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The Dark Knight Rises Is "The Dark Knight Rises" as grounded in reality as its predecessors?

Only TDK managed to do that. BB was pretty self-contained, like TDKR was.

Nope in BB as well. Joker man, I'm copying your post here again:

Joe Chill, an example of the desperate who took the lives of Bruce's parents. Shows how bad in Gotham things got. An example of the kind of person who kills when they're hungry as Ra's put it.

The homeless man, a flavor of the lowest in Gotham who are not bad guys, haven't given into the desperation and accept the poverty situation of Gotham. He could have mugged Bruce or tried to steal from him, but he didn't.

D.A. Finch and his reluctance to prosecute because Falcone has half the city bought and paid for. An example of the "Good people scared" that Rachel spoke about.

Flass, the corrupt Cop. An obvious one. The rotten apples good people like Gordon has to work with and can't do anything about it.

Judge Faden, the corrupt judge. This man can set people free to line up for assassination for Falcone. An example of how Falcone's corruption has spread into the legal system.

The upper class people at the hotel scene. People who are not desperate, not affected by crime, and therefore have a divided opinion on Batman tackling crime in Gotham. Some think he's great, others think he is crazy, shouldn't take the law into his own hands etc.

Earle, more upper class. A man in power who abuses his power by covering up thefts in his company. He's not corrupt. He's just a bad egg.

The Felafel guy, the lower class. Struggles to earn a living and is abused by the corrupt like Flass by taking his money.

The Narrows kid, more lower class. The kind of good people who populate the Narrows. The "dirty" section of Gotham.

There's a whole bunch of different types and classes of Gothamites and all used effectively in the story to paint a personality and reaction to all things in Gotham.

Sod all personalities like that sort of variety in Rises.

But BB still had moments where Gotham reacted to Batman. Only in a few scenes but it was still there.

Quoted for truth.

The issue for me was that Bane wanted Gotham to tear itself apart. He said he wants Bruce "watch them clambering over eachother" so that he can understand the depths of his failure. But we never see that. Gotham looks pretty fine to me. I do think there was two films worth of material here and Nolan done the best possible job when condensing them in to two. Gotham should have been a massive part of the story no it didn't needs heaps of social/class split but just enough to know how Gotham was. After five months Gotham should have been hanging on by a thread but at the end all we see are people walking out of their houses? As if they have been sitting in the whole time waiting for this all to blow over. It never felt like anyone wanted Batman to return.

The part where we see the flaming bat-signal to me should have been THEE moment of the film. That should be the part where the whole of Gotham take a stand but all we see is one character.

A two-parter could easily have been done. It could have focused on Bruce and his current life and him preparing to take the streets once again. We could have had more of Bane and him slowly building an army underground and throughout Gotham. Gotham's current state and more in depth with the Harvey Dent act. Much much more of Selina. The Wayne Legacy and how Bruce Wayne is affecting it. Then Bane's Stock Exchange and Bruce decides it is time to return. Then Batman planning to infiltrate Bane's lair. More Miranda Tate and the energy stuff. Could also have Bane's plan a lot more fleshed out than it was and show that Gotham is still very corrupt and that the Dent act has really only papered over the cracks, this would also give more sense to Talia/Bane's reason to want to destroy Gotham. Gotham Citizens/Police reaction/Gordon reaction to Batman returning. Batman confronting Bane then Bruce thrown in prison. Bane takes over Gotham - End of Part 1. Loads to go with there may not sound interesting but I'm sure Nolan would have found a way.

Part two would be all about Bruce and him training in prison. Much more about how Gotham is coping under Bane and also Selina turning away from her crime lifestyle because of it. Groups of Gothamite rebels trying to fight Bane's men. Gotham simply turning against itself. People living in poverty. The people turning to Batman for their only hope. Some people turning/accepting Bane as their new saviour. Bruce watching his city tortured. We actually feel the 5 months pass this way and it isn't done in one cut. Much more of Bane's backstory. Then Bruce gets free gets back to Gotham and does the whole bridge stuff. Then the final battle which can also be a lot more fleshed out and feel like a city fighting for its life.

You may not like I'm saying that there was potential here for the film to be a two parter. A lot of the marketing was built on Batman vs Bane/RISE/Army vs Police where in reality the fight wasn't really focused on I think 30 seconds after we see that brawl its Batman/Bane and the rest is never focused on.

