachel and Dent are, and then we see Bats end up at Dent's spot even though he said he would go get Rachel. Lots of people were wondering if Batman changed his mind halfway through, even though it was pretty obvious that Joker had lied to Batman, it just wasn't specifically said on screen.

Of course, the other thing is, X1 has been so long ago that many people may not really remember Sabertooth that much, and won't even notice the difference in characters.

I personally think that if they address the differences the child route is the most "plausible." It's not too out there to think that Creed had a son, and the son ended up being even more feral then he was.

One theory that's flying arround is that Liev Schreiber's Victor Creed is never called Sabertooth, and X1's Sabertooth is a different character with similar powers, so, that's why Wolverine don't reconizes him and why he's so different from the REAL Sabertooth.

I forgot about that, if a mod would like to add this to the poll too that would be great.

Now, at first I was opposed to this idea, but the more I think about it the less it bothers me. Of course I would like Sabretooth to be called by his villain namesake, but it is the least messy way of addressing the problem.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I say just ignore it at this point or say he was an imposter if you must have a legit reason. They can't very well say it's Graydon without completly changing Graydon's character, and I don't think it would make sense for Sabes and Mystique to have two kids. The clone one could work, but how did they clone him? I don't Magneto is an expert with that.

They obviously don't have a problem with completely changing characters in the movie, just look at Blob, Rouge, or Phoenix. I don't think they'd be fussed with changing Graydon Creed, it's not like he's a very well known villain. And the clone angle was in the original script review about a year ago, Stryker was the one who cloned him.

Changes isn't good either. For starters, how did he get younger? Plus how would he get back to Liev should an X4 ever take place?

Younger? Mane doesn't really look younger then Liev, so I don't see that point. But your next point is the very problem I had with actually showing Liev to change into Mane's Sabretooth, how would they use him if he appears after X4? I wouldn't know either.

So as I said above, say he was a fake or ignore it. They didn't explain why Batman changed when Michael Keaton stopped playing him. It's just a recast.

That's a different situation though. BF seemed like it was in a different continuity then B89 and BR, and Keaton and Kilmer didn't look as radically different as Mane and Liev do in their respective movies.

 

[Symbiotic]

One theory that's flying arround is that Liev Schreiber's Victor Creed is never called Sabertooth, and X1's Sabertooth is a different character with similar powers, so, that's why Wolverine don't reconizes him and why he's so different from the REAL Sabertooth.

 

[PTZ]

They obviously don't have a problem with completely changing characters in the movie, just look at Blob, Rouge, or Phoenix. I don't think they'd be fussed with changing Graydon Creed, it's not like he's a very well known villain.

I guess they could change Graydon but I'd hope they'd not make him a mutant, since that would REALLY mess with the character. Plus if they bring him on board, I'd hope they'd find a better actor than Mane and also have him interact with Sabretooth.

I'd like to forget Mane was ever in the film if he's not explained as a fake. I'd really have no problem with that.

 

[PTZ]

One theory that's flying arround is that Liev Schreiber's Victor Creed is never called Sabertooth, and X1's Sabertooth is a different character with similar powers, so, that's why Wolverine don't reconizes him and why he's so different from the REAL Sabertooth.

Are we for sure they never call him Sabretooth on Origins?

 

[sniktsnakt]

I think the Empire magazine says that they don't ever call Leiv's character "Sabretooth"--just Creed.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I personally think that Victor Creed in X-Men Origins: Wolverine will simply be a different character than Sabretooth in X-Men.

I know that it's a hard concept for us comic book fans to grasp (it's even awkward for me, and I'm halfway hoping for it), but I think it's honestly the best explanation for the movies to just have the 2 be different characters.

 

[Peter McCabe]

5.Screw Continuity!
Some people just want to say "heck with it" and ignore what's happened before.

I really like this thread Infinity, thanks for comin up with it.

My choice is to forget the crap that was Singer/Mane's version of Sabretooth.

You're right, its been 10 years and ONLY the hardcore fans will remember Mane's sasquatch/Yeti/Neanderthal Man life-form.

I am a hardcore fan and believe that like most others will happily disregard that failed attempt at Sabretooth taken a decade ago to embrace the subtle viciousness of this man...

I don't need an explanation, Mane just never happened.

 

[batsone]

does it really matter? sabertooth in x1 was ok,
can liev do better? watch origins and we'll see,
are they the same character? it dosent matter to me.

 

[Evelisse]

Chose the Screw Continuity! option. Really not going to have a hard time forgetting about Sabertooth from X-1, Mane is so forgettable in the role, might as well have just been evil mutant thug #2.

 

[Congo Jack]

Option 5.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I really like this thread Infinity, thanks for comin up with it.

My choice is to forget the crap that was Singer/Mane's version of Sabretooth.

You're right, its been 10 years and ONLY the hardcore fans will remember Mane's sasquatch/Yeti/Neanderthal Man life-form.

I am a hardcore fan and believe that like most others will happily disregard that failed attempt at Sabretooth taken a decade ago to embrace the subtle viciousness of this man...

I don't need an explanation, Mane just never happened.

No problem Pete,

it seems most people just want to ignore the past and go with it, which I don't think is a bad idea really, the comics do it all the time.

However, what do you guys think of Sabretooth looking a bit more like his comic counterpart in future films? I'm not saying a full on Mane like transformation, but just a bit more comic like. If Liev does another film, he'll have more time to lift, and he'll be able to get bigger than he is now. And he could maybe grow his hair out a bit, to give him that wildman look.

I'm thinking something more like in Wolverine #10, the Claremont issue that first introduces the Silver Fox story. In that, Sabretooth doesn't look all that wild really. He just has long hair, the chops, he's big, and then he has claws, which wouldn't be hard to do lookwise really.

