Why Singer left the X-men franchise

[The Major]

This is a response to X-Maniac in the Wolverine (spoilers) forum that fits here instead since it impacts X-3 more then the Wolverine movie.

And yet Singer had all the time, most of the money and all the creative freedom he wanted at Warner and his revival of the iconic Superman underperformed and did not make back its budget domestically.

X-men isn't Superman. He delivered a good movie just not the perfect Superman one. Singer has nothing to prove with making good X-men films. He's already made two.

While most people were curious about what Singer had in store for X3, he never made one, so you can't compare what wasn't ever made with what was.

He never made X-3 because of Rothman.

Fox could make a Singer X-3 with a snap of their fingers if they desired.

Then again that would require them to admit they screwed up.

What you're doing is comparing your dreams and hopes which are intangible and unreal. Singe chose not to make X3, he chose to leave for Superman and he then chose to take the Cyclops actor away too. He wasn't denied the chance to make X3, he chose to abandon the franchise.

"Chose" to leave? You should ask Rothman why he left.

Here’s the thing about X-MEN. It may be one of the most flexible and durable film franchises I’ve ever seen. By the very nature of who the X-Men are, you can rotate cast in and out of the series without having to scrap continuity. This is already off to a better financial and creative start than the Bond franchise was, and you see the legs on that one. Why, then, would you allow a personal grudge to lead you to make decisions that will not only kill the golden goose, but also rape it and eat it?

And make no mistake... the rush to make that Memorial Day 2006 release date is about beating Bryan Singer to the screen. The acrimony involved in the Singer/Fox break-up is rich enough to write an entire book about, especially if it leads to the destruction of the franchise. This could turn into one of the all-time great displays of executive hubris in Hollywood. You want to know why you lost Singer to Warner Bros. and SUPERMAN in the first place? Because you took over a year to negotiate his deal to direct X-MEN 3. That should have been one of the biggest no-brainer decisions you could have ever made, but maybe you have to have a brain to make a no-brainer decision. You strung him along and strung him along and strung him along, and then when you had finally proven to him that you weren’t going to make things easy... you were too late. Alan Horn took full advantage of Bryan’s almost-fetishistic love of Donner’s SUPERMAN and your hesitancy, and he stole him from you. I don’t know what’s funnier... throwing Bryan off the lot using security guards, or the fact that you had to let him back on the lot immediately thereafter so he could shoot HOUSE for the studio.

What’s really amazing is how X-MEN was something Rothman hated from the start, no matter what he says now in public. I’ve spoken to at least ten people close to the production who have provided me with laundry lists of the ways that Rothman tried to f*** up the first film. Remember when they cut the budget and moved up the release date on the first X-MEN? You know why? Rothman was cutting his losses. He really, truly anticipated that the film would come out and vanish without a trace, and he would finally be rid of what he saw as a corporate albatross. Instead, the film clicked, and on the second film, Bryan Singer and his writers and the producers were all able to muster enough muscle to get Fox to give them the room they needed to make something even better.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=20443

 

[X-Maniac]

^^^ None of that matters anymore. Singer left, he moved on, for whatever reason. X3 is not going to be unmade or remade and neither he nor Fox nor anyone else is going to turn up on your doorstep and make the exact movie you want.

No one on here has ever wished bad things on the X-Men franchise. We're mostly X-Men fans and want the best for them. We all want good movies. I've been reading the X-Men comics since 1975, probably longer than anyone else on this forum. But most of us have moved on, just as most normal sane folks in the real world have.

The perfect X-movie hasn't yet been made. The perfect movie of any kind hasn't yet been made. Superhero adaptations have been problematic with all studios - Universal's Hulk had a 70% drop in its second weekend, Sony put out the ghastly Ghost Rider, Warner gave us Crapwoman and the Schumacher Batman disasters, and an underperforming Superman Returns which failed to resonate with the general public.

All possible arguments relating to X3 and the X-movies have been covered here in some way. Some hate X3, some like it, some love it, some enjoy it considering the circumstances. And that's really all there is to it.

 

[The Major]

^^^ None of that matters anymore. Singer left, he moved on, for whatever reason.