Quoted for truth again.
 
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The issue for me was that Bane wanted Gotham to tear itself apart. He said he wants Bruce "watch them clambering over eachother" so that he can understand the depths of his failure. But we never see that. Gotham looks pretty fine to me. I do think there was two films worth of material here and Nolan done the best possible job when condensing them in to two. Gotham should have been a massive part of the story no it didn't needs heaps of social/class split but just enough to know how Gotham was. After five months Gotham should have been hanging on by a thread but at the end all we see are people walking out of their houses? As if they have been sitting in the whole time waiting for this all to blow over. It never felt like anyone wanted Batman to return.

The part where we see the flaming bat-signal to me should have been THEE moment of the film. That should be the part where the whole of Gotham take a stand but all we see is one character.

A two-parter could easily have been done. It could have focused on Bruce and his current life and him preparing to take the streets once again. We could have had more of Bane and him slowly building an army underground and throughout Gotham. Gotham's current state and more in depth with the Harvey Dent act. Much much more of Selina. The Wayne Legacy and how Bruce Wayne is affecting it. Then Bane's Stock Exchange and Bruce decides it is time to return. Then Batman planning to infiltrate Bane's lair. More Miranda Tate and the energy stuff. Could also have Bane's plan a lot more fleshed out than it was and show that Gotham is still very corrupt and that the Dent act has really only papered over the cracks, this would also give more sense to Talia/Bane's reason to want to destroy Gotham. Gotham Citizens/Police reaction/Gordon reaction to Batman returning. Batman confronting Bane then Bruce thrown in prison. Bane takes over Gotham - End of Part 1. Loads to go with there may not sound interesting but I'm sure Nolan would have found a way.

Part two would be all about Bruce and him training in prison. Much more about how Gotham is coping under Bane and also Selina turning away from her crime lifestyle because of it. Groups of Gothamite rebels trying to fight Bane's men. Gotham simply turning against itself. People living in poverty. The people turning to Batman for their only hope. Some people turning/accepting Bane as their new saviour. Bruce watching his city tortured. We actually feel the 5 months pass this way and it isn't done in one cut. Much more of Bane's backstory. Then Bruce gets free gets back to Gotham and does the whole bridge stuff. Then the final battle which can also be a lot more fleshed out and feel like a city fighting for its life.

You may not like I'm saying that there was potential here for the film to be a two parter. A lot of the marketing was built on Batman vs Bane/RISE/Army vs Police where in reality the fight wasn't really focused on I think 30 seconds after we see that brawl its Batman/Bane and the rest is never focused on.

EDIT - Just messed up my last two posts somehow they've taken eachothers places. Probably my mistake :D
 
All of those characters in Batman Begins could be compared to the different characters being used in The Dark Knight Rises. It was only in The Dark Knight that we had a very vocal Gotham City, not just single characters.
 
Also, the scope was broader this time. So we heard the voices of other characters like the prisoners from the Pit and the President. Just they were not Gothamites. We had the orphans and the priest, also "Holly" Jen "Robinson" (Why they didn't use her name?!) from the lower class and higher class like Dagget and the Congressman. The scope is just big, and the fact that they managed to do that while focusing on Bruce's journey is remarkable.
 
TDKR IMO is not a messy inferior film, to me it is just confused. Seemed like Nolan couldn't quite find enough space for both strong big story and spectacle.

If the story revolves around a city being taken over you need to know how the city is reacting. Gotham IMO felt more like a city in TDK than TDKR. Gotham looks in good shape to me. The "Ghost town" thing is just a cheap excuse to me. We've seen Gotham reactions in BB and TDK a few examples being the BB dinner table scene (swimming pool), Police discussion in BB, Rachel and her lawyer friend, things working differently after Falcone's take down, Dinner table scene in TDK, Chaos in hospitals, Ferry scene, Chaos outside TV station, Pub with Engel's Joker speech, Army around with heaps of traffic and others. All these things no matter how big or small or whether you like them or dislike them build a city outside of Batman/Gordon/Dent/Alfred etc... yet in TDKR the city felt contained. I've said before that there were only about 3/4 reaction shots with people we don't know. And at NO POINT does anyone other than Blake/Gordon really get across that the city needs/wants Batman. It is as if the city doesn't care.

