Is Singer the one to blame?

[The Ones]

I was wondering if Singer is the reason behind Cyclops's death. James Marsden is working on Super-man with Singer. Since James didnt have enough time to do X-3, Kinberg and Penn were forced to write him off and Give most of his lines to Wolverine (hence the personality change) if they ever wanted to reach the May 25th release date. If Singer was on, there would be no competition for James Marsden and he would have had a bigger role.

What do you think?

 

[FaT_tONle]

The bottom line is this guy gave us two great films so we can't trash him for forces beyond his own control...

 

[lordofthenerds]

I guess that its partly his fault in a way. But its mostly Fox's fault.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Indirectly his exiting played a role in Cylops (mis)treatment in X3, but I cant fault him for taking his dream job.

 

[Endeavor]

The blame starts and ends with Tom Rothman and FOX, IMHO.

 

[Mr. Credible]

i liked X3, but i think it would have been so much better if Ratner didn't have to conform to the mediocre groundwork set up by Singer...

... so yeah, i know it's not what you meant, but i think that Singer is, in a big way, responsible for most of the negative reactions towards X3.

 

[Avalanche]

Cyclops didn't get a great role in X2 either, and no one was trying to poach James Marsden at that point.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Cyclops didn't get a great role in X2 either, and no one was trying to poach James Marsden at that point.

His small role served the story and the purpose of Stryker in X2.

Singer, after X2 was finished and released, promised Marsden a bigger role and had plans to start the Phoenix Saga and film both X3 and X4 back to back.

 

[PWN3R]

Singer is to blame, but it is not due to Superman. X3 was going nowhere at the time, and he was offered a chance to do his dream project, no problem there.

Singer gets the blame because Cykes has been mistreated since X1 and X2.

He gave no reason for the audience to care for Cykes, yes he had Jean, but the focus was more on Jean/Logan even though Jean picked Scott. X1 was a tale told through Wolverine's eyes, in X2 Cykes was barely in, so yes IMO Singer is to blame...

 

[Nathan]

I don't know how Singer is possibly to blame when different writers and a different director make a Movie about the Phoenix and shaft him even though he should be the main character. Just because Wolverine was a center character in the first 2 Movies it doesn't mean that in X3 they had to follow the same route.

And didn't Singer actually had a larger role for Cyclops in mind in his X3 treatment?

 

[kytrigger]

I don't think the scheduling conflict of doing both SR and X3 was any sort of a problem. If Cyclops was to have a bigger role, then Singer would have made time and he and Ratner would have scheduled it so he could be in both.

IF you are going to blame Singer at all, it shouldn't be for going to SR and taking Marsden with him, it should be that he gave Cyke a small role in the second film. Yes, Singer has said that he was planning on giving him a much larger role in X3, but by doing that, he still pushed Cyclops to the backburner, which easily could have resulted in him getting the shaft in X3.

 

[SuperFerret]

No, it's not Singer's fault. If it's anyone's fault, it's the fan's. Granted, Cyclops is not the most likeable character. He's stiff, emotionally distant, and he follows the rules. He's unpopular, therefore he gets the short end of the stick. Many fans want to see a Wolverine movie, that's why Logan got "Cyclops' part" in the story.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Singer is to blame, but it is not due to Superman. X3 was going nowhere at the time, and he was offered a chance to do his dream project, no problem there.

Singer gets the blame because Cykes has been mistreated since X1 and X2.

He gave no reason for the audience to care for Cykes, yes he had Jean, but the focus was more on Jean/Logan even though Jean picked Scott. X1 was a tale told through Wolverine's eyes, in X2 Cykes was barely in, so yes IMO Singer is to blame...

Watch X1 along with the deleted scenes and tell me Cyclops got shafted.

I gave an outline on how many scenes he was involved in, all of which were pure faithful Cyclops moments and showed him as a leader.

In X2 it was to serve the story, so yes he did get a small role. But what could you show him doing while he was captured?

X3 was his time to shine and Singer promised Marsden a bigger role, so no, I don't blame Singer at all. The blame starts and ends with Fox/Rothman.

 

[GhostPoet]

Guys...no one is to blame. Why do you have to turn this into a finger pointing contest?

Besides...hold your opinions till you see the extended edition.

 

[PWN3R]

The thing is though, yes we FANS liked what little Cykes got, and it was good. But the general audience just thought of him as a guy getting in the way of Wolverine being with Jean. I mean seriously, if you knew nothing of the X-Men, and watched the first 2, who would you want Jean ending up with?

Wolverine....

Singer gets the blame for the mistreatment of Cykes, NOT the death. They could have just ignored Cykes or something, NOT freaking kill him. Plus they destroyed his glasses, that was the last straw for me...

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Guys...no one is to blame. Why do you have to turn this into a finger pointing contest?

Besides...hold your opinions till you see the extended edition.

You have much to learn my friend.

We were here in the beginning and read about the behind the scenes politics involved.

Kinberg and Penn kind of hinted that Fox wanted to punish Marsden for going to SR. So, here's what I say, I say take that for what you will and at this point and time; there's no reason for me to believe Zak and Simon, or no reason for me to NOT believe their stories.

But I do, however, find it odd that he gets a much smaller role right after he goes to SR.

The keyword is "parameters" and both writers strongly kept repeating that nasty word.

 

[DACrowe]

No.

