Is the USA a pseudo-fascist state? (Police constantly abusing people)

[Soapy]

I never said anything about a "master plan". If you think police states can only come about as a result of some kind sinister plot, then I really don't know what to say.

And you're right. If my town got attacked, I would like to feel a sense of safety. But that sure as **** wouldn't come from a bunch of glorified armed thugs patrolling the streets, illegally entering and searching homes, setting up traffic checkpoints and such. When the response to terrorism is worse than the act itself, you know somewhere we ****ed up.

 

[NickNitro]

I never said anything about a "master plan". If you think police states can only come about as a result of some kind sinister plot, then I really don't know what to say.

And you're right. If my town got attacked, I would like to feel a sense of safety. But that sure as **** wouldn't come from a bunch of glorified armed thugs patrolling the streets, illegally entering and searching homes, setting up traffic checkpoints and such. When the response to terrorism is worse than the act itself, you know somewhere we ****ed up.

Yes, a man coming into your home to search it is worse than someone setting off a shrapnel bomb during a marathon. Killing/injuring innocent bystanders and runners.

 

[Soapy]

"A man", haha. You act like it's some "Officer Smiley" type dropping by for quick peek. In that instance? Yeah sure, a bomber would be worse. But we're not talking about that are we? In fact, I wasn't even talking about Boston at all, but whatever, I'll roll with it. We're talking about a militarized police force with armored vehicles, carrying assault rifles, many of them wearing balaclavas, all decked-out in black enacting what could more or less be considered martial law.

Perhaps you're comfortable with that, but I am not. I don't care if it was one bomb or ten. I'll never be okay with the type of response we saw to the Boston Bombing or Christopher Dorner.

 

[Victarion]

When you don't know if the culprits are part of a larger underground cell, I think the sort of lockdown they set up for the Boston bombers was appropriate. You're looking at the world in shades of black and white, Soapy. It doesn't work like that.

 

[Soapy]

I'm really not though. I'm not the one saying police should be able to do whatever they want, and implying that police states only exist in the minds of conspiracy theorists.

 

[Teelie]

Nope, you are. I'm not a fan of police overreaction but you're taking it to new levels of conspiracy.

 

[NickNitro]

When you don't know if the culprits are part of a larger underground cell, I think the sort of lockdown they set up for the Boston bombers was appropriate. You're looking at the world in shades of black and white, Soapy. It doesn't work like that.

Jesus Christ thank you, finally. I was hoping I wasn't alone in this.

I guarantee if this happened and it was all left to the local SWAT and police officers people would be on here *****ing that our government doesn't protect us when we need it and why the hell should we be paying tax dollars into a military that doesn't protect its own people, and are more concerned with issues over seas.

I am no means an advocate of police brutality, but this was a measure that needed to be taken during a situation that was barely under control for the first 48 hrs even with military help.

 

[Soapy]

Nope, you are. I'm not a fan of police overreaction but you're taking it to new levels of conspiracy.

What conspiracy? I very specifically stated the opposite.

 

[Teelie]

The conspiracy being that the country is headed into a facist police state. It doesn't have to be an organized group like you said but it still falls under that umbrella of seeing threats where no threats are to be found.

 

[Soapy]

Jesus Christ thank you, finally. I was hoping I wasn't alone in this.

Why would you even think that? I'll readily admit I'm in the minority. Most people obviously favor safety over liberty.

 

[NickNitro]

Yeah because the worlds ****ed up. You think I want our borders just opened to the world? Go look at countries where their government could give two ****s about them. Want to live there?

 

[Teelie]

I think most people want a compromise between the two of safety and liberty whereas you seem to see liberty above all else. That the country has strayed too much into safety over liberty does not mean the country has lost its liberty or that it cannot or will not pull back into a better medium between the two. The alternative is too much liberty and we get Florida or Texas.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The United States has the highest incarnation rates in the world, there is unprecedented surveillance, and the police are being militarized.

The Patriot Act is a terrible piece of legislation, and it's spawned similar legislation, like the expansion of the president's ability to declare martial law with H.R. 5122, and the NDAA of 2012, which actually allows for the indefinite detention of American citizens.

These are the facts. There is no conspiracy theory. Just reality, which is slowly dawning on people.

America is not a police state, but at this rate, you can't pretend like the development of a decidedly more authoritarian and less free state is an impossibility.

 

[Teelie]

And to act like this is irreversiable is to live in denial and a fantasy of some dystopian future.

 

[Spider-X]

Look at the response to the Boston Bombing. They put the city under martial law. They haven't done that since... the Revolution?

All that... for two college kids.

...using the example of the military descending on a small town in which they know 2 bombers/terrorists are holding up who set off a freaking bomb in a major city during a major event, sending limbs flying, killing 3, and seriously injuring 170 for the argument that we are losing our liberties for security on a grand scale in the US is freaking ridiculous.

ree-dick-you-lus.

Those were more than OK measures and they are not an example of grand scale militarization of the US. They did that to reduce collateral damage and then once they captured the goons, the military left.

A few folks in here really need to get some perspective.

 

[Victarion]

Why would you even think that? I'll readily admit I'm in the minority. Most people obviously favor safety over liberty.

My liberty's moot if I'm dead.

 

[Soapy]

The conspiracy being that the country is headed into a facist police state. It doesn't have to be an organized group like you said but it still falls under that umbrella of seeing threats where no threats are to be found.

The conspiracy being that the country is headed into a facist police state. It doesn't have to be an organized group like you said but it still falls under that umbrella of seeing threats where no threats are to be found.