It is such a shame. I love the film, love the story/acting/ending almost everything but Nolan missed out on possibly the main thing that would have made the story exceptional. It is a strange choice to me as I can't help but think they must have watched the previous films before making this one so to miss out the citizens of Gotham just seems bizarre to me.

The issue for me was that Bane wanted Gotham to tear itself apart. He said he wants Bruce "watch them clambering over eachother" so that he can understand the depths of his failure. But we never see that. Gotham looks pretty fine to me. I do think there was two films worth of material here and Nolan done the best possible job when condensing them in to two. Gotham should have been a massive part of the story no it didn't needs heaps of social/class split but just enough to know how Gotham was. After five months Gotham should have been hanging on by a thread but at the end all we see are people walking out of their houses? As if they have been sitting in the whole time waiting for this all to blow over. It never felt like anyone wanted Batman to return.

The part where we see the flaming bat-signal to me should have been THEE moment of the film. That should be the part where the whole of Gotham take a stand but all we see is one character.

A two-parter could easily have been done. It could have focused on Bruce and his current life and him preparing to take the streets once again. We could have had more of Bane and him slowly building an army underground and throughout Gotham. Gotham's current state and more in depth with the Harvey Dent act. Much much more of Selina. The Wayne Legacy and how Bruce Wayne is affecting it. Then Bane's Stock Exchange and Bruce decides it is time to return. Then Batman planning to infiltrate Bane's lair. More Miranda Tate and the energy stuff. Could also have Bane's plan a lot more fleshed out than it was and show that Gotham is still very corrupt and that the Dent act has really only papered over the cracks, this would also give more sense to Talia/Bane's reason to want to destroy Gotham. Gotham Citizens/Police reaction/Gordon reaction to Batman returning. Batman confronting Bane then Bruce thrown in prison. Bane takes over Gotham - End of Part 1. Loads to go with there may not sound interesting but I'm sure Nolan would have found a way.

Part two would be all about Bruce and him training in prison. Much more about how Gotham is coping under Bane and also Selina turning away from her crime lifestyle because of it. Groups of Gothamite rebels trying to fight Bane's men. Gotham simply turning against itself. People living in poverty. The people turning to Batman for their only hope. Some people turning/accepting Bane as their new saviour. Bruce watching his city tortured. We actually feel the 5 months pass this way and it isn't done in one cut. Much more of Bane's backstory. Then Bruce gets free gets back to Gotham and does the whole bridge stuff. Then the final battle which can also be a lot more fleshed out and feel like a city fighting for its life.

You may not like I'm saying that there was potential here for the film to be a two parter. A lot of the marketing was built on Batman vs Bane/RISE/Army vs Police where in reality the fight wasn't really focused on I think 30 seconds after we see that brawl its Batman/Bane and the rest is never focused on.

EDIT - Just messed up my last two posts somehow they've taken eachothers places. Probably my mistake :D

Excellent posts :up:

Also, the scope was broader this time. So we heard the voices of other characters like the prisoners from the Pit and the President. Just they were not Gothamites.

So their relevance to Gotham was non existent. Why should we care what outsiders think? It's not them facing the dramas in Gotham.

We had the orphans and the priest, also "Holly" Jen "Robinson" (Why they didn't use her name?!) from the lower class and higher class like Dagget and the Congressman. The scope is just big, and the fact that they managed to do that while focusing on Bruce's journey is remarkable.

One orphan, a priest who didn't offer any insight or personal perspective into the major goings on in Gotham other than warning Blake that the Cops were being hunted. Ditto with Jen. She was just Selina's accomplice.

The fact that the scope was so big and they managed to do so little is not remarkable. It's disappointing.

I've said this before but it's almost 2 films worth of story crammed into one movie. It's too big for it's own good. I have no doubt that this particular story could be done fantastically if time were permitted, but it's a story that needs longer than 2 hours 45mins to really hit the mark, 30 mins minimum. It saddens me that I can actually picture a better movie mentally in my head.

Exactly. Big scope, ambitious movie, but not enough achieved, including the lack of Gotham personality.

But BB still had moments where Gotham reacted to Batman. Only in a few scenes but it was still there.

Exactly. There was a lot of Gotham personality going on.
 
