The Amazing Spider-Man Is Spidey a Jerk?

[ehh]

I do agree at that point on the bridge, Peter realizes he can be a hero instead of some guy going after his uncle Ben's killer.

But when Captain Stacy dies, he also says, "I was wrong about you. Keep Gwen out of it." He should have said to keep Gwen safe and protect her, just like the comics. Then we wouldn't have Peter breaking the promise at the end of the film and all of the breakup drama in TASM2.

 

[PeterBenParker]

He's supposed to be a jerk in that scene. In The Amazing Spider-Man, Peter doesn't learn that with great power comes great responsibility when Uncle Ben is killed, he only learns after he saves the city for the first time.

The real turning point for Peter in the film is when he saves the kid on the bridge. This is the moment he starts acting altruistic as he starts realising how important he can be. Remember, in the previous scene Captain Stacey tells him off for think Spidey is a hero since he is has personal vendetta. And in the scene following the rescue, he stares into his mask, clearing wondering about who he really is.

 

[Herofan]

I think TASM Peter was very angry, to an overdone extent, and occasionally selfish but overall not a bad guy. I thought his anger and response (I did 80% of your job and this is what I get) to the cop at, after catching a crook, having a gun pulled on him was very understandable and not really jerky at all.

George was the jerk for demanding he make the promise (and Peter a little jerky for later trying to keep it, and certainly for then yet later getting upset that Gwen would move away).

 

[PeterBenParker]

Peter was a kid, simple as that.

May've been OOC for what people think of Peter (or what the past series had done -- making him a pushover in some cases), but it's clear throughout all his issues, the core of Peter Parker was still in tact -- especially Ultimate Peter Parker.

He loves and appreciates his Aunt and Uncle, he deals with bullies at school, he wants to get the girl (and in this scenario does), he has a massive interest in the realm of Science and when the mask is on, he fully embraces being another person.

At the same time, he's trying to be a kid. He talks to his parental figures like he's their friend as opposed being their nephew (very normal for Aunts/Uncles and their niece/nephews), he's making mistakes constantly, he's 'getting even' though its wrong. There's a lot in the film that has a nice balance.

Spoiler

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Spoiler

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Oh, and the Uncle Ben death scene still worked. The overall impact was still there and while they changed some dialogue and the location (and even adding Uncle Ben standing by his brother's morals right before his death), it's faithful to the original lesson -- especially from the Raimi films.

Let's look at the similarities, shall we?

• Peter goes away from his last meeting with Uncle Ben frustrated. In the Raimi film, it's because Peter blew up that Uncle Ben was treating him like his kid. In this film, it's because Peter was missing his own father and has lived in secrecy his entire life.
  
• Peter goes somewhere else to blow off steam. In the Raimi film, it's the wrestling arena. In this film, it's a walk followed by the store.
  
• Peter is ripped off and goes away even more frustrated, letting a robber steal from the guy that ripped Peter off. He has a chip on his shoulder and is clearly being selfish and frustrated.
  
• In the Raimi film, it's a promised reward of $3000 with the result being $100 because the wrestling promoter gets hung up technicalities and in this film, it's lack of two cents because the store clerk couldn't let two cents slide for a measly chocolate milk. Sure, the wants in this scene are different but the lessons learned from this scene are not.
  
• Peter refuses to help and lets the robber get away, echoing the earlier sentiments of the person who did Peter wrong. ("I miss the part where that's my problem" and "Not my policy" respectively)
  
• Due to the actions prior, Uncle Ben is killed and Peter is to blame because the man responsible is the man he could've helped.
  
• From Ben's death, Peter learns to be a better hero.

Simple, simple stuff but I guess it's much easier to just shout "NOT MY PETER" and call this Peter a dukee because he gets into an argument with Aunt May or teases breaking a promise that he immediately is conflicted over in the next film.