I really don't think it's that "out there". I mean, I'm not pulling this stuff from my ass. It doesn't take a genius to see that over time (I'm talking decades, here.) the president, the government, intelligence organisations, the police, etc. have all been given (or taken, depending on how you want to view it) much more power than their predecessors. Partially as a result of more advanced technology, but mainly because of laws being passed and society accepting it and whatnot. It seems pretty logical to me to assume that trend will continue.

Let's just look at an example based around the president. The current president is more powerful than the one before him. And he was more powerful than the one before him. So on and so forth. What if the current president decides he wants to pass a law that will allow drones to be used on American soil to kill "domestic terrorists"? But it can only be used if the president says so. Maybe you trust the current president to use this new power judiciously, but that power doesn't disappear when he leaves office. The next president inherits it. And maybe you trust him (or her) too. And the next one after that. All the while, they're gaining extra powers of their own. But what happens when we get a president who maybe isn't so trustworthy and perhaps doesn't have such good judgement and is way too loose with his definition of "terrorist"?

That's just one minor example. And I know people will say, "But that's just theoretical! It's all made-up! You can't base anything on that!" Right, but as long as governing bodies, intelligence agencies, and police are accruing more and more powers over time, situations like that will happen. It's not a conspiracy, it's an inevitably. UNLESS things change and we stop allowing it.

Yeah because the worlds ****ed up. You think I want our borders just opened to the world? Go look at countries where their government could give two ****s about them. Want to live there?

What are you even talking about? No one was talking about the border.

I think most people want a compromise between the two of safety and liberty whereas you seem to see liberty above all else. That the country has strayed too much into safety over liberty does not mean the country has lost its liberty or that it cannot or will not pull back into a better medium between the two. The alternative is too much liberty and we get Florida or Texas.

They'll never do that. Not willingly at least. And honestly we shouldn't expect them to. It's only natural to try and keep the power you've been given.

What's wrong with Florida and Texas though? Did I miss something? Have they become lawless wastelands or something? I haven't been paying attention to the news.

 

[Figs]

The United States has the highest incarnation rates in the world, there is unprecedented surveillance, and the police are being militarized.

The Patriot Act is a terrible piece of legislation, and it's spawned similar legislation, like the expansion of the president's ability to declare martial law with H.R. 5122, and the NDAA of 2012, which actually allows for the indefinite detention of American citizens.

These are the facts. There is no conspiracy theory. Just reality, which is slowly dawning on people.

America is not a police state, but at this rate, you can't pretend like the development of a decidedly more authoritarian and less free state is an impossibility.

Damn right! So tired of people throwing the "conspiracy" label around on things that really aren't conspiracies if people would wake up to reality.

 

[The End]

The United States has the highest incarnation rates in the world, there is unprecedented surveillance, and the police are being militarized.

The Patriot Act is a terrible piece of legislation, and it's spawned similar legislation, like the expansion of the president's ability to declare martial law with H.R. 5122, and the NDAA of 2012, which actually allows for the indefinite detention of American citizens.

These are the facts. There is no conspiracy theory. Just reality, which is slowly dawning on people.

America is not a police state, but at this rate, you can't pretend like the development of a decidedly more authoritarian and less free state is an impossibility.

Great post.

 

[Defacto]

Looking at all those youtube videos of Police brutality and those "what to do when being stopped byt the police" videos, it does certainly look like US is almost like a police state.

 

[The End]

I mean, you have some of the posts in this thread where people say stuff like, its isolated, its the vast minority.

But like Thundercrack said, the US has the highest incarcaration rates in the world.

You look at New York, and the pain that stop and searches have been to people.

These are NOT trivial things.

 

[Teelie]

Non-trivial does not equal majority however.

 

[DirtyHarry]

It's really sad that the US has lost its balls. Whenever a terrorist attack happens, instead of saying "you will not scare us, we will continue to live the way we always have," the government passes numerous laws and taps everything.

 

[Thundercrack85]

...using the example of the military descending on a small town in which they know 2 bombers/terrorists are holding up who set off a freaking bomb in a major city during a major event, sending limbs flying, killing 3, and seriously injuring 170 for the argument that we are losing our liberties for security on a grand scale in the US is freaking ridiculous.

ree-dick-you-lus.

Those were more than OK measures and they are not an example of grand scale militarization of the US. They did that to reduce collateral damage and then once they captured the goons, the military left.

A few folks in here really need to get some perspective.

I think we agree on some folks needing to get some perspective, we just disagree on who those folks are.

This could have easily been handled by the FBI, maybe an ATF specialist, and the local police force. What happened in Boston just shows how out of control the situation has become.

Even the argument about collateral damage is weak. Shutting down the city (for a two person manhunt... which quickly became a one person manhunt) cost the city a billion dollars.

Martial law, 10,000+ men, countless cars, APCs, and helicopters for two stoners turned wannabe terrorists armed with crude pressure cooker bombs. No, that's totally proportional.

Meanwhile, in the real world, in 24 hours, about 50 people have been murdered, and 100+ have died in a car crashes, and we don't even bother to count the number of injuries.

What happened in Boston was terrible, but it was still a gross overreaction, which just illustrates the issue of militarization.

 

[Mike_D202]

Thundercrack85, I seriously doubt you'd be saying the things you are right now if your family or friends were killed or seriously injured in the Boston Bombings. Nobody knew they were "two college kids" when it happened, it was a terrorist bombing. Who knew if there were more bombs or how many bombers there were, they acted accordingly. How would YOU have handled the situation?