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Speaking of Gotham personality, I kinda missed Mike Engel. :funny: Really made TDK feel real with that talk show stuff.
 
He was one of those guys one love to hate. He was against Batman from the Gotham Tonight segments to the end until Batman saves him. Kinda like how Bruce saves Mr. Reese, both realize what Batman truly stands for. At least until the blame is turned on him. Foley played a similar role. I hated the guy, but I felt for him when he showed that there was more to him inspired by the burning bat symbol. It was a nice moment.
 
Speaking of Gotham personality, I kinda missed Mike Engel. :funny: Really made TDK feel real with that talk show stuff.

He was a good device, too, for offering popular opinions from Gotham. Like when Dent was laid up in hospital after Joker's attack on him, and Engel says something like "We wish him a speedy recovery because god knows we need him now".

Letting us know Gotham is still yearning for it's white knight to come back. Still having hope and faith in him even though he's taken a hit from the underworld.
 
I just imagined Bane being on Gotham Tonight.

:lmao:
 
The first 15/20 minutes of TDKR are beautiful. You have the intro of the new villain, learnt that Gotham looks to be a better place, Bruce has become a recluse, Batman has been gone yet not forgotten. We also learn from outsiders that Gotham is in a peace time and it hasn't been like it for a long time, that Batman is being hunted. We also learn from Selina that Bruce hasn't even been seen publicly and that stories are being made up about him. You have Blake a new good cop likely inspired by Batman. The first shot of a peaceful looking Gotham. A rusty Bat signal and a much more wiser Gordon. All in 15/20 minutes.

Then Gotham is pretty much ignored after that. At no point during the final battle or when Bane makes his televised speech or when Batman returns do we see any random Gothamite. It's just people we know I think this film needed a Gotham precense the most.
 
I just imagined Bane being on Gotham Tonight.

:lmao:

yoz1h.jpg


:woot:
 
Nope in BB as well. Joker man, I'm copying your post here again:

Joe Chill, an example of the desperate who took the lives of Bruce's parents. Shows how bad in Gotham things got. An example of the kind of person who kills when they're hungry as Ra's put it.

The homeless man, a flavor of the lowest in Gotham who are not bad guys, haven't given into the desperation and accept the poverty situation of Gotham. He could have mugged Bruce or tried to steal from him, but he didn't.

D.A. Finch and his reluctance to prosecute because Falcone has half the city bought and paid for. An example of the "Good people scared" that Rachel spoke about.

Flass, the corrupt Cop. An obvious one. The rotten apples good people like Gordon has to work with and can't do anything about it.

Judge Faden, the corrupt judge. This man can set people free to line up for assassination for Falcone. An example of how Falcone's corruption has spread into the legal system.

The upper class people at the hotel scene. People who are not desperate, not affected by crime, and therefore have a divided opinion on Batman tackling crime in Gotham. Some think he's great, others think he is crazy, shouldn't take the law into his own hands etc.

Earle, more upper class. A man in power who abuses his power by covering up thefts in his company. He's not corrupt. He's just a bad egg.

The Felafel guy, the lower class. Struggles to earn a living and is abused by the corrupt like Flass by taking his money.

The Narrows kid, more lower class. The kind of good people who populate the Narrows. The "dirty" section of Gotham.

There's a whole bunch of different types and classes of Gothamites and all used effectively in the story to paint a personality and reaction to all things in Gotham.

Sod all personalities like that sort of variety in Rises.
Come on, really?


Selina Kyle representing the poor who are still struggling in this Dent Act period, maybe worse than ever as represented in the film, as the only option for them to survive is to steal, and anybody caught doing anything is trapped in prison without parole. Mirrors our class system today and the cyclical trap that lower income areas end up being.

Her roommate who's name I forgot as well, though one with even less moral standing than Selina.

Daggett represents the CEO/the man who is willing to do whatever he can for more power/wealth.

His right hand man who gets sent out to exile is part of the corruption in Gotham, acting as an intermediary between the money (Daggett) and muscle (Bane).

Blake representing those who have been through hard times and seek justice above all else even in this dire time.

Foley is the man looking for all the superficial ways to make himself look better, only to later realize the true worth is in standing up directly for what is right, even in the face of certain death.