Fox uses that as a bull**** excuse. Mardsen has a small part in SR and was mostly done filming when he worked on X3 and was willing to play a larger part in X3 saying he wanted Cyclops to be in it and not just written out (which he essientially was).

For proof like at Ian McKellan. He has a tight schedule. They accomdeated it so he could be in X3 and the much better (I can't believe I just typed that) The Da Vinci Code adaptation. Or look at Kevin Spacey. He played Lex Luthor in SR at the same time he was managing the Old Vic in London (on the other side of the hemisphere).

Mardsen could have been Cyclops, but the studio threw a ****fit at Singer for doing a competing superhero movie (after they ****ed with him for six months and not signing him) and since Mardsen signed onto do SR (when X3 was barely in pre-production without a script....he would have been done with most filming for his part and was before X3 started filming) they had to punish him.

Fox's fault. Plus I think (this is just speculation) that an order came down from the execs. saying "Hugh Jackman is the movie star, why isn't the read head girl with him instead of that other dude?" or something to that Tim Rothman extent.

Alas.

 

[FaT_tONle]

What extended edition.... they probably don't even have the scenes for it... I am not going to believe Arad, Ratner, Fox or anyone about what the DVD might have until I see it myself...

 

[BigMac]

Yes, because Bryan Singer wrote the script and directed the movie... wait...

 

[BMM]

Guys...no one is to blame. Why do you have to turn this into a finger pointing contest? . . .

God, no kidding. I agree. These threads are becoming ridiculous.

Here:

If we're going to have another poll regarding finger pointing, then at least provide the correct information (rather than misguided assumptions) from which people can base their opinions. This was posted by Retroman in the novelization thread. It is one of the interviews with the writers, and it states that Marsden's role was determined before he was signed for Superman as the studio had certain "parameters" for the character.

Did you and Zak originally write the X3 script without knowing that Marsden would be doing Superman. Basically did he have a bigger role in the movie beforehand or did you and Zak always have a clear definition of how big the role of Cyclops was intended to be?

*Yes. We wrote the script before knowing he would do Superman. Zak and I were given certain parameters for Cyclops’ role in the film. I don’t know if those parameters were dictated by Jimmy’s availability, or by the creative approach of the studio. As I’ve said many times on these boards, we did the best we could with the circumstance we were given. At the end of the day, I think Cyclops has some great scenes in this film, and I know Jimmy is extremely proud of his performance.

If FOX really wanted Marsden in the film, scheduling conflicts could have been worked around similar to McKellen's in X2. The point is, we don't know what happened. FOX should have locked everything down sooner.

 

[SuperFerret]

God, no kidding.

Here:

If we're going to have another poll regarding finger pointing, then at least put the correct information. This was posted by Retroman in the novelization thread. It is one of the interviews with the writers, and it states that Marsden's role was determined before he was signed for Superman as the studio had certain "parameters" for the character.

Did you and Zak originally write the X3 script without knowing that Marsden would be doing Superman. Basically did he have a bigger role in the movie beforehand or did you and Zak always have a clear definition of how big the role of Cyclops was intended to be?

*Yes. We wrote the script before knowing he would do Superman. Zak and I were given certain parameters for Cyclops’ role in the film. I don’t know if those parameters were dictated by Jimmy’s availability, or by the creative approach of the studio. As I’ve said many times on these boards, we did the best we could with the circumstance we were given. At the end of the day, I think Cyclops has some great scenes in this film, and I know Jimmy is extremely proud of his performance.

Which one? The crying, the *****ing to Logan, or him dying?

 

[FaT_tONle]

No.

Fox uses that as a bull**** excuse. Mardsen has a small part in SR and was mostly done filming when he worked on X3 and was willing to play a larger part in X3 saying he wanted Cyclops to be in it and not just written out (which he essientially was).

For proof like at Ian McKellan. He has a tight schedule. They accomdeated it so he could be in X3 and the much better (I can't believe I just typed that) The Da Vinci Code adaptation. Or look at Kevin Spacey. He played Lex Luthor in SR at the same time he was managing the Old Vic in London (on the other side of the hemisphere).

Mardsen could have been Cyclops, but the studio threw a ****fit at Singer for doing a competing superhero movie (after they ****ed with him for six months and not signing him) and since Mardsen signed onto do SR (when X3 was barely in pre-production without a script....he would have been done with most filming for his part and was before X3 started filming) they had to punish him.

Fox's fault. Plus I think (this is just speculation) that an order came down from the execs. saying "Hugh Jackman is the movie star, why isn't the read head girl with him instead of that other dude?" or something to that Tim Rothman extent.

Alas.

Damn good points... he was written out of the script... not a big fan of him but the treatment he got was just wrong... just as bad as Rougue's and a lot of other characters... I'm praying for an extended alkalai lake and other scenes but I know this will never happen...

 

[The Caped Knight]

The blame starts and ends with Tom Rothman and FOX, IMHO.

I totally agree.

 

[spiffysteve]

id say it was fox's fault through and through.. Wait a year and you can have bryan back and he would have done X3.. :P

 

[FaT_tONle]

Okay... but there are two sides to every story... who do you blame when Storm gets cut... SINGER... who do you blame when the climactic scene has the emotion and drama... but drag on and are not action packed... SINGER... this movie would not have been perfect regardless of who directed it