So, in conclusion, this Peter Parker is not a jerk. He's not perfect, no, but neither was the previous Peter before him and that's why I appreciate both of them because the core of Peter Parker is in tact.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

I mostly agree with your thorough post, PBP (respect, that took some effort).

My only 2 issues with this Peter are the gleefulness over the broken promise to Captain Stacy and him giving up on catching Ben's killer. I know that plot point was there as a form of character development, but I really just didn't care for it.

I thought Garfield's Peter was really reminiscent of the USM comic Peter and he had some really powerful and emotionally provocative scenes--both for drama and for laughs.

I didn't care for the skateboarder angle either, but it's so minor that it's hard to get in an uproar over.

I think there's definitely a middle ground on this series and Garfield's Peter, and I lean more towards the good. Outside of a few flaws (some big, some small) that he (mostly) couldn't do anything about, Garfield really delivered a great take on Peter Parker. Sadly, it's one that will likely be glossed over and more easily forgotten in time because of the fate of the TASM series.

 

[PeterBenParker]

I mostly agree with your thorough post, PBP (respect, that took some effort).

Appreciate it!

My only 2 issues with this Peter are the gleefulness over the broken promise to Captain Stacy and him giving up on catching Ben's killer. I know that plot point was there as a form of character development, but I really just didn't care for it.

The way I look at the broken promise ordeal is the way early relationships are. You get together, you fall in love, something happens that 'causes you to panic and get cold feet, you break it off hastily, you realize you made a mistake (despite your self-doubt still being present) and you get back together and it's just one long road of whether or not this can work.

I understand and get why people are bugged by the broken promise but I didn't get gleefulness from this Peter over it. He was shook up, he broke up with her and Gwen even asked if it was because of her father made him promise. I feel like he only got back together with her because he missed her and because of May's pep talk.

Now, granted, the whole thing may not work in one cohesive film so if anyone makes that argument, that's a fair and valid point. However, I'm looking at it between the two films as a branching story and it's because of that I feel it worked. I also feel like this Peter is very human as a result, which is why I gravitate towards this portrayal more than Tobey's.

As for your second point, yeah, I can't disagree there, really. He learned to a better hero by a combination of things and because of that, he stopped letting revenge motivate him but eh, I do agree Peter confronting the burglar is a staple of the character and always needs to be a factor in some form.

I thought Garfield's Peter was really reminiscent of the USM comic Peter and he had some really powerful and emotionally provocative scenes--both for drama and for laughs.

I really enjoyed his interactions with his family the most. Again, really modern. He joked with May about her spaghetti, he asked Ben where the flood was, Ben and Peter at the school, their fight with May present, his abrupt spat with May that was quickly subdued, the ending, etc.

I didn't care for the skateboarder angle either, but it's so minor that it's hard to get in an uproar over.

In one way, it's a pointless addition. In another way, it's an excuse for Peter to be so good with his balance -- especially after his spider powers.

I think there's definitely a middle ground on this series and Garfield's Peter, and I lean more towards the good. Outside of a few flaws (some big, some small) that he (mostly) couldn't do anything about, Garfield really delivered a great take on Peter Parker. Sadly, it's one that will likely be glossed over and more easily forgotten in time because of the fate of the TASM series.

A shame, but I guess it's for the greater good now that Marvel has the character back somewhat.

 

[Herofan]

Peter was a kid, simple as that.

May've been OOC for what people think of Peter (or what the past series had done -- making him a pushover in some cases), but it's clear throughout all his issues, the core of Peter Parker was still in tact -- especially Ultimate Peter Parker.

He loves and appreciates his Aunt and Uncle

One of the things that bothered me the most was he seemed really, really distant from Aunt May, not even doing much reaching out to her or mourning with her after Ben died, too big a deviation especially from the classic character and even to a lesser degree the Ultimate version.

he deals with bullies at school, he wants to get the girl (and in this scenario does)

Those were fine adaptations but it felt like he wasn't mocked or bullied very much, more like he was much more often just ignored by his peers.

he has a massive interest in the realm of Science

That felt kind of inconsistent, there were moments of it and they were nice but they felt too isolated (I guess he just found the school science unchallenging and uninteresting, although at one point Gwen says he's second in the class but he doesn't come off that way, I guess that's OK but he seemed pretty uninterested and unapplying himself aside from Connors's specific subject).