The orphans are the ones who need help but left behind in a time where the city is preoccupied trying to restore its image, even if it's merely superficial. They also still believe in the hope Batman brought and wish for him to come again and help them out of these seemingly hopeless times.

The police officers represent the people the most directly, lead astray and into a trap by their own foolish leaders once again so bent on the capture of an individual they put the whole city at risk. They also still have small hope within their group that Batman will return and bring back hope to their city. They later redeem themselves.

The special ops group is the one true, behind the scenes attempt from the government to help out, but they never have the audacity to stand up for truth face-to-face, which mirrors the ideology of the police beforehand, and the importance politics plays in the unwillingness of those in power to truly help anybody for fear of political repercussions.

There is definitely more, but the point is TDKR is dense with characters making a difference to the story and setting.

I also stand by the fact that Nolan made the right choice in giving us the citizens' viewpoints through specific characters rather than through general crowd reactions. This is a staple of filmmaking, giving the audience a better chance to attach emotionally to the same issues. It's also less called for in this movie to show the people because it really is about those who CAN do something having the will to do it, and for those common people to be able to have hope and belief in those with the power, unlike TDK where the battle was literally with every human mind in Gotham.
 
TDKR IMO to me is just confused. Seemed like Nolan couldn't quite find enough space for both strong big story and spectacle.

If the story revolves around a city being taken over you need to know how the city is reacting. Gotham IMO felt more like a city in TDK than TDKR. Gotham looks in good shape to me. The "Ghost town" thing is just a cheap excuse to me. We've seen Gotham reactions in BB and TDK a few examples being the BB dinner table scene (swimming pool), Police discussion in BB, Rachel and her lawyer friend, things working differently after Falcone's take down, Dinner table scene in TDK, Chaos in hospitals, Ferry scene, Chaos outside TV station, Pub with Engel's Joker speech, Army around with heaps of traffic and others. All these things no matter how big or small or whether you like them or dislike them build a city outside of Batman/Gordon/Dent/Alfred etc... yet in TDKR the city felt contained. I've said before that there were only about 3/4 reaction shots with people we don't know. And at NO POINT does anyone other than Blake/Gordon really get across that the city needs/wants Batman. It is as if the city doesn't care.

It is such a shame. I love the film, love the story/acting/ending almost everything but Nolan missed out on possibly the main thing that would have made the story exceptional. It is a strange choice to me as I can't help but think they must have watched the previous films before making this one so to miss out the citizens of Gotham just seems bizarre to me.

Agreed.
 
Gotham Citizens in TDKR.

Selina Kyle and Jen - Underprivileged class.

School Children in the School Bus.

Construction Site Cement Truck Driver - Low income Worker in Gotham.

Commissioner Gordon, Foley and various GCPD Cops - Law enforcers in Gotham City.

Black Gate Prisoners - Gotham's under world and criminals.

Blake and Orphange manager

Gotham Rogue Fans - Gotham citizens.

Gotham's Stock Brokers and Traders.

Various Board members of Wayne Enterprises.

So many people of Gotham have been included.
 
Come on, really?


Selina Kyle representing the poor who are still struggling in this Dent Act period, maybe worse than ever as represented in the film, as the only option for them to survive is to steal, and anybody caught doing anything is trapped in prison without parole. Mirrors our class system today and the cyclical trap that lower income areas end up being.

Her roommate who's name I forgot as well, though one with even less moral standing than Selina.

Daggett represents the CEO/the man who is willing to do whatever he can for more power/wealth.

His right hand man who gets sent out to exile is part of the corruption in Gotham, acting as an intermediary between the money (Daggett) and muscle (Bane).

Blake representing those who have been through hard times and seek justice above all else even in this dire time.

Foley is the man looking for all the superficial ways to make himself look better, only to later realize the true worth is in standing up directly for what is right, even in the face of certain death.

The orphans are the ones who need help but left behind in a time where the city is preoccupied trying to restore its image, even if it's merely superficial. They also still believe in the hope Batman brought and wish for him to come again and help them out of these seemingly hopeless times.

The police officers represent the people the most directly, lead astray and into a trap by their own foolish leaders once again so bent on the capture of an individual they put the whole city at risk. They also still have small hope within their group that Batman will return and bring back hope to their city. They later redeem themselves.