Singer leaving is a major problem with the franchise. if they could do it to him it doesn't matter who else they hand it to they'll just find a way to destroy it anyway.

Rothman and his cronies being anywhere near the franchise is a disaster waiting to happen.

X3 is not going to be unmade or remade and neither he nor Fox nor anyone else is going to turn up on your doorstep and make the exact movie you want.

They already gave me two good X-men movies that I loved. X-men and X-men 2. I want more of these movies. They've already shown they can make them when they put some effort in.

No one on here has ever wished bad things on the X-Men franchise.

I didn't say anybody here does.

We're mostly X-Men fans and want the best for them. We all want good movies. I've been reading the X-Men comics since 1975, probably longer than anyone else on this forum. But most of us have moved on, just as most normal sane folks in the real world have.

Moving on is what Fox wants us to do. They depend on it. That way they can keep on making crappy movies and they won't be accountable for it.

While fans can't hurt them financially we can take them to task for their mistakes on the internet and talking amongst ourselves.

Letting our guard down after X-men 3, FF and the DD movies is just asking for them to do it again. Who knows what franchises they'll hurt next if they don't learn from their mistakes.

The perfect X-movie hasn't yet been made. The perfect movie of any kind hasn't yet been made. Superhero adaptations have been problematic with all studios - Universal's Hulk had a 70% drop in its second weekend, Sony put out the ghastly Ghost Rider, Warner gave us Crapwoman and the Schumacher Batman disasters, and an underperforming Superman Returns which failed to resonate with the general public.

Batman Begins, The first two X-men films, Sin City, the first two Blade films, the first two Superman films, the Spider-man trilogy, Hellboy. All great superhero/comic adaptions.

It can be done.

All it requires is the studios to do their jobs properly. This is their element. They should know enough by now how to make good adaptions. It's inexcusable why they fail again and again. They should learn from mistakes from the peers and their own. It's not rocket science here.

All possible arguments relating to X3 and the X-movies have been covered here in some way. Some hate X3, some like it, some love it, some enjoy it considering the circumstances. And that's really all there is to it.

People will always talk about the movie regardless of how they feel.

 

[Theweepeople]

Singer leaving is a major problem with the franchise. if they could do it to him it doesn't matter who else they hand it to they'll just find a way to destroy it anyway.

Rothman and his cronies being anywhere near the franchise is a disaster waiting to happen.




They already gave me two good X-men movies that I loved. X-men and X-men 2. I want more of these movies. They've already shown they can make them when they put some effort in.



I didn't say anybody here does.



Moving on is what Fox wants us to do. They depend on it. That way they can keep on making crappy movies and they won't be accountable for it.

While fans can't hurt them financially we can take them to task for their mistakes on the internet and talking amongst ourselves.

Letting our guard down after X-men 3, FF and the DD movies is just asking for them to do it again. Who knows what franchises they'll hurt next if they don't learn from their mistakes.



Batman Begins, The first two X-men films, Sin City, the first two Blade films, the first two Superman films, the Spider-man trilogy, Hellboy. All great superhero/comic adaptions.

It can be done.

All it requires is the studios to do their jobs properly. This is their element. They should know enough by now how to make good adaptions. It's inexcusable why they fail again and again. They should learn from mistakes from the peers and their own. It's not rocket science here.



People will always talk about the movie regardless of how they feel.

I used to have these X-Men 3 conversations with X-Maniac every week until I finally realized it's pointless to argue with him. You can present facts and theories that back up your argument and X-Maniac will either change the subject, ignore, or periodically forget about the information that you presented. It's pathetic but, he also continues to deny that he has an agenda against anyone who says negative things about X-Men 3 inspite of spending almost 2 years trying to keep all of the X-Men 3 haters quite.

One thing that should be noted is it isn't just Fox's comic book movies that people are disappointed with. It's 95% of their sci-fi and action movies that people are disappointed with and Star Wars does not count. Lucasfilm owns the copyrights. No studio has destroyed as many franchises as Fox has in the past 15 years. They ruined Aliens(Alien 3), Predator(Predator 2), AVP(AVP1 and 2), Eragon, X-Men(X3), Fantastic Four(1and2), Daredevil, Speed(Speed 2), Planet of the Apes(2001), LXG, and possibly Jumper as a result of it's horrible reviews and lukewarm boxoffice gross. This summer Fox will inexplicably be releasing an X-Files film that should have come out 7 years ago with a suicide release date. They will also, be releasing a DBZ movie with a script thrown together in a few weeks right before the writers strike took place.