 

[Evelisse]

I don't know, comic characters change all the time, all you need is a good story and they could easily bring back Sabertooth with short dark hair. I dont think comic book movie makers always have to wait til something happens in the comic first before then can take it to film.

 

[the a1ant]

I personally think that Victor Creed in X-Men Origins: Wolverine will simply be a different character than Sabretooth in X-Men.

I know that it's a hard concept for us comic book fans to grasp (it's even awkward for me, and I'm halfway hoping for it), but I think it's honestly the best explanation for the movies to just have the 2 be different characters.

Yeah. Or that they can say Sabretooth is a clone off Creed. It makes sense that Stryker would clone their DNA. I could accept that.

 

[X-Gal123]

Why can't the discrepancy between Liev's character and Mane's character be Magneto. After all the Origins happens many years before Wolverine even meets Rogue and the X-men so it is reasonable to assume that Sabretooth has several years to meet Magneto and go through a transformation. And the differences between the two have similarities between Magneto's ideology.

Let's look at it this way.

1. In Origins Liev's character is only called Creed, in X-men 1 Mane's character is only called Sabretooth. Magneto completely rejects the idea of hanging on to your homo sapien name, like when Pyro introduced himself to Magneto, he asked, "What's your real name John?"

2. The issue of appearance has also been discussed, Liev is well shaven, Mane is not. Well maybe the wild side is the natural version of Sabretooth, but in Origins Creed is trying to blend in with non-mutants so he can track Wolverine better and more inconspicuously, however after meeting Magneto Sabretooth adopts the wild side. Like how Mystique only walks around blue in all the movies instead of easily blending in with society. Like Magneto and Mystique both believe mutants shouldn't have to hide.

3. The change in behavior from an individual to a mindless drone, is due to the change in loyalty from yourself to Magneto. Pyro goes through a similar change between X2 and X3, and while that was due to Ratner, it still is movie canon.

Now the question remains what's the draw for Sabretooth to join Magneto, well I'd say it is the same draw as Pyro's in X2, power.

In Origins, Wolverine is most likely going to defeat Sabretooth, which will make Sabretooth bitter and increase the rivalry. So when he meets Magneto he figures Magneto will be able to give him power so when he meets Wolverine he will be able to defeat him. Creed has a reason to change his appearance, name and behavior, between Wolverine Origins and X1, if Magneto is the cause so I'd cite that as the reason.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Why can't the discrepancy between Liev's character and Mane's character be Magneto. After all the Origins happens many years before Wolverine even meets Rogue and the X-men so it is reasonable to assume that Sabretooth has several years to meet Magneto and go through a transformation. And the differences between the two have similarities between Magneto's ideology.

Let's look at it this way.

1. In Origins Liev's character is only called Creed, in X-men 1 Mane's character is only called Sabretooth. Magneto completely rejects the idea of hanging on to your homo sapien name, like when Pyro introduced himself to Magneto, he asked, "What's your real name John?"

2. The issue of appearance has also been discussed, Liev is well shaven, Mane is not. Well maybe the wild side is the natural version of Sabretooth, but in Origins Creed is trying to blend in with non-mutants so he can track Wolverine better and more inconspicuously, however after meeting Magneto Sabretooth adopts the wild side. Like how Mystique only walks around blue in all the movies instead of easily blending in with society. Like Magneto and Mystique both believe mutants shouldn't have to hide.

3. The change in behavior from an individual to a mindless drone, is due to the change in loyalty from yourself to Magneto. Pyro goes through a similar change between X2 and X3, and while that was due to Ratner, it still is movie canon.

Now the question remains what's the draw for Sabretooth to join Magneto, well I'd say it is the same draw as Pyro's in X2, power.

In Origins, Wolverine is most likely going to defeat Sabretooth, which will make Sabretooth bitter and increase the rivalry. So when he meets Magneto he figures Magneto will be able to give him power so when he meets Wolverine he will be able to defeat him. Creed has a reason to change his appearance, name and behavior, between Wolverine Origins and X1, if Magneto is the cause so I'd cite that as the reason.

While this is an interesting idea, there are a few things that I have a few problems with.

You make it sound like Creed is consciously controlling how he looks. But it's not like he just let his hair grow longer. His hair color completely changes, his eyes would go jet black, and he'd grow about a foot. I can't really see him consciously being able to control that.

Also, I'm really not big on turning Liev's Sabretooth into a mindless drone. It ruins the character, and if they wanted to use him in a movie after X1 they would have to address that. But really, the biggest problem I had (and this isn't with your theory but with X1 itself) is the fact that Sabretooth never takes orders from anyone. And even if he does agree to work with you, you never know if he's going to turn on you at any point and time. I just never really liked them introducing Sabretooth in that role in X1, it should have been Blob, or even Juggernaut, but not Sabretooth.

 

[ObakeTora]

wolverine does cut his goddam head off, when it regrows his brain is never as it was, instead more feral and he has lost his memory

no $hi??? Which issue was this?

 

[Peter McCabe]

While this is an interesting idea, there are a few things that I have a few problems with.

You make it sound like Creed is consciously controlling how he looks. But it's not like he just let his hair grow longer. His hair color completely changes, his eyes would go jet black, and he'd grow about a foot. I can't really see him consciously being able to control that.

Also, I'm really not big on turning Liev's Sabretooth into a mindless drone. It ruins the character, and if they wanted to use him in a movie after X1 they would have to address that. But really, the biggest problem I had (and this isn't with your theory but with X1 itself) is the fact that Sabretooth never takes orders from anyone. And even if he does agree to work with you, you never know if he's going to turn on you at any point and time. I just never really liked them introducing Sabretooth in that role in X1, it should have been Blob, or even Juggernaut, but not Sabretooth.

I agree with all of this.