Peter refuses to help and lets the robber get away, echoing the earlier sentiments of the person who did Peter wrong. ("I miss the part where that's my problem" and "Not my policy" respectively)

• Due to the actions prior, Uncle Ben is killed and Peter is to blame because the man responsible is the man he could've helped.
• From Ben's death, Peter learns to be a better hero.

I thought the death scene worked (and it's not something that makes Peter more unlikeable than the comics or Raimi film) but it should have been enough, or at least work better, for that inaction and its consequence to get Peter to be a general crimefighter (he even thinks of himself as such and claims to be protecting the innocent) rather than just try to get specific revenge.

 

[PeterBenParker]

One of the things that bothered me the most was he seemed really, really distant from Aunt May, not even doing much reaching out to her or mourning with her after Ben died, too big a deviation especially from the classic character and even to a lesser degree the Ultimate version.

I disagree. I felt this was completely in tune to their relationship in the Ultimate line, as there it was more Peter/Ben then Peter/May which is what this film presented early on.

Also, he was responsible for his death so it'd make sense why this Peter seemed distant in some regards. How can he face his Aunt when his actions inadvertently got his Uncle and her husband murdered?

Besides, there was enough present in the film that the two cared for one another, such as Peter covering her up with a blanket when she was passed out shortly after Ben's death, getting angry with her but then quickly realizing it and stepping away from her not to upset her further and then of course the ending where they shared a moment together after he battled The Lizard.

Those were fine adaptations but it felt like he wasn't mocked or bullied very much, more like he was much more often just ignored by his peers.

He got hit in the head with a basketball at the start of the film and was made to flinch by Flash and his crew, his locker was used for a couple making out, he tried standing up for a guy that Flash was picking on and got beat up by it, inviting cheers from the group of kids and even had his camera kicked around as they were walking by. He was clearly seen as a loser who was always to himself, which paralleled Amazing Fantasy 15 with him always doing something of his own where the rest of his peers were always commenting on him being a nerd or something like that.

That felt kind of inconsistent, there were moments of it and they were nice but they felt too isolated (I guess he just found the school science unchallenging and uninteresting, although at one point Gwen says he's second in the class but he doesn't come off that way, I guess that's OK but he seemed pretty uninterested and unapplying himself aside from Connors's specific studies).

That's a fair argument. However, to me, it parallels him being a kid. Some mornings you get in class and no matter how you're doing in the class, you're just not zoned in, just going through the motions, etc.

A lot of it also stems from Sony being Sony with a lot being cut, including Peter drawing out a HUGE equation with Connors and further showcasing his smarts instead of taking his dad's algorithm and writing it out on a piece of paper.

Either way, I'll definitely give you that argument.

I thought the death scene worked (and it's not something that makes Peter more unlikeable than the comics or Raimi film) but it should have been enough, or at least work better, for that inaction and its consequence to get Peter to be a general crimefighter (he even thinks of himself as such and claims to be protecting the innocent) rather than just try to get specific revenge.

This I can agree with to some degree. However, the intent of it was to push Peter through a wrong direction (despite him technically doing good) to be corrected and grow. This film in a lot of ways is one, big origin story.

In the Raimi films, comics, cartoons, etc. it was always just Ben dies, Peter decides to honor Ben's death by doing good and that's it. This was a more extended version of that to me and I thought it worked.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Appreciate it!

Always.

The way I look at the broken promise ordeal is the way early relationships are. You get together, you fall in love, something happens that 'causes you to panic and get cold feet, you break it off hastily, you realize you made a mistake (despite your self-doubt still being present) and you get back together and it's just one long road of whether or not this can work.