Everyone who had their expectations completely destroyed by those abominations mentioned above have every right to be angry with Fox and complain about how their tyrant executives dictate the way their movies are made. Hiring hack or inexperienced directors, under-budgeting their films, and lying to fans about script reviews and run times, procrastinating to make films, and banning certain critics(Moriarty from AICN) they don't like from their screenings are common place with this company.

I thought I had seen it all until Fox decided to sue the theater one AICN critic worked for after he released a negative FF2 review. Then Fox decided to pull out a week before last summer's comic-con because they had no AVP footage to show!!! That was quite bizzare but, then eight months later Fox decides to sue Warner Brothers for the Watchmen rights weeks before post production is done on the Watchmen film inspite of not doing a damn thing with the rights for almost 20 years.

 

[Neto Magnus]

 

[danoyse]

 

[X-Maniac]

Singer leaving is a major problem with the franchise. if they could do it to him it doesn't matter who else they hand it to they'll just find a way to destroy it anyway.

Rothman and his cronies being anywhere near the franchise is a disaster waiting to happen.




They already gave me two good X-men movies that I loved. X-men and X-men 2. I want more of these movies. They've already shown they can make them when they put some effort in.



I didn't say anybody here does.



Moving on is what Fox wants us to do. They depend on it. That way they can keep on making crappy movies and they won't be accountable for it.

While fans can't hurt them financially we can take them to task for their mistakes on the internet and talking amongst ourselves.

Letting our guard down after X-men 3, FF and the DD movies is just asking for them to do it again. Who knows what franchises they'll hurt next if they don't learn from their mistakes.



Batman Begins, The first two X-men films, Sin City, the first two Blade films, the first two Superman films, the Spider-man trilogy, Hellboy. All great superhero/comic adaptions.

It can be done.

All it requires is the studios to do their jobs properly. This is their element. They should know enough by now how to make good adaptions. It's inexcusable why they fail again and again. They should learn from mistakes from the peers and their own. It's not rocket science here.



People will always talk about the movie regardless of how they feel.

You're obviously desperate to pick a fight so you are now attacking me and demonising me as though i am somehow to blame. It's sooooo boring.

 

[X-Maniac]

I used to have these X-Men 3 conversations with X-Maniac every week until I finally realized it's pointless to argue with him.

You're damn right!

 

[The Major]

You're obviously desperate to pick a fight so you are now attacking me and demonising me as though i am somehow to blame. It's sooooo boring.

I'm not desperate for a fight at all. We're having an argument. They happen a lot on message boards.

I want to hear your side of the story.

If any points I've made are wrong I'll admit you were right if you convince me of that fact.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm not desperate for a fight at all. We're having an argument. They happen a lot on message boards.

I want to hear your side of the story.

If any points I've made are wrong I'll admit you were right if you convince me of that fact.

I don't have any 'side of the story'. I have no links with Fox and I don't know what the official story is. I doubt you do either!

I know an argument is what you want, and I can sense a control-freak aspect here. Which is why I'm not bothering. The arguments on both sides are well-rehearsed.

 

[danoyse]

I'm not desperate for a fight at all. We're having an argument. They happen a lot on message boards.

Actually it happens a lot on this message board on this board in particular. There are about 2 dozen threads on this very same subject.

The other threads that had nothing to do with this subject inevitably went there anyway, so you can probably pick any one and find what you're looking for on those as well.

Just trying to help...I can see this thread is going down a dark road already.

 

[X-Maniac]

I fear for this thread. It needs a good spanking.

 

[The Major]

I used to have these X-Men 3 conversations with X-Maniac every week until I finally realized it's pointless to argue with him. You can present facts and theories that back up your argument and X-Maniac will either change the subject, ignore, or periodically forget about the information that you presented. It's pathetic but, he also continues to deny that he has an agenda against anyone who says negative things about X-Men 3 inspite of spending almost 2 years trying to keep all of the X-Men 3 haters quite.