The special ops group is the one true, behind the scenes attempt from the government to help out, but they never have the audacity to stand up for truth face-to-face, which mirrors the ideology of the police beforehand, and the importance politics plays in the unwillingness of those in power to truly help anybody for fear of political repercussions.

There is definitely more, but the point is TDKR is dense with characters making a difference to the story and setting.

I also stand by the fact that Nolan made the right choice in giving us the citizens' viewpoints through specific characters rather than through general crowd reactions. This is a staple of filmmaking, giving the audience a better chance to attach emotionally to the same issues. It's also less called for in this movie to show the people because it really is about those who CAN do something having the will to do it, and for those common people to be able to have hope and belief in those with the power, unlike TDK where the battle was literally with every human mind in Gotham.

Agreed.
 
Come on, really?

Really. It's a fact.

Selina Kyle representing the poor who are still struggling in this Dent Act period, maybe worse than ever as represented in the film, as the only option for them to survive is to steal, and anybody caught doing anything is trapped in prison without parole. Mirrors our class system today and the cyclical trap that lower income areas end up being.

Daggett represents the CEO/the man who is willing to do whatever he can for more power/wealth.

Blake representing those who have been through hard times and seek justice above all else even in this dire time.

Foley is the man looking for all the superficial ways to make himself look better, only to later realize the true worth is in standing up directly for what is right, even in the face of certain death.

None of these count. They are main characters. Not the little people of Gotham.

Her roommate who's name I forgot as well, though one with even less moral standing than Selina.

She didn't do anything except help Selina.

The orphans are the ones who need help but left behind in a time where the city is preoccupied trying to restore its image, even if it's merely superficial. They also still believe in the hope Batman brought and wish for him to come again and help them out of these seemingly hopeless times.

Ehhh no, one orphan, just one, wants Batman. Did ya see any of the others hyping about Batman?

The police officers represent the people the most directly, lead astray and into a trap by their own foolish leaders once again so bent on the capture of an individual they put the whole city at risk. They also still have small hope within their group that Batman will return and bring back hope to their city. They later redeem themselves.

What is this waffle? The Cops were following the orders of their boss, Gordon. He's the idiot who sent them all down into the tunnels. Blake is the only one who has hope Batman will be back by putting those stupid little chalk symbols on buildings.

The special ops group is the one true, behind the scenes attempt from the government to help out, but they never have the audacity to stand up for truth face-to-face, which mirrors the ideology of the police beforehand, and the importance politics plays in the unwillingness of those in power to truly help anybody for fear of political repercussions.

Special Ops = not Gothamites.

There is definitely more, but the point is TDKR is dense with characters making a difference to the story and setting.

Except it's not. You just have the main characters and one orphan.

I also stand by the fact that Nolan made the right choice in giving us the citizens' viewpoints through specific characters rather than through general crowd reactions. This is a staple of filmmaking, giving the audience a better chance to attach emotionally to the same issues.

Nope. Good film making is being able to do both like he did in Begins and TDK. Bad film making is making a flick that is all about the city's people more than it was the last two times and not showing any Gotham people except his main characters.

That's the worst of the worst.

Gotham Citizens in TDKR.

Selina Kyle and Jen - Underprivileged class.

Main character.

School Children in the School Bus.

What did they say or do?

Construction Site Cement Truck Driver - Low income Worker in Gotham.

What did they say or do?

Commissioner Gordon, Foley and various GCPD Cops - Law enforcers in Gotham City.

Gordon and Foley = main characters.. Cops didn't do anything except be sheep to their bosses orders.

Black Gate Prisoners - Gotham's under world and criminals.

They didn't do anything except get a free ticket to freedom.

Blake and Orphange manager

Main character.

Gotham Rogue Fans - Gotham citizens.

Gotham's Stock Brokers and Traders.

Various Board members of Wayne Enterprises.

Didn't say or do anything.

So many people of Gotham have been included.

Nope because apart from the main characters and one orphan, none of them say anything or do anything except just be seen. Then compare them to the Gotham people in the other movies and what they did for the story situations.

Big difference.
 
The first 15/20 minutes of TDKR are beautiful. You have the intro of the new villain, learnt that Gotham looks to be a better place, Bruce has become a recluse, Batman has been gone yet not forgotten. We also learn from outsiders that Gotham is in a peace time and it hasn't been like it for a long time, that Batman is being hunted. We also learn from Selina that Bruce hasn't even been seen publicly and that stories are being made up about him. You have Blake a new good cop likely inspired by Batman. The first shot of a peaceful looking Gotham. A rusty Bat signal and a much more wiser Gordon. All in 15/20 minutes.