I understand and get why people are bugged by the broken promise but I didn't get gleefulness from this Peter over it. He was shook up, he broke up with her and Gwen even asked if it was because of her father made him promise. I feel like he only got back together with her because he missed her and because of May's pep talk.

Now, granted, the whole thing may not work in one cohesive film so if anyone makes that argument, that's a fair and valid point. However, I'm looking at it between the two films as a branching story and it's because of that I feel it worked. I also feel like this Peter is very human as a result, which is why I gravitate towards this portrayal more than Tobey's.

I agree that it does resemble puppy love/high school crushing HOWEVER there usually isn't the caveat of a solemn vow made to a dying father mere days (weeks?) before breaking it with a grin and wink. Your argument is valiant, but I think if we'd seen more at the end of TASM1 what we got in the beginning of TASM2 (Peter struggling with his love for Gwen and his devotion to her protection) then it would have been much more effective. I can definitely see why that left a bad taste in people's mouths.

As for your second point, yeah, I can't disagree there, really. He learned to a better hero by a combination of things and because of that, he stopped letting revenge motivate him but eh, I do agree Peter confronting the burglar is a staple of the character and always needs to be a factor in some form.

I agree, the story wasn't a bad one per se--it just deviated way too far from the Spider-Man mythos IMO. It feels more like an alternate universe version of Spider-Man where he never caught the killer and truly completed his story.

They should have had the warehouse confrontation. Sigh.

I really enjoyed his interactions with his family the most. Again, really modern. He joked with May about her spaghetti, he asked Ben where the flood was, Ben and Peter at the school, their fight with May present, his abrupt spat with May that was quickly subdued, the ending, etc.

It was great. There was a warmth there, but also a realism factor--something that was missing in the Raimi movies. I really like both approaches for different reasons, but the "21st century family" vibe really worked for the interactions between the three in this film.

In one way, it's a pointless addition. In another way, it's an excuse for Peter to be so good with his balance -- especially after his spider powers.

Just not a fan of Peter being particularly coordinated/athletic before the bite I guess. Not that he couldn't be, he just hasn't been portrayed that way anywhere else.

A shame, but I guess it's for the greater good now that Marvel has the character back somewhat.

I'll always love Garfield's portrayal and hold fond memories of what I liked about these movies, and I hope others will, too. I'm actually inspired to go back and watch TASM1 for the first time in years by this conversation.

One of the things that bothered me the most was he seemed really, really distant from Aunt May, not even doing much reaching out to her or mourning with her after Ben died, too big a deviation especially from the classic character and even to a lesser degree the Ultimate version.

Idk man, that happened a lot in Ultimate. In the third arc, Aunt May actually breaks down about his seeming lack of love for her and he cries as he realizes he isn't treating her the way he should be. Real, raw, genuine moment. Wish they'd had a way to include that (they sort of did with the "my boy" scene in TASM2 but unfortunately that was tied to the parents plot and is therefore rendered less moving).

Also, he was responsible for his death so it'd make sense why this Peter seemed distant in some regards. How can he face his Aunt when his actions inadvertently got his Uncle and her husband murdered?

Really good point. Deep stuff.

I thought the death scene worked (and it's not something that makes Peter more unlikeable than the comics or Raimi film) but it should have been enough, or at least work better, for that inaction and its consequence to get Peter to be a general crimefighter (he even thinks of himself as such and claims to be protecting the innocent) rather than just try to get specific revenge.

This I can agree with to some degree. However, the intent of it was to push Peter through a wrong direction (despite him technically doing good) to be corrected and grow. This film in a lot of ways is one, big origin story.

In the Raimi films, comics, cartoons, etc. it was always just Ben dies, Peter decides to honor Ben's death by doing good and that's it. This was a more extended version of that to me and I thought it worked.

I actually disagree with this take. Peter was only out for revenge after Ben was killed--there's nothing to indicate that had he caught a random burglar he would have continued fighting crime. He only realized what he had to do when he saw THE Burglar, his role in the tragedy, and the misuse of his great power irresponsibly.