Do you think he might work for Fox?

One thing that should be noted is it isn't just Fox's comic book movies that people are disappointed with. It's 95% of their sci-fi and action movies that people are disappointed with and Star Wars does not count. Lucasfilm owns the copyrights. No studio has destroyed as many franchises as Fox has in the past 15 years. They ruined Aliens(Alien 3), Predator(Predator 2), AVP(AVP1 and 2), Eragon, X-Men(X3), Fantastic Four(1and2), Daredevil, Speed(Speed 2), Planet of the Apes(2001), LXG, and possibly Jumper as a result of it's horrible reviews and lukewarm boxoffice gross. This summer Fox will inexplicably be releasing an X-Files film that should have come out 7 years ago with a suicide release date. They will also, be releasing a DBZ movie with a script thrown together in a few weeks right before the writers strike took place.

They should just stop making genre and super-hero movies if they hate the so much.

They'd even save tonnes of money from buying licenses they have no intention of making quality films on.

Everyone who had their expectations completely destroyed by those abominations mentioned above have every right to be angry with Fox and complain about how their tyrant executives dictate the way their movies are made. Hiring hack or inexperienced directors, under-budgeting their films, and lying to fans about script reviews and run times, procrastinating to make films, and banning certain critics(Moriarty from AICN) they don't like from their screenings are common place with this company.

Didn't hear about the Moriarty thing.

It seems like they're more interested in screwing with people behind the scenes then making good movies. If only they used that energy into making good movies.

I thought I had seen it all until Fox decided to sue the theater one AICN critic worked for after he released a negative FF2 review. Then Fox decided to pull out a week before last summer's comic-con because they had no AVP footage to show!!! That was quite bizzare but, then eight months later Fox decides to sue Warner Brothers for the Watchmen rights weeks before post production is done on the Watchmen film inspite of not doing a damn thing with the rights for almost 20 years.

It makes sense in a cold logic ruthless kind of thinking.

 

[X-Maniac]

Do you think he might work for Fox?

Of course! That must be it! Anyone who has another opinion to yours must work for Fox! Yes, there's logic at its finest. Congrats.

 

[The Major]

Of course! That must be it! Anyone who has another opinion to yours must work for Fox! Yes, there's logic at its finest. Congrats.

Relax.

I'm sure you do know of "plants" on movie sites.

 

[The Major]

Actually it happens a lot on this message board on this board in particular. There are about 2 dozen threads on this very same subject.

Somehow this doesn't surprise me.

The other threads that had nothing to do with this subject inevitably went there anyway, so you can probably pick any one and find what you're looking for on those as well.

It's only logical. The X-men franchise has a fan-base that are extremely protective of the franchise. it's quite natural that they would talk about the bad things that X-3 did to the franchise.

Did anybody else bring up the Rothman article from AICN?

Just trying to help...I can see this thread is going down a dark road already.

Thanks for speaking up, danoyse.

 

[BMM]

Did anybody else bring up the Rothman article from AICN?

Yes. Most of us were here at the time of the script review's original release. Needless to say, it wasn't a very nice place to be.

 

[X-Maniac]

I'm sure you do know of "plants" on movie sites.

Of course. There are 'plants' supporting movies and 'plants' from rival studios who attack other movies/studios. It's a vicious and very political game.

But you raise all this stuff about X-Men as if somehow it's never been raised before.

 

[Storm22]

Dead horse people....dead horse!

 

[flavio_lebeau]

I'm sorry, I know this pic is used to death on forums, and it's been used here a lot, but...I have to post it, just as an attempt to bring you guys to the light:

 

[X-Maniac]

^^ flavio, there's no picture. We're still in the dark!

 

[danoyse]

It's only logical. The X-men franchise has a fan-base that are extremely protective of the franchise. it's quite natural that they would talk about the bad things that X-3 did to the franchise.

Did anybody else bring up the Rothman article from AICN?

Yeah, it was brought up.



Once or twice.



Per week.



For at least a year.



Probably longer.

 

[Theweepeople]

You're damn right!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODj-Dtx8-WA

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I agree.