Then Gotham is pretty much ignored after that. At no point during the final battle or when Bane makes his televised speech or when Batman returns do we see any random Gothamite. It's just people we know I think this film needed a Gotham precense the most.

Quoted for truth.

Gotham was ignored.
 
What did you expect from the characters who are fringe characters ? Hold placards and shout slogans against Bane ? They were too much scared after his control of the City for five months.
 
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Lol, Fudgie, I wasn't disputing your facts, but rather your argument.

So to you, because they are main characters, they somehow don't count as citizens of Gotham? Even if they hadn't been introduced before TDKR?

I thought the point of the examples from BB was that they related to the status of Gotham, and in that way, all three movies have done that with great aplomb. TDKR had to use more main characters to get these things across because there simply isn't enough time to start also relating to a few moments with Gotham's citizens. If anything, having them all be more or less principle characters and still manage to fill those roles is way more impressive writing than just using the image of citizens. BB's side characters were one dimensional pawns, there only to represent Gotham. In this film they do much more, using that representation of Gotham to then directly affect our protagonist, Bruce. Whether it works for you is personal preference, but from a filmmaking standpoint, it is simply a stronger and more efficient use of character to reach the same means.
 
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What did you expect from the characters who are fringe characters ? Hold placards and shout slogans against Bane ? They were too much scared after his control of the City for five months.

Yeah cos that's how they did it with Joker when he had them scared witless :whatever:

So Fudgie, because they are main characters, they somehow don't count as citizens of Gotham? Even if they hadn't been introduced before TDKR?

You're doing it wrong, imo.

No you're doing it wrong. A main character is a main character so they can't escape being involved in the main plotting of the flick can they. What are they gonna do pretend Bane and his cronies ain't there and be chattering about something else like the weather?

The magic of a movie is bringing in the little people who are not the main speak heads to show how it's affecting the city and showing the personality of the city with the minors. That's how Nolan did it the last two times. It was aces.

You can show me all the orphans and Cops and stock exchange snobs ya like. But when they ain't saying or doing anything then they might as well be oompa loompas.
 
The first 15/20 minutes of TDKR are beautiful. You have the intro of the new villain, learnt that Gotham looks to be a better place, Bruce has become a recluse, Batman has been gone yet not forgotten. We also learn from outsiders that Gotham is in a peace time and it hasn't been like it for a long time, that Batman is being hunted. We also learn from Selina that Bruce hasn't even been seen publicly and that stories are being made up about him. You have Blake a new good cop likely inspired by Batman. The first shot of a peaceful looking Gotham. A rusty Bat signal and a much more wiser Gordon. All in 15/20 minutes.

Then Gotham is pretty much ignored after that. At no point during the final battle or when Bane makes his televised speech or when Batman returns do we see any random Gothamite. It's just people we know I think this film needed a Gotham precense the most.

Precisely :up:

It's those major plot occurrences like Batman's return which should have sparked Gotham reaction. But we never saw it. It's all laid on the main characters whom we already know how they feel about all of this anyway. Yet the plot is about the people of Gotham, and they're the ones robbed of a voice.

No you're doing it wrong. A main character is a main character so they can't escape being involved in the main plotting of the flick can they. What are they gonna do pretend Bane and his cronies ain't there and be chattering about something else like the weather?

The magic of a movie is bringing in the little people who are not the main speak heads to show how it's affecting the city and showing the personality of the city with the minors. That's how Nolan did it the last two times. It was aces.

You can show me all the orphans and Cops and stock exchange snobs ya like. But when they ain't saying or doing anything then they might as well be oompa loompas.

Exactly. Showing the likes of the stock exchange people didn't add anything. All it did was show us people in Gotham City go the Stock Exchange. Which is obvious anyway when you have millionaires living in the city. Do we need to know there's religious people in Gotham by showing Sunday mass in a church, too? Because it would serve as much purpose as the stick exchange people did.

It's all about execution. One orphan saying he would like Batman to come back is as much of an insight we got from the Gotham people.
 