That's why I kind of liked the route they were taking him before the movie ended with no concrete resolution to the "find Ben's killer" plot. Again, not a fan of that creative decision at all even though I can understand why someone would (misguidedly IMO) decide it was a good route to take.

 

[The Joker]

The Peter was a kid excuse doesn't wash. He's old enough and mature enough to know the difference between right and wrong, especially after he has decided to take on the role of being a hero.

Making a promise to a dying man about the safety and welfare of his daughter is about as serious a promise as you can get. Laughing it off as the kind of promise that is the most fun to break is jerk behavior at it's utmost. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[Web-Head]

I think there's definitely a middle ground on this series and Garfield's Peter, and I lean more towards the good. Outside of a few flaws (some big, some small) that he (mostly) couldn't do anything about, Garfield really delivered a great take on Peter Parker. Sadly, it's one that will likely be glossed over and more easily forgotten in time because of the fate of the TASM series.

Agreed, definitely. Most of the problems I see people had with Andrew's Peter Parker can be traced back to the script.

I felt that his Peter improved in TASM 2 as well.

Regardless of how you feel about each film, he did what he could and made his scenes enjoyable to me.

 

[Herofan]

I disagree. I felt this was completely in tune to their relationship in the Ultimate line, as there it was more Peter/Ben then Peter/May which is what this film presented early on.

Also, he was responsible for his death so it'd make sense why this Peter seemed distant in some regards. How can he face his Aunt when his actions inadvertently got his Uncle and her husband murdered?

I do prefer the classic version; while his guilt could cause some distance he would hopefully see that avoiding her and/or acting estranged would hurt her more although I guess that's an OK, believable character flaw.

He got hit in the head with a basketball at the start of the film and was made to flinch by Flash and his crew, his locker was used for a couple making out, he tried standing up for a guy that Flash was picking on and got beat up by it, inviting cheers from the group of kids and even had his camera kicked around as they were walking by.

The couple seemed oblivious more than malicious or mocking (especially if the locker next to Peter's was one of theirs) and while Flash and his crew occasionally picked on him it seemed like it was rare and/or not very bad (as Flash seemed to really expect him to take the picture, a way of denigrating him but also suggesting that they didn't dislike each other and/or interact that much). The crowd, although some were mean and were cheering on the initial bullying of the other guy, didn't really seem to dislike Peter or cheer him getting beat up, just to be surprised that Peter had challenged Flash.

This I can agree with to some degree. However, the intent of it was to push Peter through a wrong direction (despite him technically doing good) to be corrected and grow. This film in a lot of ways is one, big origin story.

In the Raimi films, comics, cartoons, etc. it was always just Ben dies, Peter decides to honor Ben's death by doing good and that's it. This was a more extended version of that to me and I thought it worked.

It felt a little like change for the sake of change but on the other hand it wasn't a very bad change; I did think him saving the kid and then identifying himself as Spider-Man and realizing and saying to Gwen that maybe stopping bad guys and protecting people is his job were satisfying scenes.

Making a promise to a dying man about the safety and welfare of his daughter is about as serious a promise as you can get.

Aside from that it wasn't much of a willing promise or oath but something George pretty much made him agree to under duress, I think Gwen's view that it was at least as much her decision to make more than something for George to have dictated is at least as valid.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

Aside from that it wasn't much of a willing promise or oath but something George pretty much made him agree to under duress, I think Gwen's view that it was at least as much her decision to make more than something for George to have dictated is at least as valid.

I wish this would have been emphasized more than the Twilight-esque promise beak.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

Let's see.
He takes someone else's id to get into OsCorp. He then sneaks into a restricted area.
He takes credit for his father's "decay rate algorithm".
Oh yeah and he breaks a promise to Gwen's dad.

Agreed. He make fun of breaking promise like it was funny. The way he show off his power in basketball scene really jerkish too.

Andrew Garfield Peter the worst. So unlikable.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

JERK COUNTER:

1. Steal someone's identity. He didn't know it out of being a jerk, but it's still relatable.
2. Breaking the bathroom facilities without mentioning it to his uncle.
3. Telling Gwen his uncle is a pathological liar.
4. Not replying to his uncle's important phone call.
5. Getting angry at his uncle when he was teaching him responsibility. Relatable kind of jerkness.
6. Accepting stolen chocolate milk.
7. Sneaking into Gwen's room.
8. Sneaking into Gwen's room a second time, with sewage.
9. Sneaking Gwen out of her room at night for a swing.

Nothing else is a jerk move. He did say broken promises are the best kind, but as I repeated so many times, especially after someone else pointed it out; Peter promised to keep Gwen out of his adventures and not to stay away from her, he kept that promise in the sequel.

 

[ItchyWebShooter]

1. Steal someone's identity. He didn't know it out of being a jerk, but it's still relatable.
2. Breaking the bathroom facilities without mentioning it to his uncle. Makes him a jerk? lol
3. Telling Gwen his uncle is a pathological liar. Clearly a joke made out of awkwardness. Not jerky at all. Charming moreso.
4. Not replying to his uncle's important phone call.
   [*]Getting angry at his uncle when he was teaching him responsibility. Relatable kind of jerkness.
   [*]Accepting stolen chocolate milk.
5. Sneaking into Gwen's room. Basically makes him every 15-year-old ever.
6. Sneaking into Gwen's room a second time, with sewage. He had nowhere else to go. This is more a testament to his trust of her and hers of him than to any type of jerkiness.
7. Sneaking Gwen out of her room at night for a swing. Eh. Kind of like sneaking out without powers. Basically every teenager has done it. Doesn't make them less jerky, but relatable to be sure.

JERK COUNTER:
Nothing else is a jerk move. He did say broken promises are the best kind, but as I repeated so many times, especially after someone else pointed it out; Peter promised to keep Gwen out of his adventures and not to stay away from her, he kept that promise in the sequel.

Never thought of it that way to be honest.

 

[PeterBenParker]

Never thought of it that way to be honest.

You're not the first, either, as I think a lot of people got hung up on that direct line then what it actually meant (or at least what Webb was trying to convey).

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Breaking the bathroom facilities without mentioning it to his uncle. Makes him a jerk? lol

In a way. That moment is funny.

Telling Gwen his uncle is a pathological liar. Clearly a joke made out of awkwardness. Not jerky at all. Charming moreso.

I'll take it the way you say it.

Sneaking into Gwen's room. Basically makes him every 15-year-old ever.

Sneaking Gwen out of her room at night for a swing. Eh. Kind of like sneaking out without powers. Basically every teenager has done it. Doesn't make them less jerky, but relatable to be sure.

Not me, I never had a girlfriend.

 

[Herofan]

One scene where Peter does seem like a jerk, but is also just confusing is when he says in response to Ben invoking his father's philosophy of responsibility, "Where is he? Where's my dad? He didn't think it was his responsibility to be here and tell me this himself?"

It's really not clear that he's still alive but absent, I think the presumption is (much) more that he died (hence why Ben gets real angry, "Come on, how dare you?") and Peter looks really jerkish for blaming his parents for dying even if they had previously left him (in what may have been for a short time if they had lived)-but we really don't know.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Doesn't seem like an ambiguous way of telling he's alive, it feels like a kid frustrated to hear an advice from his father after a decade of him disappearing, and was venting out after that sudden unexpected bit of rage that consumed him.

 

[Herofan]

But did he disappear for a decade (I guess he kind of did but not quite) if he died soon after he initially disappeared? I guess it could feel that way, that the leaving was intentional for all that time, to someone who felt hurt and abandoned even if that more logically wasn't what happened but it still seems pretty harsh to act as if having died was intentional.