Yeah cos that's how they did it with Joker when he had them scared witless :whatever:


The magic of a movie is bringing in the little people who are not the main speak heads to show how it's affecting the city and showing the personality of the city with the minors. That's how Nolan did it the last two times. It was aces.

You seem to have ignored my post that answers this point. Here it is -

They were too much scared after his control of the City for five months.

TDKR+Robin.jpg


tumblr_m7hbkqzctC1ru90vgo1_1280.jpg


the-dark-knight-rises-christopher-nolan-600x399.jpg

The Bat symbols drawn across the city and the Orphan's discussions indicate a silent majority of Gotham's citizens were waiting for Batman to return.
 
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You seem to have ignored my post that answers this point. Here it is -



TDKR+Robin.jpg


the-dark-knight-rises-christopher-nolan-600x399.jpg

The Bat symbols drawn across the city and the Orphan's discussions indicate a silent majority of Gotham's citizens were waiting for Batman to return.

I didn't ignore it. I answered that one. People were scared of Joker and ya still got to see them being scared and panicked and what they thought of the situation. Same in Begins when things were so crappy and desperate in Gotham Nolan showed how desperate and crappy the people were and how it was affecting those little people. Ya heard what they thought about Batman causing a ruckus in Gotham.

Blake was the only one putting those stupid little chalk symbols on the wall cos he saw that little kid drawing one on the bench in the orphanage. That's where he got the idea from. He was the only one doing it. A main character. What a surprise.
 
I mean, if you think using the stock exchange just showed that they trade stocks, you're missing alot. They specifically use the people in the stock exchange to be people we as an audience don't like. They clearly are portrayed as the *****ebags in the 1%. Then Bane proceeds to take the money from the stock, representing those with all the wealth and power. He's using the stock exchange as a metaphor (which is why the claims that that is not how stock exchanges work is bogus. This is a film, and this is a brilliant way to visually represent this idea). Bane has symbolically and physically devalued their worth. It is not about robbing them, but making a statement that their monetary value means nothing. Also more evidence for Bane's LOS's motivation.


Frankly, I think your version of the movie would be a bigger mess, leaving (most of) us with tons of moments of, 'wow, that was unnecessary, we already got that point.' This is why common fans just aren't filmmakers, and the films are better for it for the most part.


I'll just repost this since you responded before my edit:

Fudge, I thought the point of the examples from BB was that they depicted the status of Gotham, and in that way, all three movies have done that with great aplomb. TDKR had to use more main characters to get these things across because there simply isn't enough time to start also relating to a few moments with Gotham's citizens. If anything, having them all be more or less principle characters and still manage to fill those roles is way more impressive writing than just using the image of citizens. BB's side characters were one dimensional pawns, there only to represent Gotham. In this film they do much more, using that representation of Gotham to then directly affect our protagonist, Bruce. Whether it works for you is personal preference, but from a filmmaking standpoint, it is simply a stronger and more efficient use of character to reach the same means.
 
I mean, if you think using the stock exchange just showed that they trade stocks, you're missing alot. They specifically use the people in the stock exchange to be people we as an audience don't like. They clearly are portrayed as the *****ebags in the 1%.

Ehhh no they didn't. What was so *****ey about them? *****ebags are someone like Mr. Earle or Reese.

Then Bane proceeds to take the money from the stock, representing those with all the wealth and power. He's using the stock exchange as a metaphor (which is why the claims that that is not how stock exchanges work is bogus. This is a film, and this is a brilliant way to visually represent this idea). Bane has symbolically and physically devalued their worth. It is not about robbing them, but making a statement that their monetary value means nothing. Also more evidence for Bane's LOS's motivation.

Yadda yadda yadda. The stock exchange was the plot device to get Bruce Wayne broke by stealing all those cods and for Batman to make his big comeback.

Frankly, I think your version of the movie would be a bigger mess, leaving (most of) us with tons of moments of, 'wow, that was unnecessary, we already got that point.'

Frankly I think the version we got was weaker and making more of the people of Gotham in a movie that is all about the people of Gotham would have been better instead of making up some far flung theory about Bane taking power by stealing some codes.

Bane's taking the power scene was when the bombs went off at the stadium.

This is why common fans just aren't filmmakers, and the films are better for it for the most part.

Says you